1st cycle test enth/dbol

[maassive]

There will be a difference in blood levels between Sus & Cyp, if your pinning the same amount (375mg) once a week...because of the esters.........

I think the point here is not that one is better than the other, they work differently because of the esters. IMO Cyp needs to be pinned twice a week not once. You could get away with that with Sust (although some reckon you should pin that EOD to take advantage of the shorter esters). Cyp twice a week is pretty safe and standard for level blood.

Because of the inclusion of 4 differently releasing esters in Sustanon:

testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

And the difference in half lives: Propionate 2.25 days, phenylpropionate 2.25 days, iscaproate 4.5 days, decanoate 7.5 days (dependant on where you read it)....

You are best off pinning every other day because of the two quicker esters... But with less mg/injection....

I'm shite at maths so can't be arsed trying to work out optimum injection amounts & spacings to give steady blood levels on Sustanon...

With Enanthate (5.25 days) I'd pin every 5 days, or Cypionate (6 days) every 6 days, the full 375mg just for ease of working out .............

Don't think you need the Nolvadex with 375mg + Dbol @ 4 weeks...

Titan is all good high bloods have been reported recently with this product..

But Daz, isn't the idea of Sustanon that it is designed so that the half lives complement each other to provide steady release over a period of time. Yes the prop and phenylprop only lasts 2 days, but because this is not all that you are injecting there is no need to have a pin frequency set up to accomodate only these two. as the props are wearing off the isocap is still steady, and then as that wears off the deca is still steady...

Therefore, two pins per week is perfect for this.

I have never used sustanon so I do offer that as a caveat, however I think from what I have read that pining this EOD is overkill and a misunderstanding of what the drug is designed for.

Zyzz, see this links for more info.

http://www.steroid.com/Sustanon-250.php

[rovr4on]

so.....on a side note, when I was pinning yesterday, the mrs knocked over my sweet sweet vial and I lost like 1.5-3 weeks of juice. Because Im doing a 10 week cycle this really f**ks sh!t up.

If I get another vial and use half of it, can it be stored for 6 months with just the rubber seal? and would you recommend for last 6 weeks (as ill increase cycle to 12 weeks if i get another vial) that I increase to 400mg pw then taper down in last 2 weeks? thoughts?

Thanks guys

[Specter]

Cheers Riccardo good C*nt

Only bummer is that its $600 min order so better get the bros together and get my gear sorted.

The GAULS aka LN Pharma UG is no min order so if anybody has feedback on their gear would be much appreciated as $600 for me to come up with is quite steep.

Keep Pumping!!

Yeah dude..you dont go sprouting off the prices and names of your gear on a public forum

[Specter]

$600 min order? WTF... how expensive is it per vial? what a scam... there are plenty of guys on here and around that will sell you one vial of apollo or genuine empire for under $150... no need to be tricked into having to spend $600

Everyone is in for the money bro...extra costs come from getting it in..and admin costs! :wink:

[Daz69]

I think the point here is not that one is better than the other, they work differently because of the esters. IMO Cyp needs to be pinned twice a week not once. You could get away with that with Sust (although some reckon you should pin that EOD to take advantage of the shorter esters). Cyp twice a week is pretty safe and standard for level blood.

Because of the inclusion of 4 differently releasing esters in Sustanon:

testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

And the difference in half lives: Propionate 2.25 days, phenylpropionate 2.25 days, iscaproate 4.5 days, decanoate 7.5 days (dependant on where you read it)....

You are best off pinning every other day because of the two quicker esters... But with less mg/injection....

I'm shite at maths so can't be arsed trying to work out optimum injection amounts & spacings to give steady blood levels on Sustanon...

With Enanthate (5.25 days) I'd pin every 5 days, or Cypionate (6 days) every 6 days, the full 375mg just for ease of working out .............

Don't think you need the Nolvadex with 375mg + Dbol @ 4 weeks...

Titan is all good high bloods have been reported recently with this product..

But Daz, isn't the idea of Sustanon that it is designed so that the half lives complement each other to provide steady release over a period of time. Yes the prop and phenylprop only lasts 2 days, but because this is not all that you are injecting there is no need to have a pin frequency set up to accomodate only these two. Just as the props are wearing off the isocap is coming on strongest, and then as that wears off the deca is releasing at it's peak...

Therefore, two pins per week is perfect for this.

I have never used sustanon so I do offer that as a caveat, however I think from what I have read that pining this EOD is overkill and a misunderstanding of what the drug is designed for.

Zyzz, see this links for more info.

http://www.steroid.com/Sustanon-250.php

Hey Massive...

I've just done the rough (and it is rough) Maths on Sustanon....

Ignoring the weight of the esters, for ease of working out...

Injecting EOD by the 4th injection or day 8 blood levels should be "roughly" 86mg/day.... Pin every 4th day & it goes down to "roughly" 60mg/day..

From what I have been led to believe: All the esters start to release from day 1..... (or after all the receptor shite has been sorted)

So you get the largest dose in the first 2 days from Propionate 7.5mg/day & Phenylpropionate 15mg/day..............

Then Iscaproate 7.5mg/day for the next 4.5 days & Decanoate 6.?mg/day for the next 7.5 days.....

After day 2 Propionate reduces to 3.75mg/day & Phenylpropionate to 7.5mg/day...........

So from my "rough" reconing your bouncing Up & down by 11.25mg/day on the third day, before you pin again....

Whether this makes a huge difference in the scale of things I'm not too sure...

How it works for old cunts pinning once a month I can't work out..?

I've used Sustanon for years before I had any understanding of half-lives & pinned twice a week........

I think its a lot easier mathematically using Enanthate with a half-life of 5.25 days pinning every 5 days, when you're attempting steady blood levels.....

But I could be wrong...

[maassive]

Because of the inclusion of 4 differently releasing esters in Sustanon:

testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

And the difference in half lives: Propionate 2.25 days, phenylpropionate 2.25 days, iscaproate 4.5 days, decanoate 7.5 days (dependant on where you read it)....

You are best off pinning every other day because of the two quicker esters... But with less mg/injection....

I'm shite at maths so can't be arsed trying to work out optimum injection amounts & spacings to give steady blood levels on Sustanon...

With Enanthate (5.25 days) I'd pin every 5 days, or Cypionate (6 days) every 6 days, the full 375mg just for ease of working out .............

Don't think you need the Nolvadex with 375mg + Dbol @ 4 weeks...

Titan is all good high bloods have been reported recently with this product..

But Daz, isn't the idea of Sustanon that it is designed so that the half lives complement each other to provide steady release over a period of time. Yes the prop and phenylprop only lasts 2 days, but because this is not all that you are injecting there is no need to have a pin frequency set up to accomodate only these two. Just as the props are wearing off the isocap is coming on strongest, and then as that wears off the deca is releasing at it's peak...

Therefore, two pins per week is perfect for this.

I have never used sustanon so I do offer that as a caveat, however I think from what I have read that pining this EOD is overkill and a misunderstanding of what the drug is designed for.

Zyzz, see this links for more info.

http://www.steroid.com/Sustanon-250.php

Hey Massive...

I've just done the rough (and it is rough) Maths on Sustanon....

Ignoring the weight of the esters, for ease of working out...

Injecting EOD by the 4th injection or day 8 blood levels should be "roughly" 86mg/day.... Pin every 4th day & it goes down to "roughly" 60mg/day..

From what I have been led to believe: All the esters start to release from day 1..... (or after all the receptor shite has been sorted)

So you get the largest dose in the first 2 days from Propionate 7.5mg/day & Phenylpropionate 15mg/day..............

Then Iscaproate 7.5mg/day for the next 4.5 days & Decanoate 6.?mg/day for the next 7.5 days.....

After day 2 Propionate reduces to 3.75mg/day & Phenylpropionate to 7.5mg/day...........

So from my "rough" reconing your bouncing Up & down by 11.25mg/day on the third day, before you pin again....

Whether this makes a huge difference in the scale of things I'm not too sure...

How it works for old cunts pinning once a month I can't work out..?

I've used Sustanon for years before I had any understanding of half-lives & pinned twice a week........

I think its a lot easier mathematically using Enanthate with a half-life of 5.25 days pinning every 5 days, when you're attempting steady blood levels.....

But I could be wrong...

Ok - interesting point mate. I'm not sure now. I wonder what MNZ has to say about this?

[rovr4on]

so.....on a side note, when I was pinning yesterday, the mrs knocked over my sweet sweet vial and I lost like 1.5-3 weeks of juice. Because Im doing a 10 week cycle this really f**ks sh!t up.

If I get another vial and use half of it, can it be stored for 6 months with just the rubber seal? and would you recommend for last 6 weeks (as ill increase cycle to 12 weeks if i get another vial) that I increase to 400mg pw then taper down in last 2 weeks? thoughts?

Thanks guys

[maassive]

There will be a difference in blood levels between Sus & Cyp, if your pinning the same amount (375mg) once a week...because of the esters.........

I think the point here is not that one is better than the other, they work differently because of the esters. IMO Cyp needs to be pinned twice a week not once. You could get away with that with Sust (although some reckon you should pin that EOD to take advantage of the shorter esters). Cyp twice a week is pretty safe and standard for level blood.

Because of the inclusion of 4 differently releasing esters in Sustanon:

testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

And the difference in half lives: Propionate 2.25 days, phenylpropionate 2.25 days, iscaproate 4.5 days, decanoate 7.5 days (dependant on where you read it)....

You are best off pinning every other day because of the two quicker esters... But with less mg/injection....

I'm shite at maths so can't be arsed trying to work out optimum injection amounts & spacings to give steady blood levels on Sustanon...

With Enanthate (5.25 days) I'd pin every 5 days, or Cypionate (6 days) every 6 days, the full 375mg just for ease of working out .............

Don't think you need the Nolvadex with 375mg + Dbol @ 4 weeks...

Titan is all good high bloods have been reported recently with this product..

where'd u get these values for the half lives? Mine are different...

[olympia]

so.....on a side note, when I was pinning yesterday, the mrs knocked over my sweet sweet vial and I lost like 1.5-3 weeks of juice. Because Im doing a 10 week cycle this really f**ks sh!t up.

If I get another vial and use half of it, can it be stored for 6 months with just the rubber seal? and would you recommend for last 6 weeks (as ill increase cycle to 12 weeks if i get another vial) that I increase to 400mg pw then taper down in last 2 weeks? thoughts?

Thanks guys

Oh dude !!! And people wonder why women live longer than men. Just get another vial and use it up i reckon. How are you feeling overall at the moment? Have you noticed big strength increases?

[tomsammce]

so.....on a side note, when I was pinning yesterday, the mrs knocked over my sweet sweet vial and I lost like 1.5-3 weeks of juice. Because Im doing a 10 week cycle this really f**ks sh!t up.

If I get another vial and use half of it, can it be stored for 6 months with just the rubber seal? and would you recommend for last 6 weeks (as ill increase cycle to 12 weeks if i get another vial) that I increase to 400mg pw then taper down in last 2 weeks? thoughts?

Thanks guys

it can be stored for years bro, no problems.

[Daz69]

I think the point here is not that one is better than the other, they work differently because of the esters. IMO Cyp needs to be pinned twice a week not once. You could get away with that with Sust (although some reckon you should pin that EOD to take advantage of the shorter esters). Cyp twice a week is pretty safe and standard for level blood.

Because of the inclusion of 4 differently releasing esters in Sustanon:

testosterone propionate - 30 mg, testosterone phenylpropionate - 60 mg, testosterone isocaproate - 60mg, and testosterone decanoate -100 mg.

And the difference in half lives: Propionate 2.25 days, phenylpropionate 2.25 days, iscaproate 4.5 days, decanoate 7.5 days (dependant on where you read it)....

You are best off pinning every other day because of the two quicker esters... But with less mg/injection....

I'm shite at maths so can't be arsed trying to work out optimum injection amounts & spacings to give steady blood levels on Sustanon...

With Enanthate (5.25 days) I'd pin every 5 days, or Cypionate (6 days) every 6 days, the full 375mg just for ease of working out .............

Don't think you need the Nolvadex with 375mg + Dbol @ 4 weeks...

Titan is all good high bloods have been reported recently with this product..

where'd u get these values for the half lives? Mine are different...

There's a lot of misinformation regarding the correct half-lives, which kinda screws things up when your trying to work out steady blood levels....

[maassive]

There's a lot of misinformation regarding the correct half-lives, which kinda screws things up when your trying to work out steady blood levels....

sure - but where do you get your values?

[rovr4on]

Hey guys, in getting my wisdom teeth out due to infection. Will any of anesthetics react badly with test enth? I understand my blood will be thinner? Any help would be appreciated

[HafeKasi]

Hey guys, in getting my wisdom teeth out due to infection. Will any of anesthetics react badly with test enth? I understand my blood will be thinner? Any help would be appreciated

Sorry can't answer your question but for your own safety better off notifying the doctors of whatever your having you can't get in shit because of the patient doctor confidentiality laws but better to be safe than sorry bro

[samoan_muscle]

Hey guys, in getting my wisdom teeth out due to infection. Will any of anesthetics react badly with test enth? I understand my blood will be thinner? Any help would be appreciated

Sounds like a typical noob question to me.

Do you someone with naturally high testosterone levels should inform the doctor that he has high test before being anesthetized?

[rovr4on]

Hey anyone know about the above? A little nervous.

Thanks guys

[thatwaslight]

You have nothing to worry about mate.

[tikalosh]

ppl on warfarin/aspirin or antiplatelet meds can have their wizzies taken out without any bleeding issues, thus roids shouldn't b an issue, just gotta take the right precautions, dentist might chuck in some sutures/clotting agent/clotting mouthrinse if u ask him, he should normally check that bleeding has stopped before letting u off. Shouldnt have any issues with anaesthetic reactions with gear too

[rovr4on]

thanks tika,

played hockey and broke my thumb :evil: so in a full arm cast at the moment. Had my last pin on sat so just going to hit the legs hard and stop with cycle...was on for about 6 weeks (8 including half life of test). Next cycle think I will just do 500mg pw for 12 weeks. Anyone know how long before I can start next cycle? a month over to build up strength in arm long enough? and for my hormones to get used to naturally producing again?

Thanks guys...fucking bullshit...was up 6kgs as well :cry: haha

[maassive]

Hey all - I'm back from my op so may drop in a comment here although I imagine it's too late.

Rov, Test shouldn't affect anesthetic, I pinned the day before my op and continued cruising right through - no problem. There is a problem with Nolva however, as it has been seen to cause blood clots especially in post op patients who are immobile. Teeth won't be a problem, but from a safety first perspective, might be wise not to dose excessively.

[rovr4on]

Hey lads,

Just started first cycle again, as last one got injured a few weeks in. Doing test enth (apollo) and dbol frontload and maybe some dbol at the 10 week depending on how I feel.

Currently at 8% BF so about 6-8% less than what I was on last time. Pinning 1ml every 3rd day, into second week now.

Currently havnt really changed my workout routine in some time and now that Im on id like to make a few changes for maximum results. current routine looks like this

Back n Tris:

deads

Lat pull down

barbell row

cable row

dips

closegrip bench

tri pushdown

Chest n bis

Incline dumbell

Flat bench

Decline bench

dips (leaning foward)

pec dec

seated dumbell curls suppersetted with hammers

concentration curls

leg day 1:

squats

decline leg press

seated and standing calf raises

Leg day 2:

Leg extensions

lying hammy machine

seated and standing calf raises

weighted lunges

Shoulders n traps

dumbell shrugs

smith machine shrugs

ove head press

smith machine seated press

a couple of other shoulder exercises with dumbells

Would really like some advice as to what you think I should change while im on? as mentioned before I have been doing this for some time and want good exercise while cycling?

Really appreciate your 2c

Chur

[I Declare War]

I'd drop the dbol as you're still very new to the juice game.

Get a good feel for the test and make some solid gains.

Dbol will make your strength go up too much and you run the risk of injuring yourself like last time. Also, you don't know if you are gyno prone yet. Doing test only will give you a good introduction.

[rovr4on]

last time I went for 6 weeks, dbol for first 5-6 with no gyno. So confident im not sensitive (will soon see) injury was from hockey, taking a whack on the hand. Broke a few bones...

Will be smart re: increasing weight

just want some advice re the changing a few non compound exercises suited for what im doing...thanks for the advice tho IDW

[kaws]

Sorry to bring up an oldish thread but is 250mg of test e per week considered quite a low dose for a beginner? everyone i have talked to has said to take 500mg per week first time. Thoughts? thanks in advance

[Android]

Sorry to bring up an oldish thread but is 250mg of test e per week considered quite a low dose for a beginner? everyone i have talked to has said to take 500mg per week first time. Thoughts? thanks in advance

It can be these days.

I can feel good on 200mg/week, but feel better on 400mg/week.

My very first cycle was 1ml of 50mg Testo L.A (Vet-grade Cyp) twice a week, pyramid up to 2ml of 50mg (1ml Testo L.A, 1ml oil-based DBol) twice a week, then up to 3ml twice a week...then pyramid back down.

Weeks 1 & 2 100mg per week.

Weeks 3 & 4 200mg per week.

Weeks 5, 6, 7, 8 300mg per week.

Weeks 9 & 10 200mg per week.

Weeks 11 & 12 100mg per week.

Never lost an ounze of the 8kg gain coming off with no PCT.

Back then if someone was doing 2ml of Sus250 a week on their first cycle they grew freakishly fast but they also lost alot of that size at the end. No biggie in that though they still gained overall so win-win.

Up to you, do you wanna grow fast...or super fast? :pfft: