Advocating Kids to stand up for themselves!

[Specter]

Ok, last few weeks my stepson of 4 has been fighting at his daycare and on each incident we have had to fill in a incident report.

The first incident happened 2 weeks back when another kid for no reason threw a toy train at his face, he then stood up and punched the other kid squarely in the face(Quote:daycare teacher) which ended up in screaming and crying.

Second Incident involved him being pushed off a box he was standing on into some wooden building blocks on the ground (1 meter high) by a older bigger boy, to which he responded by picking up a plank of wood and hitting the other boy with it.(Witnessed by Daycare Teacher)

Third Incident was over the computer, day care Teacher says the other boy pushed him, so he hit him blah blah blah....anyway..he came home with scratches just below his eye and a chunk of skin half the size of a 10 cent coin scratched off the side of his face.

In every cirucmstance he only retaliated when infringed upon...and I have spoken to his daycare teachers to have them write up what proposals and plans they have in place to prevent this in the future besides just filling out stupid incident reports and letting things blow over(Still waiitng on that one).

My partner was at daycare the other day and apparantly the daycare teachers hit her up about her advocating him standing up for himself and hitting back and if I advocated it as well..

I havent had a chance to head back down to daycare yet to give them my view, but if our boy is picked on and the dumbarse daycare teachers cant prevent it before it starts then I pity the fool!

Thoughts anyone..anyone relate..similar experience..advice??

[olympia]

Have spent a bit of time around daycares ( no pedo ) and seen this happen a lot. And unfortunately its the kids who dont stand up for themselves that are the continuous victims. I also advocate retaliating and standing up for yourself or the bullies will walk all over you for the rest of your life. This is something i have talked to my son about many times as he being a smaller child is a target for the bigger kids to push him round. But he knows its ok to punch squarley to the nose , temple and throat provided the other child instigates it. I will also teach this to my daughters. But im getting them into powerlifting to keep them away from boys to lol.

[Specter]

Have spent a bit of time around daycares ( no pedo ) and seen this happen a lot. And unfortunately its the kids who dont stand up for themselves that are the continuous victims. I also advocate retaliating and standing up for yourself or the bullies will walk all over you for the rest of your life. This is something i have talked to my son about many times as he being a smaller child is a target for the bigger kids to push him round. But he knows its ok to punch squarley to the nose , temple and throat provided the other child instigates it. I will also teach this to my daughters. But im getting them into powerlifting to keep them away from boys to lol.

He use to get picked on when he was younger by a older boy and had bad nightmares to the point where he wet his bed a few times a night and cry when we dropped him off at daycare in the mornings. That kid would pick on the little ones also and I even witnessed him walk up to another parent and punch her in the hip and say(What are you gonna F&*%ing do about it?) The daycare couldnt or wouldnt do anything about it and at the time we were actually looking at other daycares to move him too, but the bully kid turned 5 and went off to primary school so the bullying stopped. I get out the focus pads at home and spend some time with getting him to punch the pads and not my head :pfft:

[vracula]

I feel bad for your little critter ,i say good on him to sort those little snorts out.

[justhell]

Try and get on top of it while they are young,i know kids are kids.

Let them know its not ok to hit anyone,as they grow older.

my sons 9 and im taking him back to school tomorrow after a 3 day stand down for fighting!Hes yellow belt at KungFu and really enjoys it. :nod:

But at the end of the day hes has got to control his anger,0-100 in 5 seconds.

Im all for sticking up for yourself.

[poos_n_wees]

My partner was at daycare the other day and apparantly the daycare teachers hit her up about her advocating him standing up for himself and hitting back and if I advocated it as well..

This part sounds ridiculous to me. Of course I'd advocate to my kids to stand up for themselves!

When these incidents happened, did the teacher talk to both sets of parents? Or just you guys?

Really feel for your stepson, sounds like a tough little guy.

[VampireChick]

I have an 11 year old brother who has been pushed around from time to time. I've always told him never to initiate any sort of violence, but if he is bullied or can see another weaker person being bullied, well by all means hit back! He saw another boy hit another young girl over the head so he walked over and pushed the bully to the ground (but nothing more). I praised him for it.

I'm encouraging him to take up kickboxing but he doesn't seem all that interested right now. Hopefully later on.

I feel for your little one though and I commend him for sticking up for himself.

[Daz69]

Good on him...........

Give him a treat for sticking up for himself....

And keep up the pad work................. :grin:

[legacy]

My boy was picked on in year 1. He is tall and solid for his age but a bit of a softie so was bullied around by a kid smaller than him. Got him along to JiuJitsu and he built up some confidence in himself again. The kid tried to push him over one day and got thrown to the ground by my boy,last time he had issues with the bully. The school grizzled but I told my boy if someone has a go at you then defend yourself.

[nemesis]

My oldest had similar issues at daycare years ago, getting picked on and when he defended himself he was reprimanded by the daycare "teachers". Unfortunatley I was working alot back then so had little idea of all this. Worse though, my wife went along with the whole ponsy pc crap of telling him "violence is never the answer" "just tell them NO, I dont like that!"

Result of this, years of my boy being bullied by kids smaller than him (who I know my son could dominate if his head wasn't so full of pansy doctrination. He's has been conditioned to avoid confrontation so much he allows others to bully him rather than defend himself.

His bloody mothers softness almost ruined him....almost!

Him and his younger brother have also been doing bjj now since start of the year and its had an amazing impowering effect on him. Just learning a few moves has been good, but its the forced sparing / rolling they do that has made him realise he's actually Preety good and nothing to fear from a little confrontation.

He's dealt with a couple of his "problems" at school already and is much happier in general.

I dont condone violence, but defence isnt violence in my book!

[severe]

The law supports the use of personal defense. They may be young, but there is no age restriction on it. Regardless of what people think.

Even though we are all talking about kids, if we give in to teh bleeding hearts, and make our kids accept bullying, we weaken them.

If your stepson doesn't have anger issues, or boundary issues, then he is not the problem. Their system that allows the instigator to be seen as the victim is what is wrong.

Bullshit bleeding hearts will tell you that two wrongs don't make a right, but one wrong still makes the initial victim feel like shit.

I have my kids stick up for themselves. I would rather they be in trouble for standing up for themselves, then imprint them with a 'take it and stay out of trouble' mindset.

As long as he stays cool with his ability to not fear the bully, and not become one himself, he is on the road to being a great man.

Nemesis has an outstanding post, too.

[tomsammce]

daycare.... such a hard life.

LOL @ (no pedo) hahaha

[HarryB]

It's a very hard one... my son started getting bullied when he started school and what I find with the bullies is often their parents won't action anything. One of the dads told me it was just boys being boys, so I asked him what he would do if I pushed him over and jumped on him... kind of changed his outlook.

I started my son doing karate and it lifted his confidence, plus I spent a lot of time telling him I would back him if he stood up for himself when he was being bullied but he had to follow the steps. I said... tell them to stop, tell the teacher.. then if they don't stop, push them over! He's a big kid but super gentle so it's not natural to him to fight like that but he now stands up for himself and for his mates.

It's very hard watching it when it's your children because emotionally you just want to go and bash everyone!!! Worse because you know the teachers find it hard to control those kids because their hands are tied and that kids parents clearly think what he's doing is ok..

Just back your kids always, if they know you're behind them then they aren't scared. Well mine aren't anyways...

[jimjim83]

It's a very hard one... my son started getting bullied when he started school and what I find with the bullies is often their parents won't action anything. One of the dads told me it was just boys being boys, so I asked him what he would do if I pushed him over and jumped on him... kind of changed his outlook.

I started my son doing karate and it lifted his confidence, plus I spent a lot of time telling him I would back him if he stood up for himself when he was being bullied but he had to follow the steps. I said... tell them to stop, tell the teacher.. then if they don't stop, push them over! He's a big kid but super gentle so it's not natural to him to fight like that but he now stands up for himself and for his mates.

It's very hard watching it when it's your children because emotionally you just want to go and bash everyone!!! Worse because you know the teachers find it hard to control those kids because their hands are tied and that kids parents clearly think what he's doing is ok..

Just back your kids always, if they know you're behind them then they aren't scared. Well mine aren't anyways...

Good advice for your boy. As much as giving the bully a bloody nose would feel great as a parent its also about teaching that you need to ask for help before resorting to violence.

My theory is Ask, Tell, Make. Which I use at work but can kind of be applied to this.

Ask them to stop.

Tell them to stop.

Make them stop. (might be going to teacher/parent first)

The same parents that dont give a f*ck that their kids is the bully are always the first to complain when their kid is on the receiving end.

[two_phat]

This is a really difficult question, and as a primary school teacher I see a lot of this sort of stuff. My two cents...

I have had a number of children in my class over the years who are what I would describe as passive and extremely non violent - however, they are never the victims of bullying. They have devised other effective strategies to deal with conflict situations. Perhaps you could look into teaching and talking through some other strategies with your son (or asking the teacher to teach them). It may seem like a cop out, but realistically you can't teach your son that it's ok to react with violence. Part of this comes from the pacifist inside me, the other is the simple fact that your child will get into trouble for reacting with violence. Why confuse a child with the expectations at school regarding violence and the ones you have at home.

Secondly, obviously within daycare, often children's first reaction to a conflict or undesirable situation is to become physical. This will obviously lessen as the children learn to harness and express their emotions better. This type of behaviour from other children should lessen as they grow older. If it continues I'd consider having a serious chat with the teachers about the fact they are not providing a safe environment for your child - it's their obligation to do so.

[HarryB]

This is a really difficult question, and as a primary school teacher I see a lot of this sort of stuff. My two cents...

I have had a number of children in my class over the years who are what I would describe as passive and extremely non violent - however, they are never the victims of bullying. They have devised other effective strategies to deal with conflict situations. Perhaps you could look into teaching and talking through some other strategies with your son (or asking the teacher to teach them). It may seem like a cop out, but realistically you can't teach your son that it's ok to react with violence. Part of this comes from the pacifist inside me, the other is the simple fact that your child will get into trouble for reacting with violence. Why confuse a child with the expectations at school regarding violence and the ones you have at home.

Secondly, obviously within daycare, often children's first reaction to a conflict or undesirable situation is to become physical. This will obviously lessen as the children learn to harness and express their emotions better. This type of behaviour from other children should lessen as they grow older. If it continues I'd consider having a serious chat with the teachers about the fact they are not providing a safe environment for your child - it's their obligation to do so.

It is interesting what you say but doesn't account for the huge number of children who don't learn effective coping strategies and feel like they have no one to turn to when they need help. Those are the kids who grow up with a low sense of self esteem and become disconnected from their authority figures. I definitely advocate as much open communication and dialogue with teachers, carers and other parents as you can manage but tell me... when your child comes running to you crying with a fat lip or a black eye... can you tell him/her they have no recourse of action but to go back the next day and play nice with the mean kid who did this while you wait for the establishment to deal with it. Remembering that teachers and daycare workers are powerless really in today's environment to actually deal with anything. Out with the feel sorry for the bullies crap, what the hell happened to discipline. So funny we baby them in the system... then that same 6 year old who bullies other kids, becomes a 16 year old running rampant with no respect for the law or authority, then he's 26 in jail crying how hard done by he is cos everyone is being so hard on him for stuff he has been able to get away with since he was.... 6!!!!!

Kids look to their parents and teachers for solutions and as a parent I feel redundant when I tell my child that the school are doing everything they can when I know I know they can't do anything at all really. So I tell him he can follow the right steps and I will always stand behind him. What more can you do... oh and for the record I am a pacifist also, violence isn't a solution to anything.. however in saying that, sometimes it is the only useful immediate response.

[two_phat]

Completely understand where you are coming from - however there is a huge difference from a child in daycare reacting violently to a 16 year old acting violently. I agree that it does start at a young age, but kids are kids - not all of them have the mental capability to harness their emotions in an appropriate way at that age. You do have to expect that every now and again there will be times when your child will be hurt by another child. It's what we choose to teach our children from the incident that's important. Although the "play nicely with the bully" ideology seems flawed, it isn't always. Ever noticed how clam, kind words often diffuse a persons anger within seconds? Perhaps a mix between this and being assertive (not aggressive) is the answer?

[HarryB]

Completely agree.. I am not thinking of the one off incidents that is normal at any stage of life. I am talking about the same people doing the same things day in and day out and I think respect starts young.

Calm words often work... but not always. How does a kid who's getting beat down become assertive? Why is the bully going to listen to him/her when they aren't listening to the authority figure in the room.

Anyway it is a hard one.

[nemesis]

This is a really difficult question, and as a primary school teacher I see a lot of this sort of stuff. My two cents...

I have had a number of children in my class over the years who are what I would describe as passive and extremely non violent - however, they are never the victims of bullying. They have devised other effective strategies to deal with conflict situations. Perhaps you could look into teaching and talking through some other strategies with your son (or asking the teacher to teach them). It may seem like a cop out, but realistically you can't teach your son that it's ok to react with violence. Part of this comes from the pacifist inside me, the other is the simple fact that your child will get into trouble for reacting with violence. Why confuse a child with the expectations at school regarding violence and the ones you have at home.

Secondly, obviously within daycare, often children's first reaction to a conflict or undesirable situation is to become physical. This will obviously lessen as the children learn to harness and express their emotions better. This type of behaviour from other children should lessen as they grow older. If it continues I'd consider having a serious chat with the teachers about the fact they are not providing a safe environment for your child - it's their obligation to do so.

I think this is subject to your deffinition of bullying to be honest. Those kids may not get picked on, physically accosted or taunted. But the dominant (bully) kids still impose their will over these kids do they not?

This makes your job easier I'm sure as you don't have to really deal with that problem, as you would if it was a case of actual "bullying'.

I think just because you may get in trouble latter in life for resorting to violence defending yourself, it's not a good enough reason to teach my boys they should NEVER resort to it, and in effect get used to being a victim of others who will. I've had to resort to violence many times in my life defending myself (and mostly others) and have never been "in trouble" for it. Lots of other things.......maybe, but never for violence. :oops:

As I think I said before, my job as dad is to teach my boys how to go off when when they're old enough and be successful men. No offence but your job as teachers is to teach them their times tables, etc.

I am sorry if this seems undiplomatic, but this is a subject I feel quite strongly about, as my boy (as well as I) was bullied and have seen the overall ineffectivness of the schools system to deal with the issue for the past 20 years!

I often have this same discussionwith my sister in law who is a long serving school teacher. She is of the same thinking that kids need to find "stratagies". but in my mind this is mearly a cop out and does nothing to address the problem of the BULLY!

anyway, I have to go and take my youngest son to daycare now. I beleive he will teach me a new side to this issue as he is the most aggresive of the 3 and could force me to revisit this from the other side. please no :pray:

[two_phat]

Actually our job isn't just to teach times table - our job is prepare our children for the world they are going to live. That includes relationships and getting on with others - part of the curriculum is devoted to that. Perhaps, your sister and I share the view because we encounter and have to deal with bullying a lot more than the average parent and have seen successful strategies (and unsuccessful ones too).

I completely understand how strongly you feel about this - seeing your child being bullied by another child must be incredibly infuriating.

Actually no, these children who have these strategies very rarely find themselves in situations which anybody could classify as bullying. They actually tend to pay less attention to aggressive behaviour. They tend to focus on solutions and compromise. The only question in my mind about these children is about whether their strategies can be effectively taught or whether most of it is innate; a part of their personality.

[nemesis]

And still more on compromise and working around the problem, but nothing to adress the actual problem! The bully!

Tomatoes - tamatoes. I'll stick to my way.

You may be a very good teacher? But as for the curriculum....I wish you (the general you being all teachers I mean) would spend more time focusing on times tables, etc and less on teaching my kid how to be a person in society, for which you are no more qualified than anyone else. Possibly less infact as you spend the majority of your time with children instead of adults. Sorry thats just churlish. But my point still stands.

[Lurker]

Your kid has some behavioural anger issues that you should get sorted and thats just from reading your side of the story.

Fine enough defending yourself, but if he can't learn proportionality and self control, it will end up in major grief later on in life.

[bigdan1978]

if we spent less time being pc and bowing down to others and their pussified beliefs , we would be better off.

I have two teenage boys both have been f'd with at school 1 year of muay thai for the 17 year old and a year of weights for the 14 year old , who by the way is in the first 15 and deadlifts 100kgs for reps and pow the h,mo bullies disperse.

once we leave the playground , life still reflects it, theres just no teachers, the same douche bag bullies still exist , I say f it if someone lays hands on you in your personal space whatever the age...guillotine choke them , or elbow strike their orbitol , or straight k.o them end of story...good on all your sons or daughters for sticking up for themselves.

[Daz69]

This is a really difficult question, and as a primary school teacher I see a lot of this sort of stuff. My two cents...

I have had a number of children in my class over the years who are what I would describe as passive and extremely non violent - however, they are never the victims of bullying. They have devised other effective strategies to deal with conflict situations. Perhaps you could look into teaching and talking through some other strategies with your son

What strategies are available that don't involve consciously avoiding any sort of eye, spoken or physical contact with the bully so as not to become the object of his violent actions......

Why should the innocent child not be able to get on & do what he wants whilst minding his own business.?

The problem is the Bully................ The Bully should be dealt with.

(or asking the teacher to teach them). It may seem like a cop out, but realistically you can't teach your son that it's ok to react with violence. Part of this comes from the pacifist inside me, the other is the simple fact that your child will get into trouble for reacting with violence.

Why..?

NZ Crimes Act 1961:

Section 48: Self defense & defense of another.

Every one is justified in using, in the defense of himself or another, such force as, in the circumstances as he believes them to be, it is reasonable to use.

Why confuse a child with the expectations at school regarding violence and the ones you have at home.

[nemesis]

Your kid has some behavioural anger issues that you should get sorted and thats just from reading your side of the story.

Fine enough defending yourself, but if he can't learn proportionality and self control, it will end up in major grief later on in life.

Hahaha really? You get that from my posts? That is.....interesting?!