25yrs First Cycle - need advice

[tomsammce]

u just told nate 250mg pw is not good enough? i used it and im telling u it is... thats my personal experience... what evidence have you got to show that it isnt? and where on earth do u get the "250mg pw is 2x natural test level" whats your calculations for working that one out... or it just sound good to u?

thats a good example.

[nate225]

Oaakay... you cant be helped, keep laughing...

exactly pull your head in. dont get me wrong im all for abit of laughter and piss taking but your not providing either all your doing is spamming the steroid section with information, alot of which is complete bullshit. its ok for u to have an opinion and it does add value but when u shoot everyone down who knows more than u and be a knob about it its kinda lame... by all means shoot ppl down and call them a moron but make sure your right and they are wrong b4 u do it.

example?

everyone seems to shoot me down, regardless of what content i deliver because they dont want to give me the acknowledgement of being correct, and thats fine, but everything i say its both politically correct(amongst the steroid communities) and scientically justified.

i dont attack anyones advice, i just provide a fresh perspective; on the other hand, everyone slams me down about recommending 400-500mg of test with 20mg of dbol. :-s

Too fresh perhaps?

I'm being serious for once WBJKD. Maybe if you had 'done your time', before appearing to act as an expert, people would respect your opinions. Not everything you come up with is crap, most would acknowledge that, but with your limited training history and relatively under developed physique (no offense I'm referring to a competitive BBer physique), its hard for many of the guys who have been around for years (or decades! :pfft: ) to listen to you preaching to newbies when in fact that was you only 6 months ago.

Hopefully you take this constructive feedback onboard.

Nate

[joshrage]

haha thanks severe for the advice. 1.2g p/w... f*ck that's expensive!

hmmm -- I wish there was a pill that gave superpowers. I'd give that a go...

Yeah ok so when I say I want to be 95 and I'm already 90, I'm factoring in quite a lean body mass, so I think it's not as simple as just getting 5kg heavier. I can probably do that with ice cream as fast as test will take me there...

I think my diet is pretty good in terms of growing - I was sitting at around 80-83 over christmas period and BF hasn't gone up by much. (I will get proper stats this week). And I always train fuckin hard so I am hoping that I have got diet/training up to a reasonable standard. I do spend a good amount of time keeping up with latest articles and like to research bodybuilding - it's such a good practical thing to get into especially with the mental challenge and results factor.

I guess my main reason for wanting to use gear is that I kinda like the way humanity uses science to get better. I love the way olympic records get shattered every time they meet, and how what seemed impossible 50yrs ago is now average.

In some senses, simply wearing contact lenses or hearing aids is a step in the direction of using science to better humanity (transhumanism). Gear is another step, and things like HGH and Insulin are really interesting steps along this path.

As I'm personally not competing against anyone there is no need to worry about any unfair advantages, and I'm hoping to side with my more mature self in not getting to crazy with shitloads of juice and so this seems to me to be a choice worth making.

thoughts anyone?

[tomsammce]

haha thanks severe for the advice. 1.2g p/w... f*ck that's expensive!

hmmm -- I wish there was a pill that gave superpowers. I'd give that a go...

Yeah ok so when I say I want to be 95 and I'm already 90, I'm factoring in quite a lean body mass, so I think it's not as simple as just getting 5kg heavier. I can probably do that with ice cream as fast as test will take me there...

I think my diet is pretty good in terms of growing - I was sitting at around 80-83 over christmas period and BF hasn't gone up by much. (I will get proper stats this week). And I always train fuckin hard so I am hoping that I have got diet/training up to a reasonable standard. I do spend a good amount of time keeping up with latest articles and like to research bodybuilding - it's such a good practical thing to get into especially with the mental challenge and results factor.

I guess my main reason for wanting to use gear is that I kinda like the way humanity uses science to get better. I love the way olympic records get shattered every time they meet, and how what seemed impossible 50yrs ago is now average.

In some senses, simply wearing contact lenses or hearing aids is a step in the direction of using science to better humanity (transhumanism). Gear is another step, and things like HGH and Insulin are really interesting steps along this path.

As I'm personally not competing against anyone there is no need to worry about any unfair advantages, and I'm hoping to side with my more mature self in not getting to crazy with shitloads of juice and so this seems to me to be a choice worth making.

thoughts anyone?

lol, u need your own forum all to yourself.

[WANABJAKD]

u just told nate 250mg pw is not good enough? i used it and im telling u it is... thats my personal experience... what evidence have you got to show that it isnt? and where on earth do u get the "250mg pw is 2x natural test level" whats your calculations for working that one out... or it just sound good to u?

thats a good example.

15% of the hormones weight is carried by the enanthate ester, which weighs 15mg to every 100mg total of hormone.

250*.85=212/.85, .80(15-20% loss through metabolism)=170-180.63mg

i dont have any evidence to suggest otherwise and your right, but its a matter of a vast political opinion, not a personal one.

[HarryB]

u just told nate 250mg pw is not good enough? i used it and im telling u it is... thats my personal experience... what evidence have you got to show that it isnt? and where on earth do u get the "250mg pw is 2x natural test level" whats your calculations for working that one out... or it just sound good to u?

thats a good example.

15% of the hormones weight is carried by the enanthate ester, which weighs 15mg to every 100mg total of hormone.

250*.85=212/.85, .80(15-20% loss through metabolism)=170-180.63mg

i dont have any evidence to suggest otherwise and your right, but its a matter of a vast political opinion, not a personal one.

Maybe stick with your personal EXPERIENCE.... as I said before.

[Android]

First timer, lucky bastard!

232.6gms is what u need for a 90kg...

Ok any low dose will do and to repeat what most r saying, 200-250 for convenience of mls is fine.

Just Test is cautious good advice to enhance your gym session, try it and see.

Don't need much PCT but caution says get something b4 you start cycle in case you're not 'average' in terms of response to Test.

Most first-timers who dint know anyone should use pharmacy-grade stuff, find a mens clinic in your area and get it from there mate don't take any chances.

Know 2 guys both just started their first time 5 weeks ago, 1 using pharma grade 250mg test-e ampule every week, other guy using 500mg UG sus a week.

both started 5 weeks ago and the 1st guy is going to stop taking it's not agreeing with him at all. Other guy is happiest dude in the gym loving life and growing.

Different strokes different folks you see. If my first mate had done UG I would have questioned the gear first but it's not in this case.

[Chemo]

i did a 8 weeks cycle for my first of pharma grade genesis (the real genesis) teston250 which was their product name for sustanon250.

i went from 76kg to 84kg and became leaner too. i had already got wat would be considered a pretty good physique (better than rakish lol) so its not like i got newbie gains mixed with gear.

Daaaaaaaaamn that stuff sounds goood.

Totally disagree with what WANABEMORETHAN60KG said

Knowledge is a base, after that you have to try it for yourself, and this becomes experience. Everyone is gonna react differently.

Start with test at whatever dosage >500 and see how it treats you.

Have PCT ready just in case, and if you got the cash get some DBOL to try perhaps. One thing at a time though.

I just finished my first cycle, with another week of PCT (dont think it was needed though)

500 Apollo test e. 15 weeks. 84kg to a solid 96-97. Slight BF raise with all them carbs but a huge compositional change. I've dropped back to 90kg now with a lower BF and less water, the shape has still remained, and gotta say it was a treat to do it. Makes the act of gym and life as a lifter stress free. Shoots you years into the future. Was gon do a big write up about my experience but then opti dropped his big sensible post, and mine would be the total opposite lol!

Good luck josh! you wont regret it.

[tomsammce]

i did a 8 weeks cycle for my first of pharma grade genesis (the real genesis) teston250 which was their product name for sustanon250.

i went from 76kg to 84kg and became leaner too. i had already got wat would be considered a pretty good physique (better than rakish lol) so its not like i got newbie gains mixed with gear.

Daaaaaaaaamn that stuff sounds goood.

yes and no... at the end of the day its just 250mg of test. although impossible it would be interesting for me to be able to go back to b4 first cycle and use 250mg of some of this ug stuff going round like titan or apollo just to see comparasion.... anyway first cycle is always the biggest change/results from what ive seen

[Daz69]

I just finished my first cycle, with another week of PCT (dont think it was needed though)

500 Apollo test e. 15 weeks. 84kg to a solid 96-97. Slight BF raise with all them carbs but a huge compositional change. I've dropped back to 90kg now with a lower BF and less water, the shape has still remained, and gotta say it was a treat to do it. Makes the act of gym and life as a lifter stress free. Shoots you years into the future. Was gon do a big write up about my experience but then opti dropped his big sensible post, and mine would be the total opposite lol!

Good luck josh! you wont regret it.

Hey Chemo....

So you've done it....!!!!

Glad you liked the experience...

I suspect its the first of many....

Take care & Goodluck....

[Pseudonym]

I think you should post before/after shots for us, Chemo. :nod:

[Chemo]

Just read joshs post again before, and totally missed something:

And I always train fuckin hard so I am hoping that I have got diet/training up to a reasonable standard. I do spend a good amount of time keeping up with latest articles and like to research bodybuilding - it's such a good practical thing to get into especially with the mental challenge and results factor.

You will love gear then, in fact id say you'd be someone who deserved it.

You obviously love training and the science around it. If your the kinda guy that worries about overtraining or undereating, doing the right lifts and getting your program picture perfect. Gear is gonna blow your mind.

Imagine overtraining every day and not suffering for it.

Psuedo: Didn't do photos ay :/

Don't think id want to just in case someone knew me lol!

When I get time/motivation I'd love to do a write up from a COMPLETE amateurs perspective. I found the whole process super interesting. Would be kinda helpful for people looking into a cycle. Just hope I dont double post 8)

Take care & Goodluck....

Lol Cheers daz, you make it sound so heavy. I'm not gonna pull a Charlie Sheen anytime soon. Already thinking second cycle though :twisted:

yes and no... at the end of the day its just 250mg of test. although impossible it would be interesting for me to be able to go back to b4 first cycle and use 250mg of some of this ug stuff going round like titan or apollo just to see comparasion.... anyway first cycle is always the biggest change/results from what ive seen

Yeah for sure, everyone I've talked to has said the first is the best. Kinda sad to have that done and dusted now. I already know what I did wrong on my cycle, I wish I sorted my shit out thoroughly before rushing into it. On that note.. surely if you ran some crazy 2g+ cycle that would have more effect than 500 of one substance?

How would you rate Apollo and Titan in the big scheme of things? Quality vs Price etc

[tomsammce]

i would like to read a reveiw of your experience bro... you've done it now so it would be your opinion on your experience which is impossible to be wrong with... so put it up while fresh in your mind.

titan and apollo are different so when i speak for one i dnt speak for the other. but yeah they are both very good, titan has some good oral liquids like clen, t3 and clomid. and apollo has some really good strong tren enanthate as well as their other stuff. price of the two seems similar for average joe depending how many hands its passed thru of course. as for your question... theres nothing like pharm gear for peace of mind, but as i getting into my mid twenties i wanna save for a house and now have rent and expenses to pay etc now so i go for cheaper option as long as good quality when it comes to gear so titan or apollo... back when i was 19-21 living at home with all my income disposible i prob woulda said give me pharm grade shit all day baby! but really its all just a big waste of fucken money when you take a step back and look at bigger picture aint it? but we are all just addicted and dont wanna admit it lol. wish i had of taken up tennis or something when i was 14, racket and shoes hahah

[WANABJAKD]

i would like to read a reveiw of your experience bro... you've done it now so it would be your opinion on your experience which is impossible to be wrong with... so put it up while fresh in your mind.

titan and apollo are different so when i speak for one i dnt speak for the other. but yeah they are both very good, titan has some good oral liquids like clen, t3 and clomid. and apollo has some really good strong tren enanthate as well as their other stuff. price of the two seems similar for average joe depending how many hands its passed thru of course. as for your question... theres nothing like pharm gear for peace of mind, but as i getting into my mid twenties i wanna save for a house and now have rent and expenses to pay etc now so i go for cheaper option as long as good quality when it comes to gear so titan or apollo... back when i was 19-21 living at home with all my income disposible i prob woulda said give me pharm grade shit all day baby! but really its all just a big waste of fucken money when you take a step back and look at bigger picture aint it? but we are all just addicted and dont wanna admit it lol. wish i had of taken up tennis or something when i was 14, racket and shoes hahah

lmao...cool story bro (thumbs up)

[Dubble_D]

i would like to read a reveiw of your experience bro... you've done it now so it would be your opinion on your experience which is impossible to be wrong with... so put it up while fresh in your mind.

+1

[Dubble_D]

i would like to read a reveiw of your experience bro... you've done it now so it would be your opinion on your experience which is impossible to be wrong with... so put it up while fresh in your mind.

titan and apollo are different so when i speak for one i dnt speak for the other. but yeah they are both very good, titan has some good oral liquids like clen, t3 and clomid. and apollo has some really good strong tren enanthate as well as their other stuff. price of the two seems similar for average joe depending how many hands its passed thru of course. as for your question... theres nothing like pharm gear for peace of mind, but as i getting into my mid twenties i wanna save for a house and now have rent and expenses to pay etc now so i go for cheaper option as long as good quality when it comes to gear so titan or apollo... back when i was 19-21 living at home with all my income disposible i prob woulda said give me pharm grade shit all day baby! but really its all just a big waste of fucken money when you take a step back and look at bigger picture aint it? but we are all just addicted and dont wanna admit it lol. wish i had of taken up tennis or something when i was 14, racket and shoes hahah

lmao...cool story bro (thumbs up)

unnecessary!

[Daz69]

but really its all just a big waste of fucken money when you take a step back and look at bigger picture aint it? but we are all just addicted and dont wanna admit it lol.

Think you got it there Tom....................

[tomsammce]

i would like to read a reveiw of your experience bro... you've done it now so it would be your opinion on your experience which is impossible to be wrong with... so put it up while fresh in your mind.

titan and apollo are different so when i speak for one i dnt speak for the other. but yeah they are both very good, titan has some good oral liquids like clen, t3 and clomid. and apollo has some really good strong tren enanthate as well as their other stuff. price of the two seems similar for average joe depending how many hands its passed thru of course. as for your question... theres nothing like pharm gear for peace of mind, but as i getting into my mid twenties i wanna save for a house and now have rent and expenses to pay etc now so i go for cheaper option as long as good quality when it comes to gear so titan or apollo... back when i was 19-21 living at home with all my income disposible i prob woulda said give me pharm grade shit all day baby! but really its all just a big waste of fucken money when you take a step back and look at bigger picture aint it? but we are all just addicted and dont wanna admit it lol. wish i had of taken up tennis or something when i was 14, racket and shoes hahah

lmao...cool story bro (thumbs up)

should i come for a train with u at howick rec centre this week... we can do bench press and ill push the bar down onto ur fucken neck and hold it there with one hand till ur face goes the same colour as ur turban and then give u thumbs up with the other.... keen?

[thatwaslight]

Post of the year tom

[DANIEL8]

Sorry to mislead readers - Wanna blow a kiddie has only done two cycles. He's now a MASSIVE 82kgs and only has to run around for 5 minutes now in the shower to get wet. Please listen to his advice about AAS / PED use - his acheivements warrant his self imposed guru status (sic).

:clap:

[WANABJAKD]

tom, ill take you up on that offer; the extra resistance could be good

[tomsammce]

tom, ill take you up on that offer; the extra resistance could be good

exactly it was an offer not a threat.... it might be hard finding ur neck tho eh... seeing as your upper chest, traps and all that would consume your neck.

na seriously we should have a training... do some filiming make a ramy movie could be put in same genre at the gymrat crap floating round