4 cycles over 2years - Android's stats

[Android]

Gidday guys,

I used to post on the forums but now just read them occasionally and wanted to present a bit of reality to the subject of enhanced bodybuilders, with facts and figures.

November 2008 I was 99kg and 12% b.f

2 years later and I have reached 118kg on cycle at 16% b.f. Am off-cycle now and maintaining 112kg.

Firstly, if you follow this regime then you're an idiot.

Your body is hopefully different to mine, you workout with a different intensity, and you eat different foods at different times of the day to me.

Maybe you make better choices, maybe not...the point is that you're not like me and this is just what I do...I mean what I have done.

As Toney Freeman once said at a seminar when someone (not me) asked him what exercises he did, he replied:

"What will telling you what I do help you with? What I do today didn't get me this body, what I have been doing over the last 20 years has made it and we don't have time to go into 20 years of exercises".

So ditto

I've done 2 cycles per year since the start of 2009, gaining on average 4kg lean muscle per year taking %b.f changes into account. That's 4kg per year, or 2kg per cycle.

This information will not be of any use to small guys wanting to see what it takes to get big, see bottom of page for my first cycle at 76kg taking me to 84kg over 12 weeks.

If you're small, skinny, or not too big, you will be able to make greater gains than this. Once you get some muscle mass you'll find the gains harder and your meals become more important.

Anyway, back to cycles....

I now do 4-5 month cycles and wait a couple of weeks as a natty before starting the next one.

I never ever end cycles on Sus250, Deca, or any other long-acting compound - ouch.

The 4 cycles were as follows:

(Start weight is natural weight, i.e. I can maintain this weight without gear).

Cycle 1: (4 1/2 mths)

Start Weight 99kg (12% b.f)

First 6 weeks took Sus250 and Deca, 1.5ml of each compound per week. Two 10ml bottles lasted me 6 weeks.

Then I did the next 6 weeks using same dosage but with Test-E and Boldenone.

At the end of the 12 weeks and thanks in part to the Boldenone my muscles were hard 24/7 and I was as strong as a horse.

There was no way I would come off cycle feeling so good and making good gains. Even though I had set out to do a shorter cycle I listened to my body and modified.

I continued with 2ml of Test-E per week for another 5 weeks taking this cycle to just over 4 months. Occasionally I would add 1ml of Tren A for heavy Leg or Back workouts.

That cycle cost me $60/wk I only took multi-vits with it, no other supplements. And of course alot of food.

Training style was mixed, some weeks high volume low weight, some weeks low reps heavy weight stuff just mixing it up.

PCT was x1 Clenbuterol tab (40mcg) and a Nolvadex tab (20mg).

End Weight 108kg

6 weeks break

Cycle 2: (5 mths)

Start Weight 105kg (15% b.f)

Took Deca and Test-E and front-loaded with DBols. First week 25mg/day, then 50mg/day for next 4 weeks.

Running 2ml of Test and 1ml of Deca per week (400mg + 200mg). After 10 weeks I got some vet-grade Suspension and just did 2 weeks of that.

20ml bottle should last 3 weeks, I took it in 2 weeks at 1gm Test per week. I pinned half ml in the AM and other half ml in the PM because of the short half-life of this compound.

After 4 days it hit me and the results were super-human. Did the usual 12-15 rep set with heavy weight but sometimes 4 - 6 sets for this cycle.

I was swole like never before, super strong, and hungry for more in the gym. It was at this time I split my back into 2 workouts

just so I could hit it hard with about 8 different exercises per week.

Then went to Test-C, so in the 2nd week of Suspension I took 2ml of Test-C which kicks in about day 5-7, just when I was stopping the Suspension.

Continued with Test-C at 1.5 ml per week for 4 more weeks and then last week chewed some DBols at each workout.

PCT was DHEA and Nolvadex, DHEA worked better than I expected at 100mg/day

End Weight 112kg

2 months break

Cycle 3: (4 1/2 mths)

Start Weight 108kg (15% b.f)

Went on this cycle first with 1ml Sus250 per week and 1ml Tren-A (split twice a week jabs) and 1ml Boldenone for 10 weeks.

Finished cycle with 6 weeks at 1.5ml Test-E per week and Tren-A, then 2 weeks of Prop and DBols.

Most of my training during this cycle was high volume low weight. High volume means 100 leg extension reps, 10 rep 10 set squats with 100kg, 100 rep tricep push downs that kind of volume.

PCT was DHEA 100mg/day and Novladex and went so well

End Weight 115kg

6 weeks break

Cycle 4: (5 mths)

Start Weight 110kg (16% b.f)

This became a Test-only cycle, I visited Justin Reece last year and we talked about bodybuilding and just running Test compounds so I decided to give that a go.

I reached my largest size ever of 118kg, running relatively low doses of Test.

1ml of 200mg Test-E every 5 days for 12 weeks was all I took, that equates to 280mg/week and workouts felt great.

I ate up to 1kg chicken breast each day and lots of white rice (my usual daytime food)

This cycle went for 5 mths and in last 2 months I added in 1 ml of 100mg Prop just on Leg days.

That's 400mg per week of Test. Nothing else.

PCT was DHEA and hardly any Nolvadex. Went overseas and could only take the DHEA with me.

End Weight 118kg

So that's my last 4 cycles.

When I finished cycle 4 my arms were 20.5" after their workout, and thighs were 28" after their workout. I am 6' tall.

Cycle 5: (tbd)

Start Weight (112kg)

End Weight (120kg)

NOTE on PCT:

My choice of PCT is a personal one from cycles of trial and error.

I haven't found the need for anything more than Nolvadex and without DHEA 2 things happen to me.

Firstly assuming I am coming off Test-E then about 3-4 weeks after the last shot I get a week of a cloudy mind, and 3 of those days lethargy takes over.

Doc says it's the Adrenal glands and other hormones re-adjusting. It makes me feel like absolute shit, no appetite or motivation and I can lose many kg during that week.

Since using DHEA from week 2 onwards I have not had that happen to me ever again.

Secondly, if you've ever tried going to the gym while off the gear and on PCT...the motivation to go heavy has gone,

That nice feeling of blood pumping through the muscle is gone, you feel even less than how the natural guys in the gym feel...it's not inspiring at all.

I take 50mg twice a day for 4 weeks starting a week out from the last shot and it sees me right through the "down time".

My nuts drop just fine, libido isn't that far down at any time either.

I don't take Nolvadex every day, just 4-5 times a week because it STOPS estrogen.

Maybe Arimidex is better as it lowers it to a balanced level, whatever, I take a few days off it or skip a pill and am happy with that.

To help PCT go smoothly I don't end on Sus250 (7 weeks before out of system, yeah try managing that...) and I stop Deca early and replace with DBols at the end as well.

DHEA isn't supposed to inhibit your natural Test production which is why I chose it.

I had done 3 cycles previous to these 4 but my 1st was the most memorable, over 10 years ago when I was about 76kg.

I had just joined a gym at 69kg and I put on 1kg/week for 6 weeks. I had been 75kg in my teens so this was re-gained muscle from weights and food.

But over the next few weeks I didn't see any more gains.

So it was time to try gear because I loved seeing gains.

It was the standard 12 week pyramid-style cycle taking a couple of ml of Testo L.A (50mg) and oil-based Dianabol (50mg), switching to Boldenone (50mg) halfway through.

No PCT, nothing...never felt a come down at all. I ate like a horse when the Boldenone kicked in and was eating 1kg rump steak, 1kg potatoes, 1kg bananas every day.

I went up to 84kg and have never since dropped below that weight, ever, natural or not.

I was smoking weed every single day and occasionally some speed or acid.

I could literally after a workout eat a can of baked beans and feel my muscles soaking them up and stretching in size.

I never took gear again for 6 years and naturally worked up to milestones of 88kg (was that for years), then 93kg, then 99kg.

Anyway, enjoy the stats

[drizzt]

Interesting read Android! Cheers :nod:

[startinfromscratch]

long time no see mate!!!!!!!!!!!

post of the year :nod:

[Pseudonym]

Welcome back Android, and a fantastic post to return on. *Liked*

A few questions around the amount of food you're eating...

- Is this an increased amount on cycle compared to what you'd previously been eating?

- If so, what do you think your gains would be like with just the extra food and no cycle? (Cycle #4 would seem to suggest it's more about food)

- Do you have to keep up that extra food intake in order to maintain your size gains? Or can you afford to drop it back a bit?

[justhell]

cheers Android thats an awsoome read,

heaps of good info,il read that again & again later on.

:nod:

:idea2:

[severe]

Good honest post, Android. Cheers.

[Android]

Cheers all,

Good questions Pseudo...

Food is the most important thing but you can play with your training and adjust food up or down and still make gains.

For the last cycle I ate slightly less than 1kg chicken each day yet for the 2nd cycle I ate 1.5kg chicken each day.

The last cycle I only worked out every 2nd day, while cycle 2 I was doing 6 days a week, 7 days a week during the 2 weeks of Suspension.

So you can eat more or workout less often as I did. Just have to get it out of your head that for some reason you have to train every body part exactly every 7 days. Takes a while because for bodybuilding you are told and believe that the "week" is the almighty amount of lapsed time between workouts.

That said, if you can eat in the area of 5,000-8,000 calories per day and do gear then you can easily train every single day. I cannot seem to eat that much no matter how much I try...job, family, friends, a life etc.

Off-cycle you'd get fatter if you ate as much as you did on cycle so probably have adjust down a bit. I prefer to lower both the protein and the carbs because my workouts are not as tough (slightly less means 2 shakes, 1/2kg chicken, 250gms steak a day).

You may still be giving 100% effort in the gym but without gear your 100% isn't as much as while on it of course.

Every new weight gain is new territory, and you never look as good off the gear as you do on it so. Your muscles aren't as anabolic, whereas before they would hold way more carbs and water, veins would be visible and the full bellied muscle shapes stand out, they now lose size and you look less like a serious bodybuilder again. All par for the course, once you start looking like you have some Mass you realise that steroid use is just temporary gains. There are no new muscle cells built with gear at all. When you're on it you look great, when you're off it you look normal.

Might be why I love the bi-annual cycles with a month off in between ay ;-)

Besides, at $60/week it's cheaper than supplements! Off-cycle I really have to buy things like Tribulus, ZMA, and Jack3d (or The Curse).

[Luigi]

Great post as always android. welcome back

[Optimass]

mate - pleased to see you back and bigger than ever :clap:

[Darwinstef]

Great to see you back Android, always a favourite poster of mine. Great return post as well!

[Grover]

...

Firstly, if you follow this regime then you're an idiot.

...

Great post, informative

At the start you appear to advise against gear ( or am I reading it wrong? annd you mean just don't follow your exact cycle?)

At the end you appear to be committed to using gear?

[Android]

cheers Optimass, Luigi and Co.

Grover, I am definitely pro-gear. I love it for so many reasons.

- Workouts are more enjoyable, they're just as tough but there's an unexplained enjoyment or "rush" you get when you're muscles are swollen.

- I don't strut around the gym but I do enjoy knowing that some people want some of the size of I have obtained or I am the biggest in the gym.

- My career has benefited from having high test levels and thus my family has benefited from the income that generates. (I've gone from earning $40k end of 2004 to $150k this year greatly due to my assertiveness, confidence, and not just letting things happen to me)

My character has changed from being a follower just taking each day as it comes to me, towards being a leader who makes things happen around me, sort of controlling ones destiny.

I LOVE GEAR!

- People remember me. Kind of sounds weird but each of us is remembered by people for any number of things. Fat guy, smelly guy, arrogant guy, funny guy etc. I'm remembered by people as the big guy :-) the bodybuilder in a company of thousands of employees more people know "of" me than I know of them. Talk about a head swell!

But I have to be conscious of the stigma associated with it, thanks in part to the heavy users and extreme cases. I am one of few people around that openly admit to taking it, in the gyms and in the competitions. Some do not say they use due to sponsorship, family and friends, work reasons, the cheating stigma, etc. I don't have sponsorship, my family accepts it, work know I do HRT, and the cheating part...well I have conveniently adopted Kai Greene's opinion on bodybuilding. That it's an Art not a Sport. Give me one sport that competes by not doing what the athletes do all year round, lifting weights. It's purely aesthetic and doesn't reward things like strength or endurance. You pose your best and you are judged on "how you look". Pub Darts is more of a sport than bodybuilding.

I gave my disclaimer at the start because I have to be responsible. I don't want anyone to follow what I have done just in case it could hurt someone. i.e. they already have a bad liver, or they react badly to some gear I've suggested. This is a person's health, their life.

What if they took Tren just because I said I took it and it would be good and they were having family problems at home...too much Tren could tip someone over the edge to lose their cool and strike out.

Read Cycle 1 again, read where it says "took Tren occasionally" and then know that I went up on an Assault charge on a cyclist during that cycle. Yeah, now its getting real ay

[AgentOrange]

My career has benefited from having high test levels and thus my family has benefited from the income that generates. (I've gone from earning $40k end of 2004 to $150k this year greatly due to my assertiveness, confidence, and not just letting things happen to me)

My character has changed from being a follower just taking each day as it comes to me, towards being a leader who makes things happen around me, sort of controlling ones destiny.

I LOVE GEAR!

Def sounds like high testosterone raises/increases Alpha male characteristics, interesting.

[musclenz]

Awesome post & comments Android & nice to see you back. The one thing I like about your cycles, other than your hard work & dedication in the gym & your food plan, is that you are using sensible cycles consisting of a variety of compounds cycling in & out & at relatively low doses. Others can see that more is not always best. I guess what you have found is that gear ramps up your metabolism considerably & high doses become self defeating in many cases. I know many of us are guilty of using more & more to reach our goals but you have proved that this is not really necessary & in fact can be detrimental to solid & continuous gains. I'm impressed with your use of DHEA in PCT. Its not something that is advocated often but maybe it is something we should consider more. I'm also very impressed how you have used your AAS usage to better yourself in your career & personal life. This is often an overlooked aspect of having good stable levels of test in our bodies & the many positive "side effects" of this. Congratulations in your excellent achievements with your body & your life. You will be an inspiration to many of us on here particularly the guys new to the game.

Respect,

R

[Chemo]

Wow, you started out at a very humble weight, amazing to see where you are now, did you ever think youd be that big?. When you first started did you have any doubts, regrets or ethical issues you had to overcome?

I am one of few people around that openly admit to taking it, in the gyms and in the competitions. Some do not say they use due to sponsorship, family and friends, work reasons, the cheating stigma, etc. I don't have sponsorship, my family accepts it, work know I do HRT, and the cheating part...well I have conveniently adopted Kai Greene's opinion on bodybuilding. That it's an Art not a Sport. Give me one sport that competes by not doing what the athletes do all year round, lifting weights. It's purely aesthetic and doesn't reward things like strength or endurance. You pose your best and you are judged on "how you look". Pub Darts is more of a sport than bodybuilding.

Wow, I gotta lot of respect for that man. Most seem to think hiding the fact you use gear is in one's best interest. Good to see you bringing the subject out into the light, I'm sure anyone around you has benefited from the knowledge which I assume you would openly provide.

Good read bro, I like the way you set up your cycles, I've never really seen anything like that explained in detail yet.

[Optimass]

Welcome back Android, and a fantastic post to return on. *Liked*

A few questions around the amount of food you're eating...

- Is this an increased amount on cycle compared to what you'd previously been eating?

- If so, what do you think your gains would be like with just the extra food and no cycle? (Cycle #4 would seem to suggest it's more about food)

- Do you have to keep up that extra food intake in order to maintain your size gains? Or can you afford to drop it back a bit?

Cycle 4: (5 mths)

Start Weight 110kg (16% b.f)

This became a Test-only cycle, I visited Justin Reece last year and we talked about bodybuilding and just running Test compounds so I decided to give that a go.

I reached my largest size ever of 118kg, running relatively low doses of Test.

1ml of 200mg Test-E every 5 days for 12 weeks was all I took, that equates to 280mg/week and workouts felt great.

I ate up to 1kg chicken breast each day and lots of white rice (my usual daytime food)

This cycle went for 5 mths and in last 2 months I added in 1 ml of 100mg Prop just on Leg days.

That's 400mg per week of Test. Nothing else.

PCT was DHEA and hardly any Nolvadex. Went overseas and could only take the DHEA with me.

End Weight 118kg

I had followed a very similar format in my last (maxx 600mg per week), which I think is still quite mild, but increased my caloric load by only 20% at the time. (aprox 500 cals- majority of which were from protein) ... still gained 12kg on test only cycle. Was the 2nd test only cycle I had run in 2 years (at the time) and found the end result always made me harder looking - (the real rope'y looking muscle you see on vetran bodybuilders).

Only other deviations were cycle down - no PCT but used a lot of trib and a product call testatropinol (pro-hormone).

http://www.themanschoice.com/Testatropinol.html

The food is important of course but IMo its about making sure everything is aligned ...

Sleep

Food

Resistance Training - low rep/heavy - bulk compound - frequency

Cardio (yes is important IMO)

Massage and stretch - for conditioning

mental focus

....

[musclenz]

Welcome back Android, and a fantastic post to return on. *Liked*

A few questions around the amount of food you're eating...

- Is this an increased amount on cycle compared to what you'd previously been eating?

- If so, what do you think your gains would be like with just the extra food and no cycle? (Cycle #4 would seem to suggest it's more about food)

- Do you have to keep up that extra food intake in order to maintain your size gains? Or can you afford to drop it back a bit?

Cycle 4: (5 mths)

Start Weight 110kg (16% b.f)

This became a Test-only cycle, I visited Justin Reece last year and we talked about bodybuilding and just running Test compounds so I decided to give that a go.

I reached my largest size ever of 118kg, running relatively low doses of Test.

1ml of 200mg Test-E every 5 days for 12 weeks was all I took, that equates to 280mg/week and workouts felt great.

I ate up to 1kg chicken breast each day and lots of white rice (my usual daytime food)

This cycle went for 5 mths and in last 2 months I added in 1 ml of 100mg Prop just on Leg days.

That's 400mg per week of Test. Nothing else.

PCT was DHEA and hardly any Nolvadex. Went overseas and could only take the DHEA with me.

End Weight 118kg

I had followed a very similar format in my last (maxx 600mg per week), which I think is still quite mild, but increased my caloric load by only 20% at the time. (aprox 500 cals- majority of which were from protein) ... still gained 12kg on test only cycle. Was the 2nd test only cycle I had run in 2 years (at the time) and found the end result always made me harder looking - (the real rope'y looking muscle you see on vetran bodybuilders).

Only other deviations were cycle down - no PCT but used a lot of trib and a product call testatropinol (pro-hormone).

http://www.themanschoice.com/Testatropinol.html

The food is important of course but IMo its about making sure everything is aligned ...

Sleep

Food

Resistance Training - low rep/heavy - bulk compound - frequency

Cardio (yes is important IMO)

Massage and stretch - for conditioning

mental focus

....

Starting to show your age Opti :pfft: What Test esters did you use in the Test only cycle & how often did you ping them?

[Android]

Awesome post & comments Android & nice to see you back. The one thing I like about your cycles, other than your hard work & dedication in the gym & your food plan, is that you are using sensible cycles consisting of a variety of compounds cycling in & out & at relatively low doses. Others can see that more is not always best. I guess what you have found is that gear ramps up your metabolism considerably & high doses become self defeating in many cases. I know many of us are guilty of using more & more to reach our goals but you have proved that this is not really necessary & in fact can be detrimental to solid & continuous gains. I'm impressed with your use of DHEA in PCT. Its not something that is advocated often but maybe it is something we should consider more. I'm also very impressed how you have used your AAS usage to better yourself in your career & personal life. This is often an overlooked aspect of having good stable levels of test in our bodies & the many positive "side effects" of this. Congratulations in your excellent achievements with your body & your life. You will be an inspiration to many of us on here particularly the guys new to the game.

Respect,

R

Thanks for the kind words musclenz 8)

Cheers Darwinstef and all others, I thought it would be an interesting to read for everyone and well received

Here's a pic at my 118kg limit. Sorry it's a screen grab of a video, the lighting is poor and I'm a bit twisted in the shot

[Android]

Better shot better lighting

At the start of every cycle I ask myself what I want to achieve. This last cycle wasn't about my Back but it's become my favourite part and am stoked that Jamie C told me to improve my lower traps. My inner back was missing quality muscle and heavy weights doesn't help. That area needs light weight super wide grips and a bit of using the mind to squeeze the Back. Kinda hard to squeeze the back this way it's a flat muscle and not like a bicep which you can curl to squeeze.

Anyway....

In cycle 1 my goal was "I want to be bigger (110kg was my goal weight...didn't quite make it)"

In cycle 2 it was "I want to be bigger again (115kg was my goal weight..didn't quite make it again!)"

In cycle 3 it was "Bigger Legs and improve my inner Back"

In cycle 4 it was "Bigger Legs and improve my Triceps"

Next cycle will be "Bigger Legs, improve my Shoulders and Arms"

[Android]

Last post just screen-grabbing while I have the time.

I think this was also at 118kg and b.f was about 15-16%

Quads

Side/Hammies

[severe]

Def sounds like high testosterone raises/increases Alpha male characteristics, interesting.

Got that 'Swagger' too, bro?

It's definately an aspect that others notice, at least where I work. 8)

[AgentOrange]

Def sounds like high testosterone raises/increases Alpha male characteristics, interesting.

Got that 'Swagger' too, bro?

It's definately an aspect that others notice, at least where I work. 8)

sure do, without gear to :pfft: add gear even more so.

Great thread Android, Hope you stick around a while

[Optimass]

Great thread Android, Hope you stick around a while

Speaking of which .... :grin:

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4429&start=840

[AgentOrange]

Great thread Android, Hope you stick around a while

Speaking of which .... :grin:

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4429&start=840

lol no pressure

[Optimass]

Starting to show your age Opti :pfft: What Test esters did you use in the Test only cycle & how often did you ping them?

Was it the tapper up and down that gave it away? Can't remember exactly but looked something like this ... approx 5 years ago now since I had anything on board!

Test Cypionate (Depo) 100mg/ml

First 1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

Sustanon 250

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

1ml (5 days) + 1ml Cyp

Cypionate ....

2ml (5 days)

1ml (5 days)- start TT ( and Trib 3000mg per day) 4 weeks

1ml (5 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

1ml (6 days)

About 6 - 8 weeks minimum between cycles

Cypionate is a great product IMo - sustanon is kind of the lazy mans test but its reliable .... have had access to propinate on its own over the years but tried a shot early on in my experimental days and had a 4 hour reaction to it that involved cold sweats, running nose and a serious welt on my ass ..... have you ever tried driving on one butt cheek for a week? :pfft:

Back then there were not a lot of guys willing to talk openly about cycles etc so read a bit and experimented until you were not the skinny white guy anymore and a few of the more "accomplished" guys would open up.