cardio during keto

[maccaz]

Any reason why I shouldnt be doing 1 - 1.5 hours intense cardio (kickbox training), while on keto (currently eating 0 carbs or close to it with a carb up meal every second weekend) diet? I train 1 to 1 and a half hours mon-fri.

Am on keto to cut to my goal of around 90 (currently at 111, started at 121) and am currently not weight training but am going to get back into it with a 5 day split or something. need to see a pt get a new good routine.

Is the intensive cardio going to have any negative effects while on keto, as i understand it with no carbs to burn, it will be mostly fat (maybe a little muscle) being burned during cardio. I only notice a little less energy during training than I did while eating carbs, and have fixed this with black coffees.

[mjm89]

Any reason why I shouldnt be doing 1 - 1.5 hours intense cardio (kickbox training), while on keto (currently eating 0 carbs or close to it with a carb up meal every second weekend) diet? I train 1 to 1 and a half hours mon-fri.

Am on keto to cut to my goal of around 90 (currently at 111, started at 121) and am currently not weight training but am going to get back into it with a 5 day split or something. need to see a pt get a new good routine.

Is the intensive cardio going to have any negative effects while on keto, as i understand it with no carbs to burn, it will be mostly fat (maybe a little muscle) being burned during cardio. I only notice a little less energy during training than I did while eating carbs, and have fixed this with black coffees.

Could you post your keto diet please? I've been contemplating on taking it up but as there are so many variations I'm a tad confused on how to start!

Also how many times do you do cardio a week? 1-1.5 hrs each session is hella intense!!! IMO :shock:

[maccaz]

hey mate ^^ glad to help its pretty straight forward (for me anyway)

i train mon-fri and sometimes sunday.

Havent been following a specific plan but I went with the logic of adding up how much protein I need, working out how many calories that is, then making up the rest of my daily calories from fat (going for around 1900 or so, figure my maintenance is 2400 or so). havent been counting calories tooo carefully but more or less close enough, if i plateau too much will start weighing cooked meats etc.

eating mainly meat, some veges, no carbs whatsoever during the week just one odd carb meal every second weekend. supplimenting with multi vits, might look at getting a protein shake or something as i usually cant stomach food straight after training.

Im no way an expert on this just going off advice and the little reading i've done, and it has definately been effective. The only downside iv found with this diet is near the end of cardio i feel completely f***ed, but just gotta push thru it eh

[mjm89]

hey mate ^^ glad to help its pretty straight forward (for me anyway)

i train mon-fri and sometimes sunday.

Havent been following a specific plan but I went with the logic of adding up how much protein I need, working out how many calories that is, then making up the rest of my daily calories from fat (going for around 1900 or so, figure my maintenance is 2400 or so). havent been counting calories tooo carefully but more or less close enough, if i plateau too much will start weighing cooked meats etc.

eating mainly meat, some veges, no carbs whatsoever during the week just one odd carb meal every second weekend. supplimenting with multi vits, might look at getting a protein shake or something as i usually cant stomach food straight after training.

Im no way an expert on this just going off advice and the little reading i've done, and it has definately been effective. The only downside iv found with this diet is near the end of cardio i feel completely f***ed, but just gotta push thru it eh

Cheers Maccaz for the insight and congratz on your progress so far :clap:

I don't eat red meat is that going to be a problem for me? I eat tuna though would that be a sufficuent substitute?

So I guess bread is out of the question? can I eat cheese? apologies for all the questions but just like you I need to shed ALOT of unwanted bodyweight :oops:

At the moment I'm just trying to cut down portion sizes and buy healthier food which includes cutting out the sweets! :cry: 5 days today!

Where I live there's this thing we call the "TRIG" which is basically alot of mountains where it goes steep, flat, steep, flat, etc probably will take me around 3 hours to complete nice scenery and good hike just need to do more training in addition to my half hour runs twice a week and my zumba and toning classes...

[maccaz]

I just went off the food lists on keto.org - so you should be fine with all fish, etc, and vegetables just dont go overboard with the veges.

Safe Foods (No Carbs/Trace Carbs)

Beef, Steak, Hamburger, Prime Rib, Filet Mignon, Roast Beef, Chicken*, Duck, Any Fish*, Tuna*, Salmon*, Trout*, Halibut*, Lamb, Pork, Bacon, Ham, Eggs, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Butter, Oils (Olive Oil*, Flaxseed oil*, etc.), Mustard, Salt, Pepper, Soy Sauce, Tea, Coffee, Heavy Cream and Nutrasweet/Equal.

Minimal Carb Foods (Limited Quantities Only, Check Carb Content!)

Broccoli*, Spinach*, Lettuce*, Cabbage*, Bok Choy*, Kale*, Asparagus*, Mustard Greens*, Mushrooms*, Cucumbers*, Pickles*, Olives*, Celery*, Green Beans*, Brussel Sprouts*, Cauliflower*, Artichokes*, Peppers* (Red, Green, Jalapeno, Habanero), Onions*, Nuts, Flaxseeds*, Cheeses, Salami, Pastrami, Hot Dogs, Sausages, Ribs (watch out for the sauce!), Buffalo Wings, Liverwurst, Oysters, Abalone, Protein Powders, Sugar Free Jello, Salad Dressings (some), some Wines.

[mjm89]

I just went off the food lists on keto.org - so you should be fine with all fish, etc, and vegetables just dont go overboard with the veges.

Safe Foods (No Carbs/Trace Carbs)

Beef, Steak, Hamburger, Prime Rib, Filet Mignon, Roast Beef, Chicken*, Duck, Any Fish*, Tuna*, Salmon*, Trout*, Halibut*, Lamb, Pork, Bacon, Ham, Eggs, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Butter, Oils (Olive Oil*, Flaxseed oil*, etc.), Mustard, Salt, Pepper, Soy Sauce, Tea, Coffee, Heavy Cream and Nutrasweet/Equal.

Minimal Carb Foods (Limited Quantities Only, Check Carb Content!)

Broccoli*, Spinach*, Lettuce*, Cabbage*, Bok Choy*, Kale*, Asparagus*, Mustard Greens*, Mushrooms*, Cucumbers*, Pickles*, Olives*, Celery*, Green Beans*, Brussel Sprouts*, Cauliflower*, Artichokes*, Peppers* (Red, Green, Jalapeno, Habanero), Onions*, Nuts, Flaxseeds*, Cheeses, Salami, Pastrami, Hot Dogs, Sausages, Ribs (watch out for the sauce!), Buffalo Wings, Liverwurst, Oysters, Abalone, Protein Powders, Sugar Free Jello, Salad Dressings (some), some Wines.

Wow!... Am going to start tomorrow :nod:

I did some research on the net too, from one article I understand you need to starve for between 24-36 hours for your body to produce ketones? then, test your urine with ketostix to determine if ketones are present in the body?? from there, this determines whether or not the body is in ketosis mode?

I think the hardest thing for me is giving up milk that I use for my oats in the morning and protein shakes :-s

Having steak and eggs for breakfast is a bit much for me to stomach.. maybe poached eggs to start off with?? topped off with a tuna salad for lunch, chicken breast for dinner with almonds and a piece of fruit for snacks..

I also take supplements such as flaxseed oil, fish oil, multivitamins, vitamin c and puraz

Will give this ago for 30 days if I'm satisfied with the results I'll continue!

Thanks again for the info Maccaz

[maccaz]

allgood, you might want to get some input from someone a bit more knowledgeable on the subject, rather than going solely off my trial and error which might not necessarily work for you, thats the basics though

[pianoscapes]

MJM89- How did Keto go for you? I wanted to add some information that I didn't see in this thread. To run a successful Keto you really need to pay attention to your ratios of protein versus fat. It's more than just cutting out carbs. You will want to shoot for 60-65% of your calories from fat, 30-35% from protein, and less than 5% carb. Of course, it's not just a free-for-all on eating these foods. There is a specific formula designed to calculate your calories. If you are still moving in this direction then post and I'll put it up!

Best!

[vracula]

I just went off the food lists on keto.org - so you should be fine with all fish, etc, and vegetables just dont go overboard with the veges.

Safe Foods (No Carbs/Trace Carbs)

Beef, Steak, Hamburger, Prime Rib, Filet Mignon, Roast Beef, Chicken*, Duck, Any Fish*, Tuna*, Salmon*, Trout*, Halibut*, Lamb, Pork, Bacon, Ham, Eggs, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Butter, Oils (Olive Oil*, Flaxseed oil*, etc.), Mustard, Salt, Pepper, Soy Sauce, Tea, Coffee, Heavy Cream and Nutrasweet/Equal.

Minimal Carb Foods (Limited Quantities Only, Check Carb Content!)

Broccoli*, Spinach*, Lettuce*, Cabbage*, Bok Choy*, Kale*, Asparagus*, Mustard Greens*, Mushrooms*, Cucumbers*, Pickles*, Olives*, Celery*, Green Beans*, Brussel Sprouts*, Cauliflower*, Artichokes*, Peppers* (Red, Green, Jalapeno, Habanero), Onions*, Nuts, Flaxseeds*, Cheeses, Salami, Pastrami, Hot Dogs, Sausages, Ribs (watch out for the sauce!), Buffalo Wings, Liverwurst, Oysters, Abalone, Protein Powders, Sugar Free Jello, Salad Dressings (some), some Wines.

Wow!... Am going to start tomorrow :nod:

I did some research on the net too, from one article I understand you need to starve for between 24-36 hours for your body to produce ketones? then, test your urine with ketostix to determine if ketones are present in the body?? from there, this determines whether or not the body is in ketosis mode?

I think the hardest thing for me is giving up milk that I use for my oats in the morning and protein shakes :-s

Having steak and eggs for breakfast is a bit much for me to stomach.. maybe poached eggs to start off with?? topped off with a tuna salad for lunch, chicken breast for dinner with almonds and a piece of fruit for snacks..

I also take supplements such as flaxseed oil, fish oil, multivitamins, vitamin c and puraz

Will give this ago for 30 days if I'm satisfied with the results I'll continue!

Thanks again for the info Maccaz

you do not need to starve to produce ketones,the lack of carbs do that.

[mjm89]

MJM89- How did Keto go for you? I wanted to add some information that I didn't see in this thread. To run a successful Keto you really need to pay attention to your ratios of protein versus fat. It's more than just cutting out carbs. You will want to shoot for 60-65% of your calories from fat, 30-35% from protein, and less than 5% carb. Of course, it's not just a free-for-all on eating these foods. There is a specific formula designed to calculate your calories. If you are still moving in this direction then post and I'll put it up!

Best!

Hey hey, Sorry for the late reply! Any other info would be great thanks!

This is a long post! Another user msg'd me about my progress but I accidently deleted it sorry! :shifty: this is for you! :wink:

Hmmm...ok. Week 1 was really good! Well in terms of weight loss. I started a journal (diet, exercise, weight loss/gain) and lost 4.8 kg's yeah I realize a proportional amount was water but regardless, I LOST WEIGHT!!! The most I have ever lost compared to the .4, .6, .3's I might of lost doing one of those standard diets. May work for most. I'm not one of them.

In all fairness I'm abit of a chub. According to Lyle McDonald's "Ketogenic diet for the patient and the practitioner" an in-depth 300+ pg PDF; it's not unusual for people who are overweight or obese to experience a dramatic decrease in bodyweight within 1-2 weeks of starting Keto..Yah yah the books a little out of date but nevertheless it still provides a fundamental foundation for those considering the diet.

Week 2: My diet consisted of omlettes, chicken, tuna and peanut butter. Kinda started getting bored and missing my sweets...My hunger pains for chocolate were hella bad! Afraid I might fall off the wagon, I did some research on the net, found a few low carb desserts that I played around with, made a cheesecake was ok but took too long to prepare and wait for to eat haha! but then hello Atkins Bars! Found them at New World and Countdown for around $2.97 each expensive I know but it seemed to keep my weight under control and I continued to drop the weight at a steady pace.. Weight loss: 2.9kgs

Week 3: I think this was around the time of pre xmas parties.. been in management I had to attend. Instead of allowing myself some sort of window where I could binge on whatever and start again the next day; flicking through my journal I could see how well I was doing. Motivation in check, I decided to plan my food and beverages. Since the event was catered I asked the bosses P.A to see if a few low-carb favors could be added to the menu. They did a pretty good job; crustless quiches, salad chicken wrap thingys and splenda choco butterfllies... they even managed to find me low carb wine! (Rosemount Zero if anyones interested) I would say that was the most challenging time of the diet for me, I'm more of a spontaneous gal but in situations like the one above plans do help. Weight loss: 3.2kgs

Week 4: Surprisingly this week wasn't to bad even with xmas day. Celebrated with the folks and since they were ditching me the next day for New Caledonia we didn't go all out like we usually do.. similar to a simple Sunday roast; chicken, beef and a few salads weight loss 2.4kgs

I lost a total of 13.3 kg's in 29 days :nod: I was pretty proud of myself so of course I wanted to keep going!

BUT.....I'm human and of course with new years in tow I went out with the gf's :doh: yes I ate and drank everything unacceptable on Keto and f**k the weight crept back on within days.. To be specific I re-gained 6.8 kgz in something like 11 days :x

I was so pissed at myself that on the 10th of Jan I started back on Keto. Was pathetic at my second attempt though; having bread and sneaking biscuits. Couldn't really be bothered this time round.. In regards to exercise my sister brought the insanity cardio program and I started doing that with her. Pretty intense, dripping with sweat and most important. I was losing weight.

To date, of the 6.8 kgs I regained, I have now lost 5.9 kgs of it.. .9 left

This is from personal experience I primarily followed the advice from Lyle McDonalds Ketogenic e-book that I purchased from bodyrecomposition.com An invaluble resource. Think it cost around 30 something if you purchase 2 or more books... have a look!

Also I engaged in keto forums, found heaps of great info and pinched a fellow keto dieters meal plan then adjusted it to my carb, protein, fat intake from there....

Pro's

-Rapid Weight Loss

-Don't feel weighed down- Can do 150 starjumps compared to the usual 20

-Diet reasonably easy to stick to-in terms of what you're allowed to eat

Cons's

-Tierd-Lack of energy

-Diet gets boring- must Google recipes!

Omg so tierd... HTH!

[Tygrrh]

So do you think you'll go back to keto? I'm into my 4th day now and the cravings have definitely lessened. No sugar withdrawal headache today lol. A good mate has invited me to her 30th drinks at a restaurant and I told her I'd come but not eat or drink anything lol. I figure my presence is more than enough :wink:

I think I really got tired with the eggs for breakfast, so today (as I've run out of eggs) I had Chicken Adobo with lettuce for breakkie. I have a lovely burn in my mouth.

GL with your weight loss

[mjm89]

So do you think you'll go back to keto? I'm into my 4th day now and the cravings have definitely lessened. No sugar withdrawal headache today lol. A good mate has invited me to her 30th drinks at a restaurant and I told her I'd come but not eat or drink anything lol. I figure my presence is more than enough :wink:

I think I really got tired with the eggs for breakfast, so today (as I've run out of eggs) I had Chicken Adobo with lettuce for breakkie. I have a lovely burn in my mouth.

GL with your weight loss

I'm doing keto (properly) now. we're probably at the same stage, I started on Monday too...so far so good! The first week's okay, for me it was week 2 when I started wanting sweets again...

Good on you for remaining disciplined! special occasions are really the testing point for keto if not for all diets! My co-workers just knew me to eat and drink whatever but having some things I could have prevented questions been thrown at me as to why I wasn't eating this, drinking that you know?

My ex used to make this dish, never thought to ask him how to make it nor did I know it was low carb does it contain alot of fat though?? Would be awesome if you could post the recipe

How's it been for you so far?

[Tygrrh]

It's been going good. I had a hell as sugar craving and I had to battle it out eh. I drank heaps of water. I'll post it in the recipes section. To be honest I can't be arsed explaining that I'm on a keto diet because it creates too much drama for the uninformed. I just tell them I'm cutting sugar out of my diet coz I have a hell as addiction, which is true

I've been doing HIIT cardio (at the recommendation of herc) and I'm finding it fantastic. Today I dropped another 0.5g, it could be water, but I really want to get to under 80 by the wedding. Could be a stretch but lets see

I was finding it quite difficult to come up with meal ideas but if you really look, they are definitely out there. I was going to make some mince this evening but my shit head cat ate it...I'm so :evil: at her right now...so she's getting a flea bath :twisted:

Keep me in the loop eh? we can cheer each other on :pfft:

[mjm89]

It's been going good. I had a hell as sugar craving and I had to battle it out eh. I drank heaps of water. I'll post it in the recipes section. To be honest I can't be arsed explaining that I'm on a keto diet because it creates too much drama for the uninformed. I just tell them I'm cutting sugar out of my diet coz I have a hell as addiction, which is true

I've been doing HIIT cardio (at the recommendation of herc) and I'm finding it fantastic. Today I dropped another 0.5g, it could be water, but I really want to get to under 80 by the wedding. Could be a stretch but lets see

I was finding it quite difficult to come up with meal ideas but if you really look, they are definitely out there. I was going to make some mince this evening but my shit head cat ate it...I'm so :evil: at her right now...so she's getting a flea bath :twisted:

Keep me in the loop eh? we can cheer each other on :pfft:

LOL @ the cat! dahaha! I followed the post about cardio and ya arms, Herc always gives out good advice! For something so simple I really believe water is great for rejuvenating the body and helping with fat loss; I have 4ltrs p/day and two glasses before bed with my supps.

HIIT is the shit! especially on keto, think Maccaz done it while on his keto journey not sure if he's still on it though? Ever heard of Insanity???, Intense but you sweat as if you just got out of the pool :nod: although not for everyone, it pays off!

Thanks for the recipe, Definitely keep you up to date with my progress. Question; whats your carb in-take p/day? Mines 10-15gms just wanna compare

[Tygrrh]

TBH, my carb intake is seriously low. I haven't actually measured it. Like I have a little bit of cream (probably 2 tbsp) in my plunger coffee and the ingredients I cook with don't come out of a can, so it's harder to measure. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say under 10g a day. Have a look at http://www.hannenhealth.com/keto.htm. I'm going off that.

Granted, yesterday I had a cappucino that had a sprinkling of cocoa on it but that was it.

[Tygrrh]

I haven't heard of Insanity. Where can I find/read up on it?

[Phedder]

Just want to throw this out there;

It may be best to let off on the HIIT stuff a bit while in ketosis. Because it is done at such a high intensity, HIIT relies on glyocgen for fuel during the workout. In ketosis, your glycogen levels will be mostly depleted, so to be able to fuel the HIIT sessions your body could potentially be turning to protein (your muscles!) to fuel these sessions, as fat cannot be metabolised fast enough to keep up with the demand that HIIT places. You're still losing weight yes, but potentially the wrong kind. You want to try and maintain as much muscle as you can so once you've dropped the fat you'll look better. If you're losing substantial muscle and fat, you may just end up looking like a smaller version of yourself, which is fine if that's what you want, but aren't we all trying to improve our bodies? Don't get too caught up in the weight on the scale; The mirror, measurements, and how clothes fit are far more important.

[Tygrrh]

Phedder I can always rely on you for some sound advice :grin:

Thanks bud

[maccaz]

yep gonna go off bf % (getting measured first time on monday) rather than weight. as far as i can tell i have lost around 16kg in the last 3 months and my strength is the same so i dont think i have lost too much muscle. got another 30kg to lose then will start a bulk (clean as i can)

laying off the kickbox for a while cos work is getting in the way. phedder would you say low intensity cardio would be better during full time keto (as opposed to the near hiit that i get with kickboxing)?

[Phedder]

Phedder I can always rely on you for some sound advice :grin:

Thanks bud

Happy to help when I can Great stuff on stretching earlier too! :nod:

[mjm89]

TBH, my carb intake is seriously low. I haven't actually measured it. Like I have a little bit of cream (probably 2 tbsp) in my plunger coffee and the ingredients I cook with don't come out of a can, so it's harder to measure. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say under 10g a day. Have a look at http://www.hannenhealth.com/keto.htm. I'm going off that.

Granted, yesterday I had a cappucino that had a sprinkling of cocoa on it but that was it.

Wow! you seem really on to it! I wasn't that strict but will be reviewing my diet tomorrow

I haven't heard of Insanity. Where can I find/read up on it?

Here's the link:

http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitnes ... nsanity.do

Just want to throw this out there;

It may be best to let off on the HIIT stuff a bit while in ketosis. Because it is done at such a high intensity, HIIT relies on glyocgen for fuel during the workout. In ketosis, your glycogen levels will be mostly depleted, so to be able to fuel the HIIT sessions your body could potentially be turning to protein (your muscles!) to fuel these sessions, as fat cannot be metabolised fast enough to keep up with the demand that HIIT places. You're still losing weight yes, but potentially the wrong kind. You want to try and maintain as much muscle as you can so once you've dropped the fat you'll look better. If you're losing substantial muscle and fat, you may just end up looking like a smaller version of yourself, which is fine if that's what you want, but aren't we all trying to improve our bodies? Don't get too caught up in the weight on the scale; The mirror, measurements, and how clothes fit are far more important.

Interesting! I was hoping someone would jump in on the Keto/HITT combination.

Just some questions if you don't mind answering:

I read on bodybuilding.com (Link below) where the same issue is discussed frequently. Some users suggest BCAA's and L-Carnitine? BCAA as an alternative to glucose/carbs especially when muscle glycogen is reduced and L-Carnitine to boost energy and increase the turnover of fat into liquid energy therefore fueling your body while engaging in HITT...Is this right or is there more to it?

I take L-Carnitine with my protein shake an hour before my workout and I'm burning rubber!...still on the fence about BCAA'S researching to see if I can find one that wont bump me out of ketosis

Not sure of my bf% but I did drop 2 jean sizes since December. My ultimate goal is to lose fat without losing too much muscle mass so any advice would be appreciated

Thanks Phedder, gives me something to think about :nod:

Link:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea ... =107118401

[Phedder]

I can't really comment much on the L-carnitine as I honestly don't know much about it, the theory seems okay but I'm not expert and haven't read any peer-reviewed studies showing it's effectiveness either (more than happy to if someone has any links?) But if you feel it helps you then that's great :nod: However the BCAAs to me seem like a great idea, a good way to provide the body with fast digesting proteins that could be used for gluconeogenesis without forcing the body to leech protein from the muscles. I don't think they'd affect ketosis at all as the glucose being produced from them are being used up very quickly to fuel your workout, and not actually being stored as glycogen.

In saying all of this HIIT with prolonged ketosis is very much a grey area for me. If you were including weekly carb ups (are either of you? aka Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) then HIIT would be fine the day of or after the carb up because you'd be using the replenished glycogen stores, but once in deep ketosis it's not so clear to me. BCAAs would be great for a little insurance to help prevent muscle loss, but I can't be sure it would totally prevent it.

You mentioned Lyle Macdonald earlier, who is an absolute wealth of knowledge regarding ketosis as I'm sure you know. Perhaps if you read through some FAQs or could email him you'd be able to get a definitive answer? All of what I've said is what I make sense of with the reading on the subjects I've done, so take it with a grain of salt as I lack any hard experience with watching ketosis transform thousands of clients as Lyle has.

A moderator on this site, Optimass, has a fair bit of experience with putting people through keto diets as well if I'm not mistaken. Could try sending him a PM and get his input also?

At the end of the day though progress is progress and you're both doing fantastically. You've got the main principles nailed down and they're working great, chances are even if the HIIT is burning some muscle, it'll be small amounts compared to the fat that's also being lost so body composition will (as you're noticing) change favourably. Minor details that have been discussed probably correspond to minor differences, hopefully someone else more informed/experience can chime in with just how much of a difference it may make :pray:

I will just add that I feel cardio should be the last concern whilst in ketosis. Some can find themselves lacking energy on ketogenic diets, if you're struggling to get through your weight training sessions (training priority number 1) then trying to force yourself through cardio as well is just likely to cause both physical and mental burn out. Ketosis itself has great fat burning effects, weight training whilst in ketosis should serve primarily to help preserve muscle and strength. Cardio can be used to further increase the calorie deficit, helping to create a greater weight loss, but shouldn't be done at the expensive of being sluggish for, or skipping entirely, the weight training sessions. If the energy/motivation is there, do it. If not, stick to your diet and weights program, be patient and let them do their magic, no need to over work yourself for the sake of perhaps an extra .5-1kg a week that will leave you feeling terrible. A sustainable diet that doesn't drive you crazy or make you want to quit it is a successful one, don't let cardio turn it into something unsustainable :naughty:

[Tygrrh]

Hey Phed, what in your opinion is better a CKD or a straight KD?

That actually makes a lot of sense as well. I actually D/Led the books :oops: . There is no way I can afford them lol.

Happy to help when I can Great stuff on stretching earlier too! :nod:

Thanks

[maccaz]

not me, full time keto, havent found a need for carb ups yet but might look at it if i plateau or start struggling for strength.

back into gym on monday with a new pt new 5 day body part split so will start a journal then also, might chuck up my eats and stuff too

[Tygrrh]

I just find that I'm constantly tired, I don't know why though, could be a not enough calorie thing.

I have a blog online (http://tygrrh.blogspot.com/), I did some calcs on there re what my intakes should be. We had a hell as week with $$ and food :roll: so we're going shopping this weekend and I'll do my plan for the week and caloric cals with them.

I'm stoked with my results so far so I don't want to be slack about it!