When is a bodybuilder not a bodybuilder?

[bang_bang]

good discussion guys im still scratching my head over this one..

i guess it comes down to individual interpretation. i train like a bodybuilder, i eat like a bodybuilder but i doubt ill ever compete as a bodybuilder. im following a bodybuilders lifestyle because..

1. its the most effective way to add muscle to ones physique

2. its taught me discipline, determination

3. its brought structure to my life. i wake up, i know what i have to do and i get it done (not just training and diet wise, everything)

4. its given me confidence that i thought id never have and generally just makes me feel better about myself

5. im finding better looking women are now in my price range :pfft:

6. i enjoy it

anyways im maybe getting a bit off topic here. what im trying to say is its changed my life for the better in so many ways whether i compete or not and thats what matters.. i consider myself a bodybuilder because im trying to build my body. although i dont describe myself to others as a bodybuilder because of the sterotypes. are there entry requirements to bodybuilding comps? is someone whos never trained or dieted but enters a bodybuilding comp more of a bodybuilder than me?

[Optimass]

We have had this debate before & we are never going to agree on it. What does it matter what you call yourself. Its only a term. Its what you do in the gym, with your nutrition, supps & lifestyle that matters. If you achieve a good enough physique to stand up on a stage, so be it.

lols - I was waiting for you to post :pfft:

But of course we have all seen plenty of so called "Bodybuilders" standing on stages that should never have been there. Maybe there is another term that could describe us pathetic little buggers that don't compete. I'm open for suggestions

I personally don't care as long as they ...

a) don't prance

b) don't lipsink

and c) where a tiara!

:doh:

[Optimass]

I would class as a "weight trainer" - a body builder is someone (man/woman) that makes it to the stage IMO

:?

So this mean you are headed back to the stage Opti?

stop spreading rumors ...

never say never :shifty: :pfft:

[Tygrrh]

But of course we have all seen plenty of so called "Bodybuilders" standing on stages that should never have been there. Maybe there is another term that could describe us pathetic little buggers that don't compete. I'm open for suggestions

I personally don't care as long as they ...

a) don't prance

b) don't lipsink

and c) where a tiara!

:doh:

[teamfatboy]

Until you get on stage, you are not a BBer, period. Yes you may live the so called "lifestyle" and train and eat like one but you still aren't competing. Otherwise every LB in the NFL is also a BBer

Not sure I buy that one... Linebackers train the way they do for a specific purpose, the fact that their training is largely the same as a BB'er doesn't detract from the differing purpose.

As for competing - what's really the difference between competing on-stage and striving every day to improve your body? If a swimmer strives to beat his own PB, does that devalue his effort just because there weren't seven others racing against him ?

I think you contradicted your point TFB - if the two genres train the same and the only distiguishing difference that qualifies the bodybuilder as a bodybuilder is the purpose - being stepping on to a stage to be judged and compared agiast other peers - isn't the act of competing the final point.

Too many people are focused on the journey - but the actual sport of bodybuilding is yes to train and diet etc but ultimately, it is to compete.

True, fair point.... altho I'd argue that the only difference is in the judging (internal reference (do I look the best I can) versus external (what does a panel think), absolute (I can't get better) versus comparative (ranking in class)), in that all being judged proves is your relative merit on the day against a random pool.....

So, now that Phil Heath's retired, does that mean he's a weight-trainer ?

[Optimass]

No Phil is a bodybuilder because he is accomplished despite being retired.

They still call the ex presidents Mr President, ex boxing champs "the Champ".

[Beowulf]

A bodybuilder is not a bodybuilder when he or she does not set out to be a bodybuilder.

[Phedder]

If you're not actively competing you're not a bodybuilder. You could train exactly the same as a boxer/kickboxer every week for years but if you've never had a fight you're not one. If you did rugby training every week and never played a game you wouldnt be a rugby player etc. Training like one doesnt make you one.

Boxing and Rugby are obviously sports that you have to participate in to be considered a Boxer or Rugby player, whereas with Bodybuilding, every time you train you're participating in Bodybuilding because you're inducing those physical changes in your body. Training like a bodybuilder is exactly what makes you one.

Nope - you're a weight trainer. That's like saying every retired person that attends a pump class is a powerlifter. :grin:

That's where I like what TFB added about the purpose of the training as well. So you're view is that the competition is what gives the title of bodybuilder? One person in the gym is training to improve their physique, I'd consider that act bodybuilding, yet when asked I doubt they'd say they were bodybuilding. However, if another person was training to improve their physique for the purpose of competing in a show, when asked they'd likely reply they were bodybuilding. Two identical actions, two different purposes. If both achieved an identical physique, but one competes and the other doesn't, then only the one which competed can be recognised as a bodybuilder?

[Optimass]

yes correct

[WANABJAKD]

a bodybuilder is anyone who commits him or herself for the purpose of building muscle. i.e commited to a training regime, nutritional plan and lifestyle.

I agree with WANABJAKD,even tho i dont call myself a bodybuilder,i still do everything that they do and sum.

who knows one day i might get up on stage.

i think i need to elaborate,

when i said commit to a training regime, nutritional plan and lifestyle i meant you train with focus and never miss a workout, you never miss a meal or cheat(often, for some) and lastly you dont go out with your bros every other night, get pissed and lose sleep.

beginners clearly are not bodybuilders just because they get a training regime or nutritional plan handed to them. commitment is a virtue not something that is imposed on you. no beginner will meet the criteria above in order to be called/call themselves a bodybuilder.

its not a privilege or anything you have to earn. you dont need to compete on stage to call yourself a bodybuilder, as muscle previously said, there are plenty of guys that look like they shouldnt even be there :pfft:

[Optimass]

beginners clearly are not bodybuilders just because they get a training regime or nutritional plan handed to them. commitment is a virtue not something that is imposed on you. no beginner will meet the criteria above in order to be called/call themselves a bodybuilder.

two really good examples of "beginners" ...

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10212

Aside from Bobsta, Andy (below) was the best novice I had seen last year. Traigcally unprepared on stage as he hadn't learnt the compulsery poses - which take skill, stamina and strength to maintain when you are essentially undernourished.

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10095

both extremely good examples of novice body builders

[BarBrother]

I believe especially with sports like bodybuilding where there is a massive differenc between doing weights and getting on stage. I have encountered many a person who sets out on a 12 week plan to cut down and get on stage but guess what for one reason/excuse or another they dont.

When someone tells me they are a bodybuilder I ask when they are getting or have been on stage?

I think that because being a bodybuilder requires massive amounts of dedication, sacrifice and effort. These qualities are missing in probably 90% of the population. I think that alot of people want to think they are bodybuilders but miss any of the qualities (stated earlier) that will get them to that stage.

Set the fucken standard high. To be a bodybuilder you have to get on stage ( and thats a bear minimum) so if you your calling yourself a body builder and you havnt been on stage, then take a good hard look at yourslef and realise you are like every other average gym rat weight trainer, which is definitly not a bodybuilder.

BTW I am a powerlifter....lol

[WANABJAKD]

beginners clearly are not bodybuilders just because they get a training regime or nutritional plan handed to them. commitment is a virtue not something that is imposed on you. no beginner will meet the criteria above in order to be called/call themselves a bodybuilder.

two really good examples of "beginners" ...

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10212

Aside from Bobsta, Andy (below) was the best novice I had seen last year. Traigcally unprepared on stage as he hadn't learnt the compulsery poses - which take skill, stamina and strength to maintain when you are essentially undernourished.

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10095

both extremely good examples of novice body builders

first example has been training for 2.5 years and lost 40kgs in 8 months...you think hes not committed?

second example stays in very lean condition all year round which suggests he is commited to his diet. he also packs on quite a bit of muscle for his smaller frame.

they are both clearly bodybuilders and meet the criteria, whether they want to be referred to as bodybuilders or not, it does not concern me.

[Optimass]

yeep weight trainer :nod: thats me.

you in a pump class ... pics or it never happened!

[Android]

wow intense topic that has no real answer.

Reminds me of the great chinese paradox "When a white horse is not a horse".

When I was in the gym trying to get bigger and "building my body" I wished I could call myself a bodybuilder but I thought it was a joke if I did, having not actually competed I would have been a wannabe bodybuilder. I still feel this way and if I don't compete soon or if I stop preparing for a comp I'll drop the term wherever it's used.

I do believe some of the logic presented above is flawed when it refers to running, which conveniently refers to the said action, same goes for "building body" being taken to imply "bodybuilder". Sorry I did 3rd year philosophy so the arguments are weak when they only use this correlation.

Let's look at something a bit more obvious that doesn't have that correlation of state and action in the words....Triathlons and triathletes.

I don't go around calling myself a triathlete just because I have 2 legs, a bike and a pair of togs.

I also wouldn't call myself a triathlete if I "practised" these 3 disciplines without the intention of competing as one. Actually, I wouldn't call myself a triathlete UNTIL I had competed to be honest with you.

The confusion I have is that I should call myself a marathon runner if I run marathon distances in my spare time, I deserve to don't I? Hell yes...And so this is where "body builders" in the gym have the right to call themselves "bodybuilders" I suppose.

If you believe you are a bodybuilder and calling yourself a bodybuilder feels right for you, go for it. Just don't go one step further and start calling yourself a competitive bodybuilder just because you're a competitive person who goes to the gym to build his/ her body :-) that'd be overstepping the imaginery line....

Anyway my definition of "bodybuilder" is someone who has muscular growth beyond that of the normal person.

I can qualify this a bit better with... If you don't "look" like a bodybuilder (the kind that the rest of the world knows as "bodybuilder") for whatever reason (you're new at it, you're small at the mo, you're working on it etc) then you'd HAVE to compete imo to be able to call yourself a "bodybuilder" because just by looking at you...no-one would have guessed that in a million years.

hmm I wonder if I'm a Pro Bodybuilder, I'm doing all the same things they do...

[Optimass]

Ok ... to end the debate lets create a subclass in between bodybuilder and pro bodybuilder ... "competitive bodybuilder". I can live with that.

:nod:

So would that mean given I have not been enhanced for over 5 years that I am now a "Natural Bodybuilder" ...

What do you guys say we start another thread :grin:

[WANABJAKD]

So would that mean given I have not been enhanced for over 5 years that I am now a "Natural Bodybuilder" ...

i think its time to saddle up

[Phedder]

f you believe you are a bodybuilder and calling yourself a bodybuilder feels right for you, go for it. Just don't go one step further and start calling yourself a competitive bodybuilder just because you're a competitive person who goes to the gym to build his/ her body

Similar to where I stand. The distinction between a recreational bodybuilder and competitive bodybuilder is very important, and I feel the term 'bodybuilder' needs either adjective in front of it to become a complete and accurate description of whom it's applied to.

Just had a quick read about the white horse thing, can tell I'm going to spend far too much time reading/thinking about that one :oops:

[Phedder]

Ok ... to end the debate lets create a subclass in between bodybuilder and pro bodybuilder ... "competitive bodybuilder". I can live with that.

I tried that about 35 posts ago! :pfft:

I see anyone who is striving to change their bodies as a type of bodybuilder. Then the term competitive comes to mind, and that's the term I would apply to someone who has done their thing on stage and competed. So for me there are two types, the casual bodybuilders who just want to look better, and then the competitive bodybuilders who aim to get on stage.

[Luigi]

I agree. I think everyone who lifts weights has a bit of bodybuilder in him or her somewhere.

I must the only exception lol. :oops:

your vast knowledge of pumping iron quotes disagrees

[Shutupandsquat]

Until you get on stage, you are not a BBer, period. Yes you may live the so called "lifestyle" and train and eat like one but you still aren't competing. Otherwise every LB in the NFL is also a BBer

Not sure I buy that one... Linebackers train the way they do for a specific purpose, the fact that their training is largely the same as a BB'er doesn't detract from the differing purpose.

As for competing - what's really the difference between competing on-stage and striving every day to improve your body? If a swimmer strives to beat his own PB, does that devalue his effort just because there weren't seven others racing against him ?

I think you contradicted your point TFB - if the two genres train the same and the only distiguishing difference that qualifies the bodybuilder as a bodybuilder is the purpose - being stepping on to a stage to be judged and compared agiast other peers - isn't the act of competing the final point.

Too many people are focused on the journey - but the actual sport of bodybuilding is yes to train and diet etc but ultimately, it is to compete.

Just making that bold because of the other thread ;D

[HumanPerformance]

Im with pseudonym and phedder on this.

Optimass, you have classified yourself as a "weight trainer" but ask your self this- what is your primary goal with your training? Is it not to add more muscle to your frame? Sure you would like to increase your strength as well but this is not your main motivation. And thats what bodybuilding is, its the intent. Many on here claim that Josef Rakish is not a bodybuilder as he is not as big as other bodybuilders. Yet one can see from his pics that he has added muscle to his frame that was not there previously, it may only be 3 or 4kg of muscle, but he has added it non the less. He is therefore a bodybuilder as he has undergone a training regimine where the goal was to increase his muscle mass and it is this that qualifies him as a bodybuilder .

Lets say we have a young man who is a severe ectomorph (very skinny with very little bodyfat) He has been training for 3 years religiously and has never missed a workout. He eats 6 meals a day and he has researched and consumes the perfect macro nutient ratios in order to gain muscle. He has tried every supplement under the sun and in the last 3 years he has gone from 64kg to 69kg.And his arms have gone from 13 inches to 14.5 inches.

If anyone looked at him they wouldnt even think he worked out at all (and these people exsist,we all know one!) Yet is he not a bodybuilder? And if he isnt at what point does he become one? When he gets up onstage and competes?

The vast majority of bodybuilders will never compete but thier primary goal of working out is to gain muscle, some of the best bodybuilders of all time never actually competed. Think of Victor Richards would he not be classed as a bodybuilder?

Bodybuilders, olympic lifters, strongmen competitors, and even to a lesser extent league players,track and field atheletes, martial artists all lift weights to improve thier performance and are therefore "weight trainers" but none of them are bodybuilders except the bodybuilder.

For those of you who are confused as to what you are ask yourself this-

1.If you could wake up tomorrow morning with 8kg of extra muscle and 5kg less of bodyfat,

2.Or with a 30% extra increase in strength or dramatically improved performance and abilities in your chosen sport but you had gained 5kg of fat and lost 5kg of muscle,

Which one would you choose? I know what the powerlifters on this site would choose and I know what the bodybuilders would choose!And if you chose number 1 congratulations your a bodybuilder. You can call yourself a "powerbuilder" or a "weight trainer" or whatever if you feel the need to disassociate yourself from the likes of Josef Rikish but deep down your a bodybuilder same as him.

[Shutupandsquat]

I would stand with Optimass. I don't think you class as a bodybuilder 'til you compete and one flaw with your arguement. (not really the argument as a whole but just a bit in it) 13 inch arms is quite big for an ectomorph who hasn't worked out. Hell it's about what a mesomorph who hasn't worked out would be around. Sure Bodybuilding; the name implies building the body but I don't think you're a bodybuilder as such. Male models (Joseph Rakich) are male models, not bodybuilders. When I think Bodybuilder, I think a group of people up on stage posing, entertaining people as they show off their athletic attributes. If I start smacking a golf ball with a golf club. I'm not a golfer. I'm just bored as f*ck.

[Optimass]

HP - finally made it!

Me and Vic are both bodybuilders ....

Victor:

Year Competition Placing

1982 American Cup 2nd

1983 Teen Los Angeles 1st

1984 California Gold Cup Classic 1st

1989 Mr. Barbados 1st

1992 Nigerian Championships Overall, 1st

Me:

1997 INBA South Pacifics Natural Champs 85kg 2nd

1999 INBA South Pacifics Natural Champs 89kg 3rd

2001 NZFBB Aucklands 99kg 2nd

Granted his are much more impressive (as are many on this site) but I still have the little plastic men to prove it :grin:

Vic is famous for being gifted his pro card as he gave up competing after becoming dissilusioned over the way he had been scored against other body builders. Sounds familiar HP? . He did compete but not as a pro.

[justhell]

yeep weight trainer :nod: thats me.

you in a pump class ... pics or it never happened!

ha ha ha,na i dont think id keep up in a pump class :pfft:

i like the sound of weight trainer.

8)