Squat Depth

[PeterDolan]

The little bodybuilder is like the little half back who stands back and wait until the stoush is all on and then throws a couple of jabs!

I never waited till it was on haha preemptive strikes

I'm not saying you can't squat to parallel and not gain size but you'll be better off going as deep as you can

[nate225]

I don't understand why this is even a discussion. You wouldn't do a half bench press or a half military press so why would you do a half squat? :think: probably cause it's harder?

This is classic Dolan. The little bodybuilder is like the little half back who stands back and wait until the stoush is all on and then throws a couple of jabs!

Plenty of people do half bench presses too mate.

LOL - he's a yappy lil fulla alright - the Jimmy Cowan of NZBB! :grin:

However I agree with Peter on this one - no one would bother arguing the merits of half benches over full benches when it comes to chest development (maybe for shirt training tho), however people want to die in a ditch over their preferred squat depth. Interesting.

[Dr Squat]

The little bodybuilder is like the little half back who stands back and wait until the stoush is all on and then throws a couple of jabs!

I never waited till it was on haha preemptive strikes

I'm not saying you can't squat to parallel and not gain size but you'll be better off going as deep as you can

Agreed. The interesting thing is that I think powerlifters can learn something from this debate. Better leg development has got to help the power squat also. Improving weak points etc. Under the Westside method you do not train the quads directly. Could be a an interesting discussion.

[nate225]

The little bodybuilder is like the little half back who stands back and wait until the stoush is all on and then throws a couple of jabs!

I never waited till it was on haha preemptive strikes

I'm not saying you can't squat to parallel and not gain size but you'll be better off going as deep as you can

Agreed. The interesting thing is that I think powerlifters can learn something from this debate. Better leg development has got to help the power squat also. Improving weak points etc. Under the Westside method you do not train the quads directly. Could be a an interesting discussion.

Comes back to basics....how does one get stronger?

a) Get bigger muscles (mechanical advantage - larger fibres can create greater contractile force)

b) Become more technically proficient / Optimise leverages / shorten ROM's

c) Get more neurologically efficient (able to recruit more fibres, therefore greater contractile force)

Thats the basics, although there probably are a few more ways (changes to intramuscular fluid retention etc, use of stimulants etc although these kinda fit into mechanical advanatge & recruitment respectively).

So Doc's statement is well covered by a) although too much focus on a deep a2g squat may impact on b) if not enough comp squatting is done at the same time.

A good balance between hypertrophy full ROM and comp type squats seems sensible to me to maximise PLing performance.

A bit off topic but interesting (to me anyway).

[Dr Squat]

A good balance between hypertrophy full ROM and comp type squats seems sensible to me to maximise PLing performance.

A bit off topic but interesting (to me anyway).

From a powerbuilding perspective I like to have:

- posterior chain day (lower back, hams, glutes) and select movements such as - box squats, power squats, deadlifts, good mornings.

- quad day- high bar squats, front squats, leg press etc.

[nate225]

A good balance between hypertrophy full ROM and comp type squats seems sensible to me to maximise PLing performance.

A bit off topic but interesting (to me anyway).

From a powerbuilding perspective I like to have:

- posterior chain day (lower back, hams, glutes) and select movements such as - box squats, power squats, deadlifts, good mornings.

- quad day- high bar squats, front squats, leg press etc.

Agreed but as I'm now compressed to 2 days I'd like to ensure I'm doing the same but at a more basic level - one full leg movement along with posterior chain exercises/Box Squats/DL - be it a high bar squat variant or a leg press/hack movement.

Off topic but will f/up with you Doc.

Gotta go roll, but wanted to say amongst the sledging (as tame as it was) this has been a very thought provoking discussion. Found a few of those flecks of gold I look for in discussions and will add to the arsenal.

Cheers guys.

Nate

[funkyfly]

Greatest legs of all time = Full ROM squats

If you want good legs then do any ROM you want.

If you want great legs bring yo ass all the way down to touch your calves! If you're too much of a pussy to want to go that deep, get some bigger fucking calves and you wont have too

I don't understand why this is even a discussion. You wouldn't do a half bench press or a half military press so why would you do a half squat? :think: probably cause it's harder?

http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/e6e82 ... at-workout

No full ROM squats in this session bro.

[PeterDolan]

You are correct there funky but I bet you're only new to this sport. Branch used to squat A2C and eventually he settled for the shorter ROM. Not tryna school ya, just putting the facts out there.

Just like Dorian moved to machines as him preferred mode of mass building for legs, yet he started off with squatting

[Dr Squat]

It's a good debate. Deep squats hurt a lot and they are also difficult to do. I started last year by doing light ones at the end of my quad day to work on technique. Give this ago of you are a sceptic and want to carry on with your traditional leg training.

[Chemo]

I did squats today, and thinking about this thread and trying a little experiment with myself.

Did ass to grass @80kg got 8 on the first set then after that i found 7 and 6 hard @80. Watching my technique though I lost a lot of tension on that bottom third or quarter of the motion, and I felt I didn't recruit my glutes too well. I also really felt pushing past parallel was the hardest part. All in all it was a lil harsh on my spider legs too :3

I had a wee break and then did squats stopping just after the point at which I felt it most difficult, then fired back up. That was a much more powerful contraction, right throughout the quad and in the glute. Slowing it down at that point makes the eccentric element of that movement almost the focus of the lift, almost like the feeling of the box squat when you fire back off.

I could also up the weight and still move the thing.

Would it be fair to say for myself, stopping between parrallel and A2g is better for development?

or Maybe I should work on my flexibility.

[BarBrother]

The little bodybuilder is like the little half back who stands back and wait until the stoush is all on and then throws a couple of jabs!

I never waited till it was on haha preemptive strikes

I'm not saying you can't squat to parallel and not gain size but you'll be better off going as deep as you can

Agreed. The interesting thing is that I think powerlifters can learn something from this debate. Better leg development has got to help the power squat also. Improving weak points etc. Under the Westside method you do not train the quads directly. Could be a an interesting discussion.

Definitley agree Doc,

I think as powerlifters we can think that because we squat deadlift and bench heavy that we pretty much cover the whole body but in fact there are ares which are not focussed on which are important for attaining bigger lifts.

I am in my "off season" atm but focussing on some areas that dont get a lot of attention eg quads as well as othe rlittle things that need attention

[Dr Squat]

I never waited till it was on haha preemptive strikes

I'm not saying you can't squat to parallel and not gain size but you'll be better off going as deep as you can

Agreed. The interesting thing is that I think powerlifters can learn something from this debate. Better leg development has got to help the power squat also. Improving weak points etc. Under the Westside method you do not train the quads directly. Could be a an interesting discussion.

Definitley agree Doc,

I think as powerlifters we can think that because we squat deadlift and bench heavy that we pretty much cover the whole body but in fact there are ares which are not focussed on which are important for attaining bigger lifts.

I am in my "off season" atm but focussing on some areas that dont get a lot of attention eg quads as well as othe rlittle things that need attention

Do you guys wear your squat suits in the off season when you train?

[BarBrother]

No. we dont really get into any gear until bout 8-10 weeks out from a comp

[Dr Squat]

No. we dont really get into any gear until bout 8-10 weeks out from a comp

Interesting. I wonder about the merits of this now with the equipment seeming to be so much harder to master. I'm not saying you're wrong. Of course there are pros and cons both ways. Maybe another thread topic.

Any idea what the Russians etc do gear wise? I mean equipment, not the other gear lol.

[BarBrother]

I know what u mean. The suits etc we use is pretty tame, never had problems with grooving my squat suit or dead suit, mite be spending more time in a bench shirt this time to master it a bit. None of us are using Katanas/SuperKatanas so dont have any problems with rerspect to those.

Aussie Chris Caltabiano ( Benched 270kg @ Under 110kg Junior) is in his Super KAt every week aparently. Not sure bout russinas/ukrainians. I would assume they would spend more time in gear than most

[Dr Squat]

I know what u mean. The suits etc we use is pretty tame, never had problems with grooving my squat suit or dead suit, mite be spending more time in a bench shirt this time to master it a bit. None of us are using Katanas/SuperKatanas so dont have any problems with rerspect to those.

Aussie Chris Caltabiano ( Benched 270kg @ Under 110kg Junior) is in his Super KAt every week aparently. Not sure bout russinas/ukrainians. I would assume they would spend more time in gear than most

Would be worth having a chat to Steve Prichard. He seems to know what they are up to.

Way off thread but do you think the tighter the better for squat suit?

The downside in training in equipment is that it adds heaps of time to training sessions. But that's probably a small cost.

[BarBrother]

I would say the tighter the better to a point but i think its a very mechanical exercise and asoon as it gets too tight it can mess with mechanics and u end up either not geting depth or being pulled forward and doing a 250kg good morning

[Tonka]

Russians and Ukraines train in equipment alot earlier and more frequently than what many think and you'd be surprised how early the suits and shirts come on in their workout sessions as well - sometimes making 2 or 3 shirt/suit changes in the same session depending on weight percentages. They are technically excellent in their equipment because of this practice.

[funkyfly]

You are correct there funky but I bet you're only new to this sport. Branch used to squat A2C and eventually he settled for the shorter ROM. Not tryna school ya, just putting the facts out there.

Just like Dorian moved to machines as him preferred mode of mass building for legs, yet he started off with squatting

Yes im aware of that, and im also aware of the reasons why they stopped A2G squats - They werent the best option for them due to injury, body type or lack of mass building.

The fact they stopped A2G squats, and the fact other leg monsters (Tom Platz) recommend parallel or just below is good enough for me. I take the advice of these professionals seriously and i plan on pushing weights for a long time so dont want any injuries.

Point/Facts being - Im a big believer in squats and had never said otherwise, however A2G squats arent always the best option, Parallel can be much better in some cases.

[PeterDolan]

Did you see how far Platz's knees came forward though? Yes his femur was about parallel to the ground but he was as low as he could go.

I like Branch, and what he does works for him but he is the poster boy for how not to train

[Dr Squat]

I like Branch, and what he does works for him but he is the poster boy for how not to train

Really? :? His training is brutal and he generally uses full range of motion.

[tomsammce]

when u take as much gear as branch and have as good genetcs im pretty sure u can train any way and get big lol

[funkyfly]

I like Branch, and what he does works for him but he is the poster boy for how not to train

Really? :? His training is brutal and he generally uses full range of motion.

not what i have seen of his training. his videos show a lot of what looks like 1/2 reps, and he often bounces.

But i think his squats show good form.

[PeterDolan]

I like Branch, and what he does works for him but he is the poster boy for how not to train

Really? :? His training is brutal and he generally uses full range of motion.

We could list his injuries and list Toney Freeman's injuries and then compare training styles

Indeed his ROM in generally full but it can get loose as hell

[Dr Squat]

I like Branch, and what he does works for him but he is the poster boy for how not to train

Really? :? His training is brutal and he generally uses full range of motion.

We could list his injuries and list Toney Freeman's injuries and then compare training styles

Indeed his ROM in generally full but it can get loose as hell

Toney who? lol. Where did he get at the Olympia? BW's physique is a product of his brutal training style.