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cardio during keto

maccaz

By maccaz
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mjm89 Junior member

mjm89

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In saying all of this HIIT with prolonged ketosis is very much a grey area for me. If you were including weekly carb ups (are either of you? aka Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) then HIIT would be fine the day of or after the carb up because you'd be using the replenished glycogen stores, but once in deep ketosis it's not so clear to me. BCAAs would be great for a little insurance to help prevent muscle loss, but I can't be sure it would totally prevent it.

:

Just the SKD at the mo. May look into CKD and introduce a carb up every second weekend. Having some experience on straight keto gives me an indication of what to expect and how to deal with it so for now will just stick with what I know...

I just find that I'm constantly tired, I don't know why though, could be a not enough calorie thing.

I have a blog online (http://tygrrh.blogspot.com/), I did some calcs on there re what my intakes should be. We had a hell as week with $$ and food :roll: so we're going shopping this weekend and I'll do my plan for the week and caloric cals with them.

I'm stoked with my results so far so I don't want to be slack about it!

Bloody impressive! that's good results for 5 days :clap:

On the subject of you feeling tired. It will eventually pass. The first week was the hardest for me in terms of getting up to workout :( I wasn't drinking my protein shake, would be in pain before bed, and because my calorie intake was minus 800 calories obviously I was buggered! Thought it was a good thing in the sense I was making my body work! True to some extent just hard to distinguish when I was pushing myself too hard that I wasn't allowing my body to recover properly before following training. This is why I think Phedder had a good point where he mentions

A sustainable diet that doesn't drive you crazy or make you want to quit is a successful one, don't let cardio turn it into something unsustainable :naughty:

There were times when my energy levels were so depleted that I was tempted to snack on a biscuit. Although early days if you're constantly tired, working out must be a challenge, no? Not sure of a quick fix for me I just had to truck on, I did feel protein shakes helped a little :D

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mjm89 Junior member

mjm89

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I just find that I'm constantly tired, I don't know why though, could be a not enough calorie thing.

I have a blog online (http://tygrrh.blogspot.com/), I did some calcs on there re what my intakes should be. We had a hell as week with $$ and food :roll: so we're going shopping this weekend and I'll do my plan for the week and caloric cals with them.

I'm stoked with my results so far so I don't want to be slack about it!

Hey again just looking at your caloric plan on ya blog good stuff! Just a tad confused with the carbohydrate intake been 492.2g? That's really high! could you explain this to me please? might be reading it wrong :shifty:

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Phedder Veteran member

Phedder

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Hey Phed, what in your opinion is better a CKD or a straight KD?

I'd venture to say a CKD but could be wrong :shifty:

From a physiological perspective I think they may even out, again could be wrong. With those carb ups your replenishing the glycogen stores, which can then be used during weight training or HIIT sessions the day of and/or after to help keep the intensity up, which potentially means you could get more benefit out of these sessions and help you retain more muscle, but ketosis itself helps is muscle sparring so this aspect may be redundant. Also the carb ups would help increase the levels of leptin in the body which when circulating levels are high this can help increase fat burning, but on the other hand ketosis itself increases fat burning so this aspect may also be redundant, and possibly irrelevant to some who have become leptin resistant/insenstive.

The main benefit I see of CKD is the psychological aspect of it, those carb ups can be seen as a break from the diet, and you can indulge the cravings that have been pestering you through the week. I think for that reason it'd be easier to stick to than having to be so strict to constantly stay in ketosis, and as mentioned earlier I'm a big fan of actually being able to stick to a diet, because they don't work if you're not actually able to stick to them :lol:

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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I'm stoked with my results so far so I don't want to be slack about it!

Bloody impressive! that's good results for 5 days :clap:

Without wanting to take anything away from Tygrrh's progress, I think much of that weight loss might be water. A lot of water retention is caused by carbs, so when you drop the carbs (as you do in a keto diet) you drop the water as well.

The flip side of that is that when/if you introduce carb-up days, your weight will suddenly increase again for a few days thereafter. It's normal, and it's not fat, so don't panic when it happens. :D

Also, re the HIIT and keto... When HumanPerformance put me on a keto diet last year and prescribed 100m sprints as cardio, it was fine for a week or two. But soon I couldn't sprint if my life depended on it. The mind was willing, but the body just would not move fast enough. Bear in mind this was not only keto, but also very low calories, too - so that probably exaggerated things even more. Regardless, my "sprints" ended up being the speed of a light jog. It looked totally pathetic! :pfft:

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Optimass Veteran member

Optimass

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HIIT is ok on keto - but cardio at low intensity is more sustainable for longer periods which is why I prefer it. In saying that sprints and 2 minute stair climb drills are great because your legs store a significant amount of glyogen and hittin ketosis after a carb load is much quicker as a result (ime).

5 days into a deload and you are hardly in ketosis > it takes that average person 8 - 10 days. The weight drop you experience over this period is mostly water - so yes you will look to have lost fat.

The most important part of the first phase is ensuring you're hydrated. This will stop random fluctuation of body weight due to hormonal changes through monthly cycle and/or fluctuations in your sodium intake.

I only use one cheat meal when on keto with clients as a reward meal. It's plenty. After about 3 weeks you'll find you can achieve a good ketone level within 48 hours after that meal. Having no cheat meal and staying straight keto is another option and would be easier to maintain as you don't go through withdrawl every week - I find however that your strength will drop quicker. (More easily maintained, longer when allow one "anything goes" meal per week - best timed before Legs routine).

..........

Have only glanced through this thread but I'm happy to offer advice to anyone working through keto - send me a PM and I'll try to get to it within a few days. (happily retired :grin: )

As Pseu has already pointed out HumanPerformance (Aylmer Porter) is another good resource also and money well spent if you are looking for the trainer/sports nutritionist combo. Aylmer consults with many top athletes and has run a successful contractor PT business out of Club Physcal Albany for many years - one of the few trainers I would say have achieved mastery.

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Optimass Veteran member

Optimass

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I just find that I'm constantly tired, I don't know why though, could be a not enough calorie thing.

I have a blog online (http://tygrrh.blogspot.com/), I did some calcs on there re what my intakes should be. We had a hell as week with $$ and food :roll: so we're going shopping this weekend and I'll do my plan for the week and caloric cals with them.

I'm stoked with my results so far so I don't want to be slack about it!

Too many carbs in your plan (492g) ..... and don't get hung up on weighing your food. A little extra protein is good, especially if you are training with heavy resistance.

PM me your stats ... BMR calculation / or height/weight/age

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/metric-bmr-calculator.php

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Phedder Veteran member

Phedder

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Glad you stopped by Opti :)

HIIT is ok on keto - but cardio at low intensity is more sustainable for longer periods which is why I prefer it. In saying that sprints and 2 minute stair climb drills are great because your legs store a significant amount of glyogen and hittin ketosis after a carb load is much quicker as a result (ime).

What's your opinion on HIIT once already in deep ketosis when glycogen levels are depleted?

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Optimass Veteran member

Optimass

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Glad you stopped by Opti :)
HIIT is ok on keto - but cardio at low intensity is more sustainable for longer periods which is why I prefer it. In saying that sprints and 2 minute stair climb drills are great because your legs store a significant amount of glyogen and hittin ketosis after a carb load is much quicker as a result (ime).

What's your opinion on HIIT once already in deep ketosis when glycogen levels are depleted?

batman.jpg

Always watching ... in the shadows :pfft:

HIIT ok in short bursts (15 - 20 minutes). Need to be mindful of how much stress you put on the muscle. I have experimented a bit over the years - for my own training I go off gut feel. Most hard-core bbders wouldn't recommend due to the risk of muscle breakdown but in reality, it's not like your muscle fibres are going to melt off your body :lol: - any loss of size I have experienced has always been regained once adding carbs back into a plan.

If it's working for you - keep using it.

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mjm89 Junior member

mjm89

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Phedder! Thanks for all the advice you've been providing on this post :) I've been doing some major research over the weekend and there are a several forums that support your findings. In fact, people actually suggested weight training??? Lol I would've cringed this time last year as I was drawn to think it makes chicks bulky but I realize I was informed by those misinformed :roll:

The Insanity workout I was doing technically isn't "HITT" but it centered around that type of cardiovascular activity.

I stopped doing Insanity (for now) as of today and would like to engage in Weight training (if I knew what the hell I was doing) yt a few fitness chicks and googled some training plans still don't get it...Did find some butt exercises with dumbells by JNL that I might have a crack at today.

I don't have any of those fancy weights Just a dumbell set the bought for me ages ago gathering dust in the garage... gonna go for a nice walk now and get stuck into it after.

Oh I pm Ronin who's looking at my diet plan so hopefully he could point me in the right direction :pray: but if anyone has anymore advice for weight training while on Keto/RFL by all means.. share!

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Tygrrh Member

Tygrrh

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Yeah man fully!

:grin: :grin: Opti's helping with mine! I quite possibly have my sister in law's 21st to attend this year, so wanna look goooooood, not just slim but mucsly good too lol

In the attempt to conserve petrol, I've taken to walking into work so that's my cardio now. It's a 50 min walk from Ngaio to Molesworth Street, but early to bed tonight to actually walk from J'ville.

Mjm, women have 1/10th the testosterone of men, therefore we can't get as big and as bulky as they do unless we are using steroids :) I love my weights workouts :D It feels like I've done something y'know? How heavy are your d/bs? You should be able to get something sussed. The thing with not knowing what you are supposed to be doing is that you may be more prone to injury because you don't know what the correct form is. Where abouts in the country are you?

I'm finding it a bit hard because of the amount I have to eat, I physically never eat that much, that plus with the protein shake pre/post workout, currently it's too expensive for me so am trying to work around that and sub something else in the place of the shake.

I did my carb up over the weekend, gained 1.6kg which I am putting down to water retention and the sodium :D

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mjm89 Junior member

mjm89

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Yeah man fully!

:grin: :grin: Opti's helping with mine! I quite possibly have my sister in law's 21st to attend this year, so wanna look goooooood, not just slim but mucsly good too lol

In the attempt to conserve petrol, I've taken to walking into work so that's my cardio now. It's a 50 min walk from Ngaio to Molesworth Street, but early to bed tonight to actually walk from J'ville.

Mjm, women have 1/10th the testosterone of men, therefore we can't get as big and as bulky as they do unless we are using steroids :) I love my weights workouts :D It feels like I've done something y'know? How heavy are your d/bs? You should be able to get something sussed. The thing with not knowing what you are supposed to be doing is that you may be more prone to injury because you don't know what the correct form is. Where abouts in the country are you?

I'm finding it a bit hard because of the amount I have to eat, I physically never eat that much, that plus with the protein shake pre/post workout, currently it's too expensive for me so am trying to work around that and sub something else in the place of the shake.

I did my carb up over the weekend, gained 1.6kg which I am putting down to water retention and the sodium :D

Hard! When's the 21st? Wish I wasn't such a lazy ass last year to get in shape for mine :doh:

Anyway, Looking forward, My cardio's walking for about an hour too! then weight training. I've looked on JNL's youtube channel for correct form :think: I dunno see how I go... What's your weight training routine like?

Yeah I know what you mean about feeling like you've done something, Don't care if I'm exhausted afterwards better than feeling like a bum! My dumbells are those neoprene soft grip ones in 1, 3 and 5Kg's. At the mo I'm visiting my sister near Christchurch but am based in North Shore, Auckland, Why's that?

I wouldn't say protein shakes are the cheapest but in most respect they are quite effective IMO. You could get your protein from chicken, meats, fish, nuts etc...Protein shakes for me is just that more convenient and fills me up faster :pfft:

Can't wait for my free meal (this sunday :dancing: ) so bloody excited and overwhelmed with all the sudden choices it's hard to plan what I should have. I want to plan it so that I don't go overboard on my carb and fat

intake. What did you have?

Oh and I lost the remaining .9kgs \:D/ well 1.1kgs to be exact for last week, extra motivation for me to keep going :nod:

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Tygrrh Member

Tygrrh

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Hard! When's the 21st? Wish I wasn't such a lazy ass last year to get in shape for mine :doh:

Anyway, Looking forward, My cardio's walking for about an hour too! then weight training. I've looked on JNL's youtube channel for correct form :think: I dunno see how I go... What's your weight training routine like?

Yeah I know what you mean about feeling like you've done something, Don't care if I'm exhausted afterwards better than feeling like a bum! My dumbells are those neoprene soft grip ones in 1, 3 and 5Kg's. At the mo I'm visiting my sister near Christchurch but am based in North Shore, Auckland, Why's that?

I wouldn't say protein shakes are the cheapest but in most respect they are quite effective IMO. You could get your protein from chicken, meats, fish, nuts etc...Protein shakes for me is just that more convenient and fills me up faster :pfft:

Can't wait for my free meal (this sunday :dancing: ) so bloody excited and overwhelmed with all the sudden choices it's hard to plan what I should have. I want to plan it so that I don't go overboard on my carb and fat

intake. What did you have?

Oh and I lost the remaining .9kgs \:D/ well 1.1kgs to be exact for last week, extra motivation for me to keep going :nod:

21st is in October in Oz (only if mum in-law gets the tickets :D) so if I lost enough then I could may be pull out some togs! Dude, everytime I look at my wedding pics, its cringe worthy, so I never printed them out lmao. That was 3 years ago!

If you're any where near Albany, Massey Uni has pretty good rates http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/student- ... p_home.cfm

Well, my mum sold some of my home made soaps so I'll put that $$ towards a shake. Yeah same here, which is why I really want to get some.

Lol I didn't plan, I had a voucher for Dominos Pizza :lol: and we had a family dinner with my sister so that was chicken & mashed potatoes with an ice cream scoop on a peanut brownie biscuit with vanilla custard and stewed apple (my bro in-law is a chef :grin: ) so it was SO good! Don't think too much about it tho, make it a really good meal but don't waste it on chippies and chocolate. That is what I didn't do. I was fully surprised. I thought I would go out and get chips & chocolate but I didn't :D YAY me!

Water suffered a wee bit because I don't drink much water when I feel cold and I'm freezing (over the weekend too). so it's a struggle but I'm trying to do what Opti said and that was drinking 2 c. water with every meal! Man it's hard work!

So stoke for you. Keep up the good work. Like I quote "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten!"

:D we've totally taken Maccaz thread over :lol::lol:

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mjm89 Junior member

mjm89

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Hard! When's the 21st? Wish I wasn't such a lazy ass last year to get in shape for mine :doh:

Anyway, Looking forward, My cardio's walking for about an hour too! then weight training. I've looked on JNL's youtube channel for correct form :think: I dunno see how I go... What's your weight training routine like?

Yeah I know what you mean about feeling like you've done something, Don't care if I'm exhausted afterwards better than feeling like a bum! My dumbells are those neoprene soft grip ones in 1, 3 and 5Kg's. At the mo I'm visiting my sister near Christchurch but am based in North Shore, Auckland, Why's that?

I wouldn't say protein shakes are the cheapest but in most respect they are quite effective IMO. You could get your protein from chicken, meats, fish, nuts etc...Protein shakes for me is just that more convenient and fills me up faster :pfft:

Can't wait for my free meal (this sunday :dancing: ) so bloody excited and overwhelmed with all the sudden choices it's hard to plan what I should have. I want to plan it so that I don't go overboard on my carb and fat

intake. What did you have?

Oh and I lost the remaining .9kgs \:D/ well 1.1kgs to be exact for last week, extra motivation for me to keep going :nod:

21st is in October in Oz (only if mum in-law gets the tickets :D) so if I lost enough then I could may be pull out some togs! Dude, everytime I look at my wedding pics, its cringe worthy, so I never printed them out lmao. That was 3 years ago!

If you're any where near Albany, Massey Uni has pretty good rates http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/student- ... p_home.cfm

Well, my mum sold some of my home made soaps so I'll put that $$ towards a shake. Yeah same here, which is why I really want to get some.

Lol I didn't plan, I had a voucher for Dominos Pizza :lol: and we had a family dinner with my sister so that was chicken & mashed potatoes with an ice cream scoop on a peanut brownie biscuit with vanilla custard and stewed apple (my bro in-law is a chef :grin: ) so it was SO good! Don't think too much about it tho, make it a really good meal but don't waste it on chippies and chocolate. That is what I didn't do. I was fully surprised. I thought I would go out and get chips & chocolate but I didn't :D YAY me!

Water suffered a wee bit because I don't drink much water when I feel cold and I'm freezing (over the weekend too). so it's a struggle but I'm trying to do what Opti said and that was drinking 2 c. water with every meal! Man it's hard work!

So stoke for you. Keep up the good work. Like I quote "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always gotten!"

:D we've totally taken Maccaz thread over :lol::lol:

Snap! That's the only reason I'm living there! Lol good cos I'm an internal student its cheap and I just live like 5 mins walk from massey :pfft: Thanks had it in the back of my mind to look up Massey gym just always put it off!

Regarding the 21st you have some time left, just take it easy though eh at the pace you're going from what I understand is working well for you, no?

Oh cool w the soaps! I've only tried one brand called EATME in Cheeky Chocolate and Sexy Strawberry.. Yummy w Milk *ahem* (I know thats cussing in keto) but ok with water oh and they're reasonably cheap too! Hit them up with an e-mail they might send you samples!

http://eatme.net.nz/protein-powder/100-isolate.html

Pizza =P~ Oreos and vanilla icecream is my indulgence for my carb up followed by um...better shutup its too intense waiting this long :boohoo: but kudos to you for not going crazy keeping within you're limits without thinking too much into it!

Thanks, Gonna go hard this week in prep for my carb up and then some HITT next week :nod:

Hehe I'm sure Maccaz won't mind, I'll be sure to reference him :wink:

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Phedder Veteran member

Phedder

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If you're not quite sure what to do weight training wise the best thing you could do is go see this guy. He's a PT at albany club physical, goes by HumanPerformance on this site so you could PM him or contact him through that link. I'm sure in one session he'd be able to show you a good range of exercises you could use and could talk a bit about your diet too.

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Optimass Veteran member

Optimass

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Train as heavy as you can with low/moderate reps on keto. Shouldn't be any other consideration given - if you are wanting to maintain size its counter productive to work with lite weights and hi reps. But I guess it comes down to what you want to achieve.

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Tygrrh Member

Tygrrh

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Opti, so instead of 12 reps at 5kg for dumb bell press, I would do lower reps (say...?) at 8kg? (currently I can barely lift 8kg for dumb bell press but still - hypothetically)

Getting amped up for my 1.5 hour walk into town...uhhhhhh! coffee will fix it, coffee fixes everything!

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