First decent mass stack with HGH

[Sifo-Dyas]

So far I have had some really sound advice from Pete_S and Optimass and this has given me the motivation to make some subtle to my stack!!! I couldn't have hoped for a better result from this post...

The test has been going in for a month now and it feels really good and smooth. I have used the prop and the cyp to ramp things up and I will be taking the prop out altogether and dropping the cyp down daily until it is gone and will be increasing the Test E so by the end of the coming week I will be just running Test E at 175mg/day.

I have also decided to take 9iu of HGH straight after training (with 10iu of insulin) I did this today and aside from sum blurred vision for 30 minutes, I was able to tolerate this dose all at once.

Now I am faced with the most challenging question of them all - Do I take it Sub-Q or IM???

[nate225]

Sub cut for slin no doubt. IM might catch you unaware! "Go to sleep little man"! :grin:

As for HGH I dunno - expect you wanna keep levels high longer so sub cut may also be best method (less peaking?) though I don't know about metabolic loss differences between IM/SC.

[Sifo-Dyas]

I am very careful for insulin and have got it down to a safe science now. But the HGH Sub-Q/IM debate I am very keen to explore...?

[Optimass]

really interesting topic ... have found some references to a study suggesting low dose IM is as good as high dose sub-q, and that sub-q became mainstream as a result of HGH being used to treat children - reason was because caused less pain and chance of hit veins etc and achieved a "similar" level of success - similar implying not as good (obviously acceptable from a pediatric sense).

it was clear that intramuscular injections provided significantly higher peaks in GH concentration and greater total-delivered dose.12 In fact, the male subjects received nearly 50 percent more total GH from the same dose when the hormone was injected into muscle as opposed to subcutaneous fat. While GH delivery was vastly improved with intramuscular injections, IGF-1 concentrations were no different between subcutaneous versus intramuscular injections following the same (single) dose. Thus, it is unclear at this time whether intramuscular administration would provide any anabolic or tissue repair benefits. Hopefully, further research will clarify this point with long-term studies.

I'm trying to find the actual publication ...

[Sifo-Dyas]

This would lead me to sway towards having a crack at IM...I have now changed to protocol to take all 9iu at once post training and mite have a go at 4.5iu in each bicep post training and see if the results speak for themselves. At least if I test the theory myself the results will be the judge as to whether it is a worthy practice.

[WANABJAKD]

This would lead me to sway towards having a crack at IM...I have now changed to protocol to take all 9iu at once post training and mite have a go at 4.5iu in each bicep post training and see if the results speak for themselves. At least if I test the theory myself the results will be the judge as to whether it is a worthy practice.

listen to MNZ's advice

IM could produce a faster absorbtion rate but its hardly worth it with the speed that GH hits the liver.

Basskiller says "You should use an U100 insulin syringe for injecting HGH, and inject it subQ into your abdomen, obliques, top of thighs, triceps. Rotate injection sites. HGH can have a small-localized fat loss benefit, so keep this in mind when choosing your injection sites."

However its very hard to find enough loose skin on my thighs & triceps so I would suggest that IM would be fine in those areas. An insulin pin 29g 1/2" can still do IM injections where BF is relatively low.

ive heard of gh, esepcially fragment 176-191, having the ability to burn localized fat;however, in any case most males tend to store fat in the stomach and due to the anecdotal nature of this conjecture, it could be nothing more than coincidence when they administer into their abdomens.

gh needs to be absorbed into the bloodstream before signalling secretion of IGF-1Eb(Liver IGF), so why go through the pain and consume time by administering via IM, when you could alternatively administer via SUBQ into your gut in like 2 seconds? drive with your knees as you rub alcohol with one hand and pin with the other..just watch out for the red lights :shock:

[Sifo-Dyas]

Thanks WANABJAKD I appreciate your input there. I have done HGH Sub-Q with benefit and localised fat burning but I have no concern injecting anything IM and am keen to see if there is any benefit. From research it would seem conclusive that there is no disadvantage with IM and it mite even avoid the distended gut that sometimes occurs.

[WANABJAKD]

Thanks WANABJAKD I appreciate your input there. I have done HGH Sub-Q with benefit and localised fat burning but I have no concern injecting anything IM and am keen to see if there is any benefit. From research it would seem conclusive that there is no disadvantage with IM and it mite even avoid the distended gut that sometimes occurs.

distention of the gut is primarily caused by LARGE doses of GH. distention of the gut occurs as a result of too much free IGF-1 floating in the blood stream. because most of our igf-1 receptors are located in soft tissue (such as intestines), they very easily bind to these receptors, causing proliferating and thus, distention of the abdomen.

this is more of an issue with IGF analogues that have low/no binding affinity for IGF-1BP's(binding proteins), that are required to actually bind IGF-1 to the target receptor of the muscle.

[Mrbig]

will be watcching this closely didnt think you would need so much gear to gain 5kg maybe im doing it wrong lol

can I ask what weight you were when you first started training??

[Sifo-Dyas]

will be watcching this closely didnt think you would need so much gear to gain 5kg maybe im doing it wrong lol

can I ask what weight you were when you first started training??

Is not so much an equation where X amount of gear will achieve X amount of gain. I want 5kg of Permanent mass on my frame from this 12 week course.

In the world of competitive bodybuilding, that is a monumental achievement.

I started this course 4 weeks ago with just the gear. I front-loaded for the first few days with TNE then prop, cyp and rode it into the Test E.

My weight 4 weeks ago was 96kg. By the time I added the HGH a couple of days ago my strength was through the roof and my weight was 101kg. This morning it is 105kg!

If you are asking what my weight was when I began training 20years ago...that is a long story??

[aidangro]

will be watcching this closely didnt think you would need so much gear to gain 5kg maybe im doing it wrong lol

can I ask what weight you were when you first started training??

Is not so much an equation where X amount of gear will achieve X amount of gain. I want 5kg of Permanent mass on my frame from this 12 week course.

In the world of competitive bodybuilding, that is a monumental achievement.

I started this course 4 weeks ago with just the gear. I front-loaded for the first few days with TNE then prop, cyp and rode it into the Test E.

My weight 4 weeks ago was 96kg. By the time I added the HGH a couple of days ago my strength was through the roof and my weight was 101kg. This morning it is 105kg!

If you are asking what my weight was when I began training 20years ago...that is a long story??

f*ck bro 9kg in 4 weeks, thats crazy i tell ya.

[Sifo-Dyas]

After much thought, discussion and research I have chosen to take insulin pre and post training and take all 9iu of HGH post training IM.

Today at meal 2 I took 10iu of humalog followed by sufficient carbs and protein. 1 hour later I went and trained heavy and hard for 60+mins.

After training I took another 10iu of Humalog had more than sufficient protein & carbs and 15mins later I took 4.5iu of HGH directly into the bicep peaks of each arm.

No vein was hit but immediately I could taste the strong HGH preservative in the back of my throat and my vision went slightly blurry for 20 mins.

Both arms are still well pumped from the experience many hours later.

So far this practice has definitely achieved the most noticeable effects albeit side effects and unless someone has information from personal experience to show beyond doubt that IM will be detrimental to my growth potential or health, this is the way I will be taking the HGH for the next 12 weeks :nod:

[musclenz]

After much thought, discussion and research I have chosen to take insulin pre and post training and take all 9iu of HGH post training IM.

Today at meal 2 I took 10iu of humalog followed by sufficient carbs and protein. 1 hour later I went and trained heavy and hard for 60+mins.

After training I took another 10iu of Humalog had more than sufficient protein & carbs and 15mins later I took 4.5iu of HGH directly into the bicep peaks of each arm.

No vein was hit but immediately I could taste the strong HGH preservative in the back of my throat and my vision went slightly blurry for 20 mins.

Both arms are still well pumped from the experience many hours later.

So far this practice has definitely achieved the most noticeable effects albeit side effects and unless someone has information from personal experience to show beyond doubt that IM will be detrimental to my growth potential or health, this is the way I will be taking the HGH for the next 12 weeks :nod:

Your previous method of split dose may be more suitable towards fat loss but it seems the general consensus from users are that on mass phases HGH should be delivered in one dose. This is subject to endless debate but experts do state that the length of the HGH cycle is more important than its dosage, consequently, a regimen of 5 IU/day for 6 months will be more effective than 10 IU/day for 3 months. You have made great gains from your current regime. Why are you changing your delivery method? I doubt that IM will cause you any problems & it might actually work quite well as a Site Enhancing Agent I have used IGF1-R3 in this way into biceps & triceps. Found short term gains evident.

[thatwaslight]

why does growth cause blurry vision? is this relative to im or subq?

[Sifo-Dyas]

why does growth cause blurry vision? is this relative to im or subq?

It only happened with this particular HGH and only when I injected the entire 9iu dose in one go. Yeaterday it happend after Sub-Q and today after IM. It is listed as a possible side effect on the pamphlet and seems to be completely dose dependant.

[Sifo-Dyas]

Your previous method of split dose may be more suitable towards fat loss but it seems the general consensus from users are that on mass phases HGH should be delivered in one dose. This is subject to endless debate but experts do state that the length of the HGH cycle is more important than its dosage, consequently, a regimen of 5 IU/day for 6 months will be more effective than 10 IU/day for 3 months. You have made great gains from your current regime. Why are you changing your delivery method? I doubt that IM will cause you any problems & it might actually work quite well as a Site Enhancing Agent I have used IGF1-R3 in this way into biceps & triceps. Found short term gains evident.

The gains have made have been mostly due to the gear, heavy training and huge calorie intake. Nothing solid, all just natural side effects of high dose test. The HGH has only just begun and I have been swayed by information I have received as a direct result of this thread. Some posted and some PM. I started the thread in the very hope for such an outcome. I am too interested in growing to be conceited and believe my opinions and results from experience are superior. I want to achieve the best result with the HGH I have and there are more experienced people than me that achieve better results than I do from IM single dose. In fact no-one has PM'd me in support of Sub-Q? So the scales weigh heavy in favour of IM at this stage

[Pete_S]

Thanks for this. Awesome advice and I really appreciate you sharing this with me from your own experience and have taken it all on board and saved the information.

I am going to stick to this stack for this round and learn the hard way from my own mistakes...but your advised stack is going to be followed to the letter next phase. I have the components required and love NPP. Never thought to use NPP like this in a mass phase? I always use Masteron for mild estrogen support and other benefits and if estrogen gets too high I add arimidex 1mg EOD

Forgot to mention, 50mg of Proviron a day will help heaps too - mild estrogen support and helps free up test

Reason for stanz over dbol - Using a c17aa oral is great for boosting igf-1. Dbol kills my appetite by day 10 so thought I would try stanz so I don't bloat so soon.

[Sifo-Dyas]

The vitamin B12 is the one injection I never know how often to take? I was taking it at half a ml twice a week and at the following blood tests my B12 levels were 15 thousand times higher than normal. Its not harmful at high levels but the doctor suggested I did not need to take it anymore, I love the appetite from taking it frequently.

A lot of people are not aware that Vitamin B12 amps are available without a prescription in any chemist

[Chemo]

At what stage did you fullas start considering GH as part of your stack?

Was it a certain weight or rate of gains that made you add it?

[Android]

IMO everyone who takes gear should take B12 shots regularly for good health it's a staple support supplement OTC 3 amps for $30-$35

15,000 is pretty high tho lol, not sure of limits... NO-Xplode was 2,000 times recommended daily intake.

[thatwaslight]

What type of dose do you think is appropriate android?

[Android]

What type of dose do you think is appropriate android?

I think it's a personal thing mate.

Some people's body can handle constant muscle exhaustion from high volume of work, others can handle constant muscle failure from heavy weights.

For me, when someone says "man you look tired" when I walk into the gym...I needed a B12 shot a day or two ago.

Now, once a month I take a shot because I do only 4 or sometimes 5 workouts a week.

If you're working out twice a day, living and breathing this stuff then taking it more often definitely helps but I've never done ED or EOD. I tried once a week way back when I was splitting Back into 2 workouts and Legs as well, was doing 6 or 7 workouts a week then. And it worked great for me, appetite was strong and CNS didn't feel depressed at all, whereas without it after a heavy Leg workout I would not feel hungry that night or the following day.

[Sifo-Dyas]

At what stage did you fullas start considering GH as part of your stack?

Was it a certain weight or rate of gains that made you add it?

For me it was a decision that came after I believed I had reached my genetic peak and further gains were coming slow.

This was judged by my competition condition over the past 4 years. I had reached a certain weight and condition that was too big for a weight restricted or athletic category but to small to to be a major threat in an open weight category. Although I could come in harder and in better condition each year, my weight and mass gains were minimal.

HGH is the key to leveling the playing field as far as genetic restrictions are concerned.

And I do not have another 10 years to spend gaining to try and become competitive. I would be over 50 and competing in masters by then.

[WANABJAKD]

At what stage did you fullas start considering GH as part of your stack?

Was it a certain weight or rate of gains that made you add it?

For me it was a decision that came after I believed I had reached my genetic peak and further gains were coming slow.

This was judged by my competition condition over the past 4 years. I had reached a certain weight and condition that was too big for a weight restricted or athletic category but to small to to be a major threat in an open weight category. Although I could come in harder and in better condition each year, my weight and mass gains were minimal.

HGH is the key to leveling the playing field as far as genetic restrictions are concerned.

And I do not have another 10 years to spend gaining to try and become competitive. I would be over 50 and competing in masters by then.

incorrect, was recombinant HGH available in the 60's? look at arnold, he was a prime example of what happens when steroids meet great genetics. GH is just another tool, like many. there is nothing superior than testosterone for building muscle.

[Daz69]

incorrect, was recombinant HGH available in the 60's? look at arnold, he was a prime example of what happens when steroids meet great genetics. GH is just another tool, like many. there is nothing superior than testosterone for building muscle.

Not worked for you mate....... :pfft: :pfft: :pfft: