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Overtraining & Undereating

ThePman

By ThePman
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ThePman Senior member

ThePman

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Skipped yesterday for no real reason. Got busy and just felt like chilling, so I did.

4-July

Squats, up to 150 / 2 singles, 140x5, 150, 155, 160 (all no-no-no)

Front Squats, 120 / 3 singles, 125 rolled off my clavicles at the bottom

Push Press, 80 / 7 singles

misc sets for gunz

Good sleep last night and felt really recovered today.

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ThePman Senior member

ThePman

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i need more core work! :nod: :pfft: :pfft:

Somebody say more squats?

5-July

Squats, up to 150 raw, 160, 170, 160x2 belted

Close-grips, up to 100x3, 110 / 8 singles, 100 / 2 triples

Chins, +25 / 4 triples, +30x2, +35x2

BW hanging just under 85. The 170 and last rep on 160 were both head-asplode grinders.

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teamfatboy Veteran member

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And that kid of Broz's just hit a 182.5 front squat.

its gotta be the hair!?

Yep, that'll be it.... off to go add Rogaine to my stack.

Nice work, M.... inspirational to watch the approach you're taking and hear how it's working for you.

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ThePman Senior member

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more vids :nod:

any niggles bro...been rolling a while now.

Everything is humming along better than ever. Only thing worth a mention is this mild spasm in my right glute that goes off every so often, but as far as injuries or crippling pain, it's all smooth like butta.

I'm gonna be stoked when the top sets hit 180 again.

Nice work, M.... inspirational to watch the approach you're taking and hear how it's working for you.

I'm all about the public service :lol:

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ThePman Senior member

ThePman

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Kudos to drizzt for showing me this awesome log!

- Quick question: Why so much DL'ing? Isn't that contrary to Broz' protocol?

I'm not doing Broz's exact protocol. This is more like a "Broz inspired" workout.

My rationale is that, as I'm not pulling the way Broz's OLers do, with lots of heavy snatching and cleaning, I need to make up the deficit somewhere along the way. In the past, squatting has always been a great driver of my deadlift (so that when the squat's going up, so is the pull) but the caveat is that I need some reasonably heavy pulling to go along with it.

The deadlifting is "heavy" in the sense that there's a good chunk of weight on the bar but it's not challenging in the sense of real maximum efforts or grinding reps. And importantly, it's been working, so I'm not gonna argue.

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ThePman Senior member

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7-July

Squats (no-no-no), up to 160 / 2 singles, 150x2, 160

Front Squats, 120 / 3 singles, 125 / 2 singles and a dropped bar

Push Press, 80 / 5 doubles

Front Squats may need a workout or two of their own to improve again.

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hamudenben Member

hamudenben

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...

I'm not doing Broz's exact protocol. This is more like a "Broz inspired" workout.

My rationale is that, as I'm not pulling the way Broz's OLers do, with lots of heavy snatching and cleaning, I need to make up the deficit somewhere along the way.

Makes sense.

The deadlifting is "heavy" in the sense that there's a good chunk of weight on the bar but it's not challenging in the sense of real maximum efforts or grinding reps. And importantly, it's been working, so I'm not gonna argue.

Okay - cool. So you're not doing DL like SQ? That is, going for a TRM every time you do them.

Another thing, how did you ramp it up? Meaning, did you do 3 weeks of 3x, then 3 weeks of 4x, ..., and finally ended up squatting 6x/wk ?

Right now my plan is to do another 40 days of GVT and then maybe do some sort of my own tailor-made version of Broz' concept for Crossfit. I guess that'll look pretty much like his Strongman proposal: Loads of squatting, some power cleans & snatches, push presses and jerks and actual workouts 2-3x per months. I don't know whether you're know about CrossFit or not. If no, sorry for spamming. If yes, what would your proposal look like? Do you reckon that an athlete would need more metabolic-conditioning (as in, HIIT running sessions 2-3x/week)?

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ThePman Senior member

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Okay - cool. So you're not doing DL like SQ? That is, going for a TRM every time you do them.

Oh lawds no :lol:

I have ideas on how you could make daily maxing work with deadlifts but it would mean sacrificing the daily squats. You might have to squat only three times a week and keep two of those days light.

What I'm doing here is basically "speed" pulls. "Speed" isn't the right word but it's easier than saying explosive and crisp reps. Lots of singles, weight pretty heavy, but not taking any grinding attempts.

Another thing, how did you ramp it up? Meaning, did you do 3 weeks of 3x, then 3 weeks of 4x, ..., and finally ended up squatting 6x/wk ?

The way I figured, if I was going to do it, I was just going to do it. I'm already pretty well conditioned to training often (3-4x/week for squats was pretty average for me over the last 5-6 years) so adding a couple extra days wasn't that big a deal. I just started showing up every day and doing what I could. After a few weeks you get over the soreness and it becomes normal.

I really have two minds on breaking into it. The first is what you mentioned, getting used to it step by step. I think if you're not used to the frequency, this would be the best way to do it. What you're going to find is that the simple act of showing up and training every day, no matter what weight you're using, will kick your ass for the first couple of weeks. You could be squatting 60kg every day and you'd still feel "not recovered" simply because you're not used to squatting under weight that often. And a lot of people will notice that three or four sessions a week is still enough to trigger some pretty considerable progress.

The other options is to just dive in with both feet and let the adaptation happen. I'd really advise against this unless you've got some kind of frequency-experience first, and you have an idea of how you'd respond to it. If you're coming from an all-or-nothing mindset, where each workout is to the death, this kind of training will screw with your head like nothing you've ever done. You really have to be in tune with yourself and not be afraid to stop at the first signs of fatigue. Coming in with the typical bodybuilding or powerlifting mindset of CRUSH IT OR ELSE is a guarantee that you'll be done inside two weeks. Daily training is about hitting it calm and relaxed and letting the gains come to you.

Right now my plan is to do another 40 days of GVT and then maybe do some sort of my own tailor-made version of Broz' concept for Crossfit. I guess that'll look pretty much like his Strongman proposal: Loads of squatting, some power cleans & snatches, push presses and jerks and actual workouts 2-3x per months. I don't know whether you're know about CrossFit or not. If no, sorry for spamming. If yes, what would your proposal look like? Do you reckon that an athlete would need more metabolic-conditioning (as in, HIIT running sessions 2-3x/week)?

If I were trying to adapt this for getting in shape, I'd probably do something like that strongman template, and then follow the strength work with short and intense conditioning after the fact. Anaerobic endurance isn't too different from strength in how it responds, so lots of brief and hard but non-fatiguing mini-sessions would probably fit well -- I'm thinking sled drags, KB swings, the rower, things of that nature.

The trick with all of this is to remember that you're coming back tomorrow, so you only need a little dose on any given day. Lots of small doses add up to a big effect. As with the strength work, pushing yourself to exhaustion and motivated PR attempts is a recipe for disaster.

The biggest complaint I can make about Crossfit (besides the above) is trying to incorporate highly technical movements (cleans, snatches, box jumps) into inherently fatiguing circuits. Keep the strength and skill away from the endurance and you should be fine.

HIIT and hill sprints and such will depend on how well you can recover from the other work. I have no first-hand experience with this. My gut says that lots of squats plus lots of sprints is not a good idea, but so many of my assumptions have changed lately that I have no idea how this would play out if you tried it. All I can say is be conservative and titrate upwards as performance allows.

Alternate front and back squats, up to a daily max for 2-3 attempts

Alternate Power Cleans and Snatches up to a daily max for 3-5 attempts

Alternate Push Press with Jerks, same as the clean (maybe clean & jerk and then snatches with push presses? Lots of options here)

10-20 minutes of heavy sled work or KB swings (and maybe 2-3 sprint sessions, depending on how you respond)

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ThePman Senior member

ThePman

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8-July

Squats, up to 160 rawdawg, belt on, 170, 175 / 2 singles, 160x2

Close-grips, 110 / 2 singles, 115 / 4 singles, 110 / 4 singles

Chins, +30 / 5 triples

BW was a bit down, 84.4 or thereabouts. As long as the squats keep going up I'm happy :lol:

Wrote up a blog about all this daily training stuff, given some of the negativity that Broz seems to generate.

http://www.ampedtraining.com/2011/stren ... -find-gems

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hamudenben Member

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Oh lawds no :lol:

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Big up for the answers. Much appreciated.

2 questions:

1) The alternation of pressing movements would you suggest doing them 6x-7x/wk, too? I can imagine doing PC and PS everyday, but combining that picture with daily max attempts at PP and PJ - wouldn't it mess up my shoulders? I'm asking because Broz' recommendation is 3x/wk or every other day for the pressing movement (since it targets more "local" and smaller muscles).

2) For the back-off work would you incorporate it after every exercise. That is, squat to TRM then B-O sets, PC to TRM then B-O and finally PP to TRM then B-O ? Or would you just do: Squat to TRM, PC to TRM and PP to TRM, and then 30-50 reps of squat? Reason why I'm asking is simply that 90-150 reps AFTER attempting TRMs = me being in the gym for a minimum of 2 hours. Not that I wouldn't love it. It just don't seem linkable with a "normal" life (what ever that is) and training 6x/wk.

Again - thank you loads!

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hamudenben Member

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...

1) The alternation of pressing movements would you suggest doing them 6x-7x/wk, too? I can imagine doing PC and PS everyday, but combining that picture with daily max attempts at PP and PJ - wouldn't it mess up my shoulders? I'm asking because Broz' recommendation is 3x/wk or every other day for the pressing movement (since it targets more "local" and smaller muscles).

...

I guess this part of your article answers my first question:

"Even my poor shoulders, which have long stunted my bench strength, cooperate more when I load them six days a week."

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