Supplementation for Health of Enhanced Athletes

[nate225]

I thought this might be a good topic to start due to the fact a lot of guys (and possibly girls) take the information from here (sometimes its good, othertimes dubious) and launch into their first AAS cycles without considering other 'big picture' aspects.

Most users (I hope! :grin: ) consider nutrition before using drugs, often at such a basic level as ensuring they get enough protein to assist with the increased nitrogen retention offered by many AAS.

However Android's comment re: B12 injections got me thinking whether diet & supplements could also play a role in pro-actively ensuring enhanced athletes could maintain optimal health.

In a thread on another forum (relating to minimum supplementation for strength athletes) an Australian doctor (and Strongman competitor) made the the following statement directed at those athletes who used AAS.

A note for the assisted (and I don't mean bench shirts and squat suits):

It is fairly clear that long term side effects are massively overstated in general but it would be a really good idea to make sure you load up on fish oil - androgens enhance blood clotting and drop your HDL (which effectively increases "bad" LDL) - both things which fish oil is an effective "antidote" for.

Milk thistle etc - a clean diet and plenty of water will probably be as useful for detoxifying the liver.

He also had the following to say about aspirin:

Burts capillaries shouldn't worry you from a point of view of clots.

Anything that size is filtered by the lungs quite well - as long as you don't have a natural/inherited tendency to form larger clots.

75-100mg aspirin a day would be plenty for those reasons - and as mentioned - there is no hard data, particularly in regard to studies anywhere near the size for aspirin (though those are usually on the back of other drugs that companies have a profit margin for) for fish oil as being the same - it is known to have a similar effect - ie it stops platelets in blood sticking together.

I would take a bit more aspirin before a flight (longer than four hours or so) to be safe but the risks are very small.

I note the research for/against low dose aspirin is conflicting, so choose your position!

I would suggest a starting point for enhanced athletes wanting to look after their health might be to add fish oils (to manage cholestrol/clotting/anti-inflam) and low dose aspirin (to manage clotting).

Another well educated friend suggested plant sterols should be included in the diet of enhanced athletes to try and decrease the negative impact on HDL ('good cholestrol'). I haven't researched this further but if anyone knows more.

My dietitian pal explained to me how using different types of oils (mono / poly unsaturated) you could influence total cholestrol levels & specifically HDL levels. Unfortunately I can't remember all the details but this may be worth considering if you are an AAS user who has cholestrol issues.

Salt intake would likely be a factor when planning a diet if you suffer from high blood pressure when on cycle. Increased water retention might be great for strength, but high blood pressure puts you at risk from a lot of potentially fatal conditions. Kidney damage is one thing that springs to mind as do strokes.

Keen to hear others thoughts in this area as well as links to research validating any claims - hopefully if we can pull enough information together we could put a guide together?

Nate

[HarryB]

Good one Nate. Definitely something that we could all use more info on. Will be reading with interest.

[nate225]

Good one Nate. Definitely something that we could all use more info on. Will be reading with interest.

Call it my civic sense of duty to our enhanced friends!

Of note the doctor I quoted to is a natty, would be good to find someone with a medical or nutritional (western evidenced based please!) that uses or even a researcher with interest in this area.

[musclenz]

Cholesterol gets a bum rap from conventional medicine. Hell, testosterone & a number of hormones are made from it. Don't knock it, you need plenty :pfft:

[train hard]

anyone take milk thistle ?

[Daz69]

anyone take milk thistle ?

Recomended if you're on orals..............................

[nate225]

anyone take milk thistle ?

Recomended if you're on orals..............................

Have heard this from a very experienced user who didn't want to post.

[Android]

Used milk thistle on my first cycle with orals...it felt like I had been kicked in the side so I was concerned.

Since that cycle I've not had the same symptons so have never taken it since. I don't go over 4-6 weeks on orals though except when on Winny which is 6-8 weeks before a show...perhaps I should.

I hope my liver is ok, blood tests inidcate that it is if that means anything.

Personally I don't think a herb can help 100% with sustained chemical abuse like orals, but I've no science to back that up...and haven't seen science to back up the claim that is does. There is evidence milk thistle protects the liver, but I've not seen a trial where they use dbols. If I do see a successful trial I will go back to milk thistle

[HarryB]

I have heard a lot about different herbs etc that guys use. I am probably a bit like Android in that I go by my blood work when it comes to recovery from cycles. I never notice anything dramatic in terms of elevation of liver or kidney enzymes or any decrease in function so I don't worry too much about it. I will take milk thistle after a course and saw palmetto just as some kind of "mental" insurance. I figure it's cheap as chips and can't hurt so why not!

[Daz69]

anyone take milk thistle ?

Recomended if you're on orals..............................

Have heard this from a very experienced user who didn't want to post.

So did I but didn't want to mention it................. :pfft:

[rovr4on]

Recomended if you're on orals..............................

Have heard this from a very experienced user who didn't want to post.

So did I but didn't want to mention it................. :pfft:

.

I know milk thistle is good for the liver and kidneys etc, but why wouldnt you want to mention it when taking orals? is there a bad side to the thistle??

[samoan_muscle]

Have heard this from a very experienced user who didn't want to post.

So did I but didn't want to mention it................. :pfft:

.

I know milk thistle is good for the liver and kidneys etc, but why wouldnt you want to mention it when taking orals? is there a bad side to the thistle??

My very very very limited understanding leads me to believe that milk thistle helps to protect /repair / decrease liver values.

Some use thistle whilst on a cycle of c17aa orals to achieve the above.

Some say milk thistle decreases the effectiveness of the oral if beings used together however Im not sure how true this is.

[nate225]

So in summary:

Fish oils - to manage cholestrol/clotting/anti-inflam

Aspirin - to manage clotting

Milk thistle when on 17aa's - to manage hepatic impacts

Manipulating oil types (polys/monos) - to manage cholestrol (DETAILS ANYONE??)

What about other common sides like increased blood pressure & acne, any supplements that could help?

Also prostate protection? Have heard of Saw Palmetto having some effects here but don't know much about it?

I'm aiming for an award for my services to the community in saving hapless AAS users from an early demise! :pfft: :grin:

[PeterDolan]

I've read Hawthorne Berry and Taurine is good for managing BP but not sure on how this would relate to AAS use, I think what I read related more to diet induced or genetically high BP

[Chemo]

I always knew you cared nate <3

Could possibly list of some life-extension type supps

Resveratrol

CoQ10

Ginger is also a good anti inflam and blood thinner.

[musclenz]

So in summary:

Fish oils - to manage cholestrol/clotting/anti-inflam

Aspirin - to manage clotting

Milk thistle when on 17aa's - to manage hepatic impacts

Manipulating oil types (polys/monos) - to manage cholestrol (DETAILS ANYONE??)

What about other common sides like increased blood pressure & acne, any supplements that could help?

Also prostate protection? Have heard of Saw Palmetto having some effects here but don't know much about it?

I'm aiming for an award for my services to the community in saving hapless AAS users from an early demise! :pfft: :grin:

Thank You Sir Nathan :roll:

[musclenz]

There are plenty of studies done on the effectiveness of Milk Thistle in reducing hepatic liver values. A Google search on "milk thistle effects on hepatic values in the liver" will bring up lots of information. No you are not likely to find how it works in controlling 17aa orals but I would suggest these will not knock your values like say Hep C or Cirrhosis. These puts the values up into the thousands & you would need to take a shit load of Dbol for a long period of time just to get anywhere near those numbers.

[Hone]

Currently on a strength cycle of injectable methyl tren and oxys with a test base. These compounds are quite harsh not only on the liver but also blood pressure and LDL values. The following supplementation is what I am taking while on this cycle.

For blood pressure using a combination of cranberry juice, celery seed extract and aspirin. Beetroot juice is good as well.

To help my LDL values (cholesterol) I'm taking Niacin. Found out what the Niacin flush was wondered what the hell was going on with my body turning bright red and prickly heat all over my body as well. Was pleased when I realized what it was and nothing to do with cocking up the methyl tren dose :nod: Coenzyme Q10 is also good for both BP and cholesterol values.

For Liver support I am using Liver 52 from Himalaya, great product. Also taking Silymarin capsules.

I also have some perscription meds on hand for blood pressure and cholesterol levels should I need them.

[Optimass]

... not really a big fan of suplements but one that many probably havent considered is PYCNOGENOL.

My father before he passed away had a lot of heart concerns and as a result of some conditions had visible blood vessels on his cheeks that had been there for years. 2 weeks after using Pycnogenol (from Grape seed extract) they were gone and his health improved significantly.

There was a company some years ago called life plus that was trying to establish a network marketing business here and they had this DVD presentation which showed the clinical human trials completed using Pycnogenol. One of the image sets used was a slide with red blood cells that had clumped together due to being oxidized. They then treated the patient with a dose of the product and 2 days later the red blood cells tested had unbinded. (Quite amazing for such a short time).

Anti-oxidants are probably the most under-estimated, under utilised supplements on the market - more important IMO than vitamin supplementation.

Oxidisation occurs due to toxins being absorbed into your body throughout the day - through diet/air/nutrition/second hand smoke etc etc ...

If you blood cells clump together due to oxidative stress as a result of AAS use and the extreme nature of the foods we eat then an antioxidant should be one of the first supps to look at --- if your that way inclined.

Google "anti-oxidant" . "free radical" for more info ... also "pycnogenol"

What is Pycnogenol?

PYCNOGENOL is the brand name for an extract made from the Maritime pine tree. You can also get grape seed extract, which has similar properties to the extract from the Maritime pine tree. Ask for a fact sheet on the grape seed extract, which Ideal Health stocks, called Vitis.

Its action in the body is as a powerful antioxidant, which does a similar job to vitamin C in the body. Having said this though, as an antioxidant, Pycnogenol is 20 times more effective than vitamin C in the body and 50 times stronger than vitamin E. The main active ingredient is called proanthocyanidin or more commonly known as OPC.

Is Pycnogenol safe and how long has it been around for?

Yes, Pycnogenol is very safe. It has 25 years of laboratory research and clinical study. The history of Pycnogenol starts in 1534, when a French explorer with a crew of over 100 men realised he was going to lose this crew due to scurvy if he didn't do something to help them. This man then met an Indian who explained what could be done to help his men. He directed the Frenchman towards a tree, which he identified with the name Anneda. He explained how you could concoct a mixture from the bark and needles of the tree. The extract was then drunk and the remainder of the bark and needles was made into a poultice and placed on the aching joints of his crew. The Frenchman experimented on 2 of his crew and they recovered within 1 week. This was really the starting point, but it wasn't until about 1986 that its powerful free radical scavenger effect was discovered.

What are free radicals?

These are a group of highly reactive chemical substances that radically destroy living structures, particularly our immune system. These invaders are rampant in our environment today, due to pollution, chemicals and other toxins.

Put very simply, these free radicals will rust and crackle our body, by means of uncontrolled oxidation. Normally speaking, our immune system should get rid of free radicals. But because there are so many of these invaders invading our body all the time, our immune system has a hard job neutralising these. As well as this, a lot of people have a weakened immune system.

How do you take Pycnogenol?

It comes in a capsule or tablet, so it is easy to take. Evidence shows that most people who take Pycnogenol notice an almost immediate effect in the body. The dosage depends on your body weight, so every company's product dosage will vary with the strength of the product. Vitis is simply taken once a day.

What health problems can someone take Pycnogenol for?

Anyone would benefit from taking this product, but particularly those who are interested in living a longer healthier life or those who are already suffering from illness, such as:

Allergies

Asthma

Circulatory problems

Diabetes

Heart disease

Stroke

Blood pressure problems

Cholesterol

Gout

Problems relating to the prostate gland

Cancer

HIV and

Arthritis, just to name a few

Ideal Health stocks Natures Way Pycnogenol and Nutra Life Enzogenol

[Sifo-Dyas]

Health is of the utmost importance for all athletes but even more vital with the enhanced athletes.

There are really basic rules that can help you maintain optimum health and growth

Aside from managing estrogen, if you have to take any medication to mediate the side effects of any chemicals you are taking then these chemicals are not right for you and your body or are being abused.

Monitor your health with regular check ups and blood tests.

Support you internal organs with natural over the counter products.

Two of the most useful things that can have a huge positive impact on your health and longevity - Do some regular cardio!!!! No excuse. drink plenty of quality water.