4 cycles over 2years - Android's stats

[musclenz]

Starting to show your age Opti :pfft: What Test esters did you use in the Test only cycle & how often did you ping them?

Was it the tapper up and down that gave it away? Can't remember exactly but looked something like this ... approx 5 years ago now since I had anything on board!

Test Cypionate (Depo) 100mg/ml

First 1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

Sustanon 250

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

Cypionate ....

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days)- start TT ( and Trib 3000mg per day) 4 weeks

1ml (5 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

About 6 - 8 weeks minimum between cycles

Cypionate is a great product IMo - sustanon is kind of the lazy mans test but its reliable .... have had access to propinate on its own over the years but tried a shot early on in my experimental days and had a 4 hour reaction to it that involved cold sweats, running nose and a serious welt on my ass ..... have you ever tried driving on one butt cheek for a week? :pfft:

Back then there were not a lot of guys willing to talk openly about cycles etc so read a bit and experimented until you were not the skinny white guy anymore and a few of the more "accomplished" guys would open up.

Never seen Cypionate at 100mg/ml. Sounds like Primo :grin: Interesting taper. I can never quite see the point of tapering up into the cycle. Seems like a waste of time to me but I have tapered out on some occassions & used Dbol in a taper as well with good results. Sort of a soft landing before PCT or negates the need for PCT if the cycle was low level. 5 years dry Opti. You must be getting "hungry" again :pfft:

[Optimass]

100mg/ml Cypionate ... comes in 200mg/ml also

http://www.pfizer.com/files/products/uspi_depo_testosterone.pdf

I'm always hungry ... nomnomnom :pfft:

I stopped to have kids ... like Android I have an understanding partner, but when we wanted to have kids I didn't want to take the risk of having any issues with the kids that could be pegged back from HRT. So descided to play it safe.

have used dbol on tapers too - probably the best way to taper in all honesty. i think the taper up is important as I use the sides as a gauge (where it starts to show first) ... if I start to get acne on my forearms I'll add an extra day between sites or slightly lower dose. if you are getting sides - its definately working.

[Android]

Starting to show your age Opti :pfft: What Test esters did you use in the Test only cycle & how often did you ping them?

Was it the tapper up and down that gave it away? Can't remember exactly but looked something like this ... approx 5 years ago now since I had anything on board!

Test Cypionate (Depo) 100mg/ml

First 1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

Sustanon 250

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

Cypionate ....

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days)- start TT ( and Trib 3000mg per day) 4 weeks

1ml (5 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

About 6 - 8 weeks minimum between cycles

Cypionate is a great product IMo - sustanon is kind of the lazy mans test but its reliable .... have had access to propinate on its own over the years but tried a shot early on in my experimental days and had a 4 hour reaction to it that involved cold sweats, running nose and a serious welt on my ass ..... have you ever tried driving on one butt cheek for a week? :pfft:

Back then there were not a lot of guys willing to talk openly about cycles etc so read a bit and experimented until you were not the skinny white guy anymore and a few of the more "accomplished" guys would open up.

Never seen Cypionate at 100mg/ml. Sounds like Primo :grin: Interesting taper. I can never quite see the point of tapering up into the cycle. Seems like a waste of time to me but I have tapered out on some occassions & used Dbol in a taper as well with good results. Sort of a soft landing before PCT or negates the need for PCT if the cycle was low level. 5 years dry Opti. You must be getting "hungry" again :pfft:

That looks like the Pharmac subsidised depot a doctor prescribes, 100mg/ml.

The tapering...I was under the impression that when your receptors were virgin the body was highly responsive to smaller doses, and as testosterone is a desensitizer then more is needed to achieve the same absorption/ taken-up, hence the pyramid up.

The taper down has always eluded me though, can anyone think of a good reason to taper?

I can think of just one...perhaps if the doses were extremely high or was Tren and the the body was severely suppressed you might lighten-up in an effort not to totally crash....otherwise why prolong low doses (remembering that earlier doses of test have already desensitized the receptors so less again at the taper is even less)?

[tomsammce]

andriod, interesting read.. some i would agree with what u do and looks good other things i disagree with but as you say its your way and thats fine. you have gained good weight.

not havn a crack but couldnt helpt to disagree opti... you saying sus is a lazy mans test... so what diff did u notcie between cyp and sus... im pretty sure you would feel same on both and get similiar results. yes i have used both on separate ocasions.

counds abit like ppl who say test c and test e are diff... come on..

[Android]

andriod, interesting read.. some i would agree with what u do and looks good other things i disagree with but as you say its your way and thats fine. you have gained good weight.

not havn a crack but couldnt helpt to disagree opti... you saying sus is a lazy mans test... so what diff did u notcie between cyp and sus... im pretty sure you would feel same on both and get similiar results. yes i have used both on separate ocasions.

counds abit like ppl who say test c and test e are diff... come on..

No worries tomsammce, cheers

Personally I can't tell the difference between Test-E and Test-C ml for ml in the gym or the gains, but somehow my misses can.

Sustanon is great too but got a bad wrap when the internet came along and people saw crazy release times of this blend of tests. It was touted ot be a steroid you could pin less often.

I believe if you pin it like 250mg twice a week, 250mg 3 times a week, etc) then you'll get a steady stable release after a couple of weeks. Try overlaying 6 of those crazy Sustanon graphs over each other 2-3 days apart and you'll see a straight line 4 sure.

[musclenz]

Was it the tapper up and down that gave it away? Can't remember exactly but looked something like this ... approx 5 years ago now since I had anything on board!

Test Cypionate (Depo) 100mg/ml

First 1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

Sustanon 250

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

Cypionate ....

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days)- start TT ( and Trib 3000mg per day) 4 weeks

1ml (5 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

About 6 - 8 weeks minimum between cycles

Cypionate is a great product IMo - sustanon is kind of the lazy mans test but its reliable .... have had access to propinate on its own over the years but tried a shot early on in my experimental days and had a 4 hour reaction to it that involved cold sweats, running nose and a serious welt on my ass ..... have you ever tried driving on one butt cheek for a week? :pfft:

Back then there were not a lot of guys willing to talk openly about cycles etc so read a bit and experimented until you were not the skinny white guy anymore and a few of the more "accomplished" guys would open up.

Never seen Cypionate at 100mg/ml. Sounds like Primo :grin: Interesting taper. I can never quite see the point of tapering up into the cycle. Seems like a waste of time to me but I have tapered out on some occassions & used Dbol in a taper as well with good results. Sort of a soft landing before PCT or negates the need for PCT if the cycle was low level. 5 years dry Opti. You must be getting "hungry" again :pfft:

That looks like the Pharmac subsidised depot a doctor prescribes, 100mg/ml.

The tapering...I was under the impression that when your receptors were virgin the body was highly responsive to smaller doses, and as testosterone is a desensitizer then more is needed to achieve the same absorption/ taken-up, hence the pyramid up.

The taper down has always eluded me though, can anyone think of a good reason to taper?

I can think of just one...perhaps if the doses were extremely high or was Tren and the the body was severely suppressed you might lighten-up in an effort not to totally crash....otherwise why prolong low doses (remembering that earlier doses of test have already desensitized the receptors so less again at the taper is even less)?

The Androgen Receptors are not desensitised by exogenous test but the HPTA is indeed shutdown & LH from the pituitary is ceased by as little as 200mg exo test PW. Yes in first time users there are some that believe it better to start at a low dose & many get good gains off 200mg but many factors come into play like age, body type, natty test levels, diet & intensity of training. The taper out was the method used before anti estrogens came into play. It allows the body time to restore homeostasis between the the testosterone & estrogen ratio without the crash associated with going cold turkey after a cycle. Compounds like Zinc, Tribulis, Horny Goat, ZMA can be used to stimulate natty levels again.

[Optimass]

That looks like the Pharmac subsidised depot a doctor prescribes, 100mg/ml.

:nod:

not havn a crack but couldnt helpt to disagree opti... you saying sus is a lazy mans test... so what diff did u notcie between cyp and sus... im pretty sure you would feel same on both and get similiar results. yes i have used both on separate ocasions

Misunderstand .... probably my poor choice of words. Android answered my point here ...

Sustanon is great too but got a bad wrap when the internet came along and people saw crazy release times of this blend of tests. It was touted ot be a steroid you could pin less often.

It still is a medicine that can be used on a weekly basis with good effect. (7 days - in the context of HRT, but not ness for muscle gain on its own)

Cyp is different mate - sus can take up to a few weeks before you feel an escalation in your pump/strength etc. I noticed with cyp within a few days. Not sure if its got something to do with it not being a blend but a standalone? MNZ/AD?

The taper out was the method used before anti estrogens came into play. It allows the body time to restore homeostasis between the the testosterone & estrogen ratio without the crash associated with going cold turkey after a cycle

there is a lot of logic behind it - gradual drop in test levels + add in supplements to help restore natural production (easier off low dose cycle and short/med acting) creates a glide path = no/low crash.

My understanding is that if you supress your estrogen production, as soon as it kicks back in your body over produces it (creates a spike) in reaction to not having any in your system = gyno anyway. That's a question I've always wanted to be confirmed?

[musclenz]

"My understanding is that if you supress your estrogen production, as soon as it kicks back in your body over produces it (creates a spike) in reaction to not having any in your system = gyno anyway. That's a question I've always wanted to be confirmed?"

Often referred to as Rebound. Occurs when you have been on heavy AI like Femara for initial gyno lumps then cease & the lumps come back often worse. The way to avoid this is to taper off onto a SERM ( Nolva) or a lesser AI like Arimidex at a low dose.

[Pete_S]

That looks like the Pharmac subsidised depot a doctor prescribes, 100mg/ml.

:nod:

not havn a crack but couldnt helpt to disagree opti... you saying sus is a lazy mans test... so what diff did u notcie between cyp and sus... im pretty sure you would feel same on both and get similiar results. yes i have used both on separate ocasions

Misunderstand .... probably my poor choice of words. Android answered my point here ...

Sustanon is great too but got a bad wrap when the internet came along and people saw crazy release times of this blend of tests. It was touted ot be a steroid you could pin less often.

It still is a medicine that can be used on a weekly basis with good effect. (7 days - in the context of HRT, but not ness for muscle gain on its own)

Cyp is different mate - sus can take up to a few weeks before you feel an escalation in your pump/strength etc. I noticed with cyp within a few days. Not sure if its got something to do with it not being a blend but a standalone? MNZ/AD?

Cypionate is basically the same ester as Enanthate. They like to call it Cyp in the USA and Enth in Europe - not sure why. Both these esters will take longer to kick in then a test blend like Sustanon (due to Sus having some % of a short ester). You wont notice anything from Cypionate in a few days - it was likely pychological). As for Sustanon being an inferior test this is a load of rubbish as mg for mg test is test. The only exception to this is that test base (suspension) mg for mg is stronger due to suspension having no ester weight. IMO - test suspension is the best test but only used under the right set of circumstances

[Optimass]

:pfft: thanks Pete .... insta-strength = when my brain tells me I'm stronger :pfft:

Never knew it was test-e. I'm still learning things every week on this forum.

[Android]

.......

The taper out was the method used before anti estrogens came into play. It allows the body time to 1. restore homeostasis between the the testosterone & estrogen ratio without the crash associated with going cold turkey after a cycle

there is a lot of logic behind it - 2. gradual drop in test levels + add in supplements to help restore natural production (easier off low dose cycle and short/med acting) creates a glide path = no/low crash.

My understanding is that if you supress your estrogen production, as soon as it kicks back in your body over produces it (creates a spike) in reaction to not having any in your system = gyno anyway. That's a question I've always wanted to be confirmed?

I'll buy into #1 for now.

1. This sounds ok

2. This doesn't

Unless I missed a memo, your body won't kick in natural test until every mg of extra test has left the body. So supplementing while the test levels are gradually dropping is futile.

I take (Nutrex's Vitrix or Tribulus) and ZMA during my PCT but like taking a daily Multi-Vit I honestly never know whether it's helping, to me it's nutritional insurance.

[Chemo]

Is trib even effective for pct? My understanding is that it works of the Pituitary and may increase LH

You feel it is that effective?

[Oblix]

a

[Android]

Thats actually 1 cycle, with very short breaks your taking, not nearly enought for the AAS to actually fully clear your system. You generally need to stay off for a good 4-6months to see how much you can keep without the AAS.

Or just stay on AAS for life, which most people generally do, nothing wrong with that, as long as you realise thats what your doing

Remember that 500mg per week will shut your system down just the same as 3000mg per week. Lower dose easier on your body, liver, kidneys heart etc. But your natural test production will totaly shut down with very little AAS added and wont even start to come back untill all the AAS leaves your body.

Not at all, my natural levels from blood tests are always 16-18 at the 6 weeks mark. There's an 8 week break there to coincide with holidays else that would have been 6 weeks as well.

The detectable time for Test-E is 3 months perhaps you were thinking that means AAS is still in my system affecting performance, heart, etc...?

It might be the shortest time you have seen between cycles but if someone does one cycle ranging between 0 - 1000+mg test per week over 2 years I'm pretty sure their hormones and life would be pretty screwed.

[musclenz]

.......

there is a lot of logic behind it - 2. gradual drop in test levels + add in supplements to help restore natural production (easier off low dose cycle and short/med acting) creates a glide path = no/low crash.

My understanding is that if you supress your estrogen production, as soon as it kicks back in your body over produces it (creates a spike) in reaction to not having any in your system = gyno anyway. That's a question I've always wanted to be confirmed?

I'll buy into #1 for now.

1. This sounds ok

2. This doesn't

Unless I missed a memo, your body won't kick in natural test until every mg of extra test has left the body. So supplementing while the test levels are gradually dropping is futile.

I take (Nutrex's Vitrix or Tribulus) and ZMA during my PCT but like taking a daily Multi-Vit I honestly never know whether it's helping, to me it's nutritional insurance.

Its ok to supplement Hcg, Zinc (ZMA) & Tribulis from the last shot of Test IMO to start working on LH production at the Pituitary but yes no sense in supplementing Anti E's till the active life has expired ( TestE is 15 days).

[Pete_S]

I'll buy into #1 for now.

1. This sounds ok

2. This doesn't

Unless I missed a memo, your body won't kick in natural test until every mg of extra test has left the body. So supplementing while the test levels are gradually dropping is futile.

I take (Nutrex's Vitrix or Tribulus) and ZMA during my PCT but like taking a daily Multi-Vit I honestly never know whether it's helping, to me it's nutritional insurance.

Its ok to supplement Hcg, Zinc (ZMA) & Tribulis from the last shot of Test IMO to start working on LH production at the Pituitary but yes no sense in supplementing Anti E's till the active life has expired ( TestE is 15 days).

I now use HCG at 500iu's every 3-4 days will on cycle and HMG as part of PCT depending how big the cycle was - hope this helps

[Android]

That's the first I've ever heard of it, HMG

Cheers Pete_S :-) interesting stuff

Everytime I ask for HCG noone seems to have it.

Will post something in more detail wen I am not using iPhone want to ask u about your experience with HCG

[Optimass]

So then the only real benefit to tapering would be at the start of the cycle on the upward cycle so you could manage/balance your reaction (sides) vs the growth. If I were to go on again I think I'd probably still do this - however a definate review of post cycle routine is required.

This has been a good thread for me - re adjusting my compass so to speak. I think if I had been exposed to more guys at the time, whom were not using the taper method I probably would have applied it in a different way. In saying that I have definately got a lot out of the cycles I have completed.

[Android]

Doesn't make sense but it used to be popular, if it works keep doing it mate :-)

Agree about exposure to big guys. I feel sorry for noobs who are told to read up and know everything before taking their first cycle.

I knew nothing about steroids the entrire 12 week cycle except that my bottles had spelling mistakes on the labels and probably came from Vet bladders of gear for sheep! But I was jabbed twice a week by guys who were 130 and 180kg (not all muscle) and they knew their stuff.

Heard stories how they put so much gear into themselves they would wak up with numb legs and have to massage the oil around the leg until they got feeling back :-| wtf

As promised here's my question around HCG with some background first....

Previous to the 4 cycles I posted here I had done 3 others.

They were the standard 3 months on 3 months off regime , a ml of Sus and a ml of Deca was the norm for the first 2 cycles, last cycle was Test-E/C, and Deca/ Boldenone.

I did some PCT back then with Masterelone (I think it was that...and an occassional 50mg oral test cap) and it was here that I discovered that about 3 weeks after last shot of Test-E my hormonal balance took a dive.

But always the end of the 3rd week off cycle my mind goes cloudy all day every day, not good for a corporate guy...and for 3 days I can't be bothered with doing anything.

I did 2 blood tests for the doctor to try and solve this, one when the low point came in, and one 2 weeks later and had a test level of around 5 the first time, and 18 the 2nd time (end of week 4).

The doctor said it wasn't when my test was 0 this was happening it was just prior to that when it was on the way down that other hormones are re-adjusting.

So ever since I have tried various PCT (except HCG) and as mentioned before DHEA has softened this to almost nothing and I'm fully functional before week 5 on Test-E, earlier on Prop/Orals.

I am interested in how someone who takes HCG feels, there's got to be that difference in feeling between on-gear and off-gear and when does this happen for someone taking HCG and how pronounced is it?

Do you just feel like nothing's changed or do you also have a period of time where you're not quite the same?

I forgot to mention in the last 4 cycles I did take some Insulin, and some Anapalon. Can't remember everything I have tried :-)

Anyone else ever tried "Filybol" :-) - just say neighhhh

[musclenz]

Doesn't make sense but it used to be popular, if it works keep doing it mate :-)

Agree about exposure to big guys. I feel sorry for noobs who are told to read up and know everything before taking their first cycle.

I knew nothing about steroids the entrire 12 week cycle except that my bottles had spelling mistakes on the labels and probably came from Vet bladders of gear for sheep! But I was jabbed twice a week by guys who were 130 and 180kg (not all muscle) and they knew their stuff.

Heard stories how they put so much gear into themselves they would wak up with numb legs and have to massage the oil around the leg until they got feeling back :-| wtf

As promised here's my question around HCG with some background first....

Previous to the 4 cycles I posted here I had done 3 others.

They were the standard 3 months on 3 months off regime , a ml of Sus and a ml of Deca was the norm for the first 2 cycles, last cycle was Test-E/C, and Deca/ Boldenone.

I did some PCT back then with Masterelone (I think it was that...and an occassional 50mg oral test cap) and it was here that I discovered that about 3 weeks after last shot of Test-E my hormonal balance took a dive.

But always the end of the 3rd week off cycle my mind goes cloudy all day every day, not good for a corporate guy...and for 3 days I can't be bothered with doing anything.

I did 2 blood tests for the doctor to try and solve this, one when the low point came in, and one 2 weeks later and had a test level of around 5 the first time, and 18 the 2nd time (end of week 4).

The doctor said it wasn't when my test was 0 this was happening it was just prior to that when it was on the way down that other hormones are re-adjusting.

So ever since I have tried various PCT (except HCG) and as mentioned before DHEA has softened this to almost nothing and I'm fully functional before week 5 on Test-E, earlier on Prop/Orals.

I am interested in how someone who takes HCG feels, there's got to be that difference in feeling between on-gear and off-gear and when does this happen for someone taking HCG and how pronounced is it?

Do you just feel like nothing's changed or do you also have a period of time where you're not quite the same?

I forgot to mention in the last 4 cycles I did take some Insulin, and some Anapalon. Can't remember everything I have tried :-)

Anyone else ever tried "Filybol" :-) - just say neighhhh

as Hone said Hcg is probably best used on cycle.at around 500iu PW. You cease taking it 3-5 days after your last test shot. Because it has mimiced LH from the pituitary on cycle there is an easier transition into PCT & generally LH is restored faster & natty test kicks in earlier. Thats the theory anyway. So effectively it might take out that low point 2-3 weeks after your last shot. You still need to go into PCT after 2 weeks to lower estrogen which Hcg will not do. It is not an anti-E. Otherwise you start Hcg if used as a restart mechanism right after your last Test shot. In this case you need around 5000iu spread over 5-7 days. Generally 2-3 shots is the norm. Thats my understanding of the its use although it is not a drug I have used often :wink:

Ranvet in Australia still advertise Filybol. There was some comments about its use on EF & other forums about a year ago. Its a mix of Methandriol Dipropionate & nandrolone. I dont now anything about MD. Was it pretty highly regarded?

[Android]

Thanx musclenz I need to try HCG some time to see what it does and that dosing will help

Filybol is good like any Prop or Suspension strength gain is high, there's another one similar that's the MD and Eq (short-acting) can't remember what it's called but not tried.

[Hone]

Interesting post Android, thanks for taking the time to post it. Great to hear that sensible use of ASS has had a good impact on your life. Although I would cut down the smoking the weed every day, that shit will f*ck you up :grin:

As musclenz mentioned I have used HCG and find it really effective. I have used it while blast cruising, on cycle and in between cycle and starting PCT.

I'm tied up till the weekend but will get back to you and go into a bit more detail plus will mention a couple of other meds I use to keep things like DHT at bay.

[Android]

Cheers Hone, LOL no weed in 10 yearrs not going back to that again

Appreicate your insight into the aeffect HCG has on improving the transition from cycle to off-cycle.

[WANABJAKD]

i decided to not use HCG during this cycle to compare the difference in PCT recovery. now that im going to add tren to the mix for the rest of this cycle. the shutdown might make for an unfavourable variable

[soundsgood]

Great read Android, a pleasure to hear from you again.

But it all counts for nothing if you don't jump back on stage and show it off properly mate hahaha