2nd Cycle - Cutting – Test Prop/Eq – Advice or suggestions

[clash]

The negative feedback loop from a moderate course of T3 will correct itself within 10-15days. The negative feedback loop from a moderate course of of AAS may take 10-15 weeks to correct itself! And after a moderate course of T3, when your own hormone production resumes it will often reset at above the original base line permanently. What this means is that your metabolism will be permanently increased between 10% and 25% once your natural thyroid hormones resume after a course of T3 or T4.

Agree with SM that exogenous T4 is practically useless in point of increasing metabolism. T4 converts to T3 in the liver & kidneys. Best just add in T3. Also I would like to see the clinical study to back up your statement highlighted.

It was first bought to my attention in Chemical Muscle Enhancement" Pg. 109.

There is far to much to txt and I covered this basically in my supposedly controversial quote. I was intrigued by this and further research seemed to support. this. With the support of my doctor, my personal experience proved this to in fact be true.

I have since prescribed the same course to at least 5 other individuals and blood test taken every 3 months over 18months have proven that it is common for individuals to realise an "increase" in endogenous thyroid hormone production of 120-130% within 3 - 15 days after drug discontinuance.

It has been 4 years since my last course T3. I recently had my quarterly blood tests done and my endogenous thyroid hormone production is still 120% higher than the blood test taken 2 days prior to beginning my course of T3.

This occurrence can easily be researched but if people are still sceptical you are welcome to PM me and I will email you the blood tests, or point you in the direction of the studies done on this :-)

[musclenz]

The negative feedback loop from a moderate course of T3 will correct itself within 10-15days. The negative feedback loop from a moderate course of of AAS may take 10-15 weeks to correct itself! And after a moderate course of T3, when your own hormone production resumes it will often reset at above the original base line permanently. What this means is that your metabolism will be permanently increased between 10% and 25% once your natural thyroid hormones resume after a course of T3 or T4.

Agree with SM that exogenous T4 is practically useless in point of increasing metabolism. T4 converts to T3 in the liver & kidneys. Best just add in T3. Also I would like to see the clinical study to back up your statement highlighted.

It was first bought to my attention in Chemical Muscle Enhancement" Pg. 109.

There is far to much to txt and I covered this basically in my supposedly controversial quote. I was intrigued by this and further research seemed to support. this. With the support of my doctor, my personal experience proved this to in fact be true.

I have since prescribed the same course to at least 5 other individuals and blood test taken every 3 months over 18months have proven that it is common for individuals to realise an "increase" in endogenous thyroid hormone production of 120-130% within 3 - 15 days after drug discontinuance.

It has been 4 years since my last course T3. I recently had my quarterly blood tests done and my endogenous thyroid hormone production is still 120% higher than the blood test taken 2 days prior to beginning my course of T3.

This occurrence can easily be researched but if people are still sceptical you are welcome to PM me and I will email you the blood tests, or point you in the direction of the studies done on this :-)

I'm not saying you are wrong about endogenous increases in T3 production after a cycle. It may well be the case but I find it hard to understand if you reset your base rates each time you did a cycle of T3 that it would increase each time by 10 - 25%. This would have some top BBers running crazy levels of metabolism. I have never heard of this happening. Are they permanent changes that you have noticed in your peoples experience or does the body revert to homeostasis in a period of time & typically what period of time is this?

I do know that you can cause the thyroid to cease T3 production & shut down the closed loop feedback process out of the pituitary gland where it has been over used or dosed too high for too long. So it should be treated with great respect by users IMO.

[WANABJAKD]

Agree with SM that exogenous T4 is practically useless in point of increasing metabolism. T4 converts to T3 in the liver & kidneys. Best just add in T3. Also I would like to see the clinical study to back up your statement highlighted.

It was first bought to my attention in Chemical Muscle Enhancement" Pg. 109.

There is far to much to txt and I covered this basically in my supposedly controversial quote. I was intrigued by this and further research seemed to support. this. With the support of my doctor, my personal experience proved this to in fact be true.

I have since prescribed the same course to at least 5 other individuals and blood test taken every 3 months over 18months have proven that it is common for individuals to realise an "increase" in endogenous thyroid hormone production of 120-130% within 3 - 15 days after drug discontinuance.

It has been 4 years since my last course T3. I recently had my quarterly blood tests done and my endogenous thyroid hormone production is still 120% higher than the blood test taken 2 days prior to beginning my course of T3.

This occurrence can easily be researched but if people are still sceptical you are welcome to PM me and I will email you the blood tests, or point you in the direction of the studies done on this :-)

I'm not saying you are wrong about endogenous increases in T3 production after a cycle. It may well be the case but I find it hard to understand if you reset your base rates each time you did a cycle of T3 that it would increase each time by 10 - 25%. This would have some top BBers running crazy levels of metabolism. I have never heard of this happening. Are they permanent changes that you have noticed in your peoples experience or does the body revert to homeostasis in a period of time & typically what period of time is this?

I do know that you can cause the thyroid to cease T3 production & shut down the closed loop feedback process out of the pituitary gland where it has been over used or dosed too high for too long. So it should be treated with great respect by users IMO.

An early study that looked at thyroid function and recovery under the influence of exogenous thyroid hormone was undertaken by Greer (2). He looked at patients who were misdiagnosed as being hypothyroid and put on thyroid hormone replacement for as long as 30 years. When the medication was withdrawn, their thyroids quickly returned to normal.

Here is a remark about Greer's classic paper from a later author:

"In 1951, Greer reported the pattern of recovery of thyroid function after stopping suppressive treatment with thyroid hormone in euthyroid [normal] subjects based on sequential measurements of their thyroidal uptake of radioiodine. He observed that after withdrawal of exogenous thyroid therapy, thyroid function, in terms of radioiodine uptake, returned to normal in most subjects within two weeks. He further observed that thyroid function returned as rapidly in those subjects whose glands had been depressed by several years of thyroid medication as it did in those whose gland had been depressed for only a few days" (3)

These results have been subsequently verified in several studies.(3)(4) So contrary to what has been stated in the bodybuilding literature, there is no evidence that long term thyroid supplementation will somehow damage your thyroid gland. Nevertheless, most bodybuilders will choose to cycle their T3 (or T4 which in most cases works just as well) as part of a cutting strategy, since T3 is catabolic with respect to muscle just as it is with fat. As previously mentioned, long term T3 induced hyperthyroidism is also catabolic to bone as well as muscle.

another interesting read for the big bros

What may not be an effective strategy to maintain muscle mass during a T3 cycle is the use of exogenous growth hormone (GH). Studies have shown that when GH and T3 are administered concurrently, the increased nitrogen retention normally associated with GH use is abolished. This has been attributed to the observation that T3 increases levels of insulin like growth factor binding protein, reducing the bioavailability of igf-1 (14). Nevertheless, GH has fat burning properties independent of igf-1, so using GH with T3 would act additively to speed fat burning, but with little if any preservation of lean body mass. So again, if GH is used in conjunction with T3, anabolic steroid/prohormone use would be indicated.

[Chemo]

Awesome thread

Interesting about exo T3 stimulating a higher resting metabolism.

All I've heard about T3 so far is that it has the risk of suppressing your natural production not enhancing it !

T3 is good if your trying to prevent homeostasis once you reach a very low bf% to allow yourself to keep burning fat. though your going to shut down.

So T3 would be at best benefit at the end of a cycle or diet when you are consuming very low calories?

Regarding the art of cutting on gear; does anyone involve a significant amount of cardio? I assume with substances like tren, cardio will be very low intensity, I'm totally in the same boat thinking about substances to create an effective cutting cycle, and how to approach it diet and exercise wise.

My choices as a second cycle were Test, mast and clen/var with an AI.

Tren sounds very powerful but I dont know if the severity or the cardio issues would stop you from performing.

[tomsammce]

t3 in nz is quite difficult to get hold of and there is a shit load more t4 floating round. ppl will try pass u off t4 as t3.

i had this done to me when i first started my steroid use...

got the c*nt back good though.

:grin:

[clash]

Agree with SM that exogenous T4 is practically useless in point of increasing metabolism. T4 converts to T3 in the liver & kidneys. Best just add in T3. Also I would like to see the clinical study to back up your statement highlighted.

It was first bought to my attention in Chemical Muscle Enhancement" Pg. 109.

There is far to much to txt and I covered this basically in my supposedly controversial quote. I was intrigued by this and further research seemed to support. this. With the support of my doctor, my personal experience proved this to in fact be true.

I have since prescribed the same course to at least 5 other individuals and blood test taken every 3 months over 18months have proven that it is common for individuals to realise an "increase" in endogenous thyroid hormone production of 120-130% within 3 - 15 days after drug discontinuance.

It has been 4 years since my last course T3. I recently had my quarterly blood tests done and my endogenous thyroid hormone production is still 120% higher than the blood test taken 2 days prior to beginning my course of T3.

This occurrence can easily be researched but if people are still sceptical you are welcome to PM me and I will email you the blood tests, or point you in the direction of the studies done on this :-)

I'm not saying you are wrong about endogenous increases in T3 production after a cycle. It may well be the case but I find it hard to understand if you reset your base rates each time you did a cycle of T3 that it would increase each time by 10 - 25%. This would have some top BBers running crazy levels of metabolism. I have never heard of this happening. Are they permanent changes that you have noticed in your peoples experience or does the body revert to homeostasis in a period of time & typically what period of time is this?

I do know that you can cause the thyroid to cease T3 production & shut down the closed loop feedback process out of the pituitary gland where it has been over used or dosed too high for too long. So it should be treated with great respect by users IMO.

Although occasionally people can realise this increase above original baseline more than once, there is no hard evidence of this and in fact it appears to be a phenomenon that only occurs after the first course of T3 and only if the course is dosed correctly over a period of 4-8weeks. I know of one person that has achieved a respectable increase each of the two times they took a course of T3 but the duration between courses was 3 years.

[clash]

t3 in nz is quite difficult to get hold of and there is a shit load more t4 floating round. ppl will try pass u off t4 as t3.

i had this done to me when i first started my steroid use...

got the c*nt back good though.

:grin:

T3 is no longer available on prescription in NZ and the importation of tablets will get you bitten every time. To make tablets here in NZ in mcg dose is very difficult without incredibly expensive equipment...so yes T4 does often get passed off as T3 at exuberant prices. There is very good quality liquid oral T3 available though.

[musclenz]

It was first bought to my attention in Chemical Muscle Enhancement" Pg. 109.

There is far to much to txt and I covered this basically in my supposedly controversial quote. I was intrigued by this and further research seemed to support. this. With the support of my doctor, my personal experience proved this to in fact be true.

I have since prescribed the same course to at least 5 other individuals and blood test taken every 3 months over 18months have proven that it is common for individuals to realise an "increase" in endogenous thyroid hormone production of 120-130% within 3 - 15 days after drug discontinuance.

It has been 4 years since my last course T3. I recently had my quarterly blood tests done and my endogenous thyroid hormone production is still 120% higher than the blood test taken 2 days prior to beginning my course of T3.

This occurrence can easily be researched but if people are still sceptical you are welcome to PM me and I will email you the blood tests, or point you in the direction of the studies done on this :-)

I'm not saying you are wrong about endogenous increases in T3 production after a cycle. It may well be the case but I find it hard to understand if you reset your base rates each time you did a cycle of T3 that it would increase each time by 10 - 25%. This would have some top BBers running crazy levels of metabolism. I have never heard of this happening. Are they permanent changes that you have noticed in your peoples experience or does the body revert to homeostasis in a period of time & typically what period of time is this?

I do know that you can cause the thyroid to cease T3 production & shut down the closed loop feedback process out of the pituitary gland where it has been over used or dosed too high for too long. So it should be treated with great respect by users IMO.

Although occasionally people can realise this increase above original baseline more than once, there is no hard evidence of this and in fact it appears to be a phenomenon that only occurs after the first course of T3 and only if the course is dosed correctly over a period of 4-8weeks. I know of one person that has achieved a respectable increase each of the two times they took a course of T3 but the duration between courses was 3 years.

Very interesting. I have learnt quite a lot about T3 & the thyroid reading this thread. Guess I'm a bit interested as running a small cycle atm. Good stuff tks.