opinions on this cycle

[Flex]

People say that its bad for you etc etc, but how can they say that when Gear still hasnt been researched thoroughly to see if it is bad????

Ahhh, actually there is plenty of research done of steroids and testosterone replacement, as to release a "drug" onto the market there has to be clinical studies to validate the drug makers claims. There isn't any major danger with steroids when used under controlled conditions and to the limits specified by the drug maker. Unfortunately BB's often far exceed these recommendations. You'd be right in that there probably aren't any clinical studies with dosages 10x (or more) the recommended dosage, nor studies showing what effect stacking several different products together, nor what effect they might have on a normal 19 year old male who has no underlying medical reason to require them. There's no reason for a pharmaceutical company to spend money testing the dosages that BB's use as the drugs work for their intended purposes at much lower dosages.

If people bother to look for it there's plenty of literature out there on safe and effective cycles that have been tried and tested - there's no reason to experiment with stacks or dosages as it's all been done before by someone. Don't think that you're the first person to think of a particular cycle, nor is it wise to omit anything from a recommended cycle for the purpose of saving money.

2guns - Best advice is to stop focusing so much on the quick fix and look at your longterm goals. Spend the next few years (at least) training properly, eating clean and learning. You should make the most of your natural gains while you can. You say you've been eating and training seriously for 2 years - since 17 - so why don't you post up your diet so that we can critique that. I know when I was 19 I thought I ate pretty well, but ate all sorts of rubbish and drank rather regularly so I'm sure there are plenty of improvements that can be made. Also your online training journal lasted all of 4 days which doesn't reflect all that well on your commitment. Get that back on track as well.

[ama]

because i dont wanna go over the top. like u sed b4 maybe u rely just on tht shit to get yr gains. so u have to use heaps.

but i train hard and eat well i just want sumthing tht will give me sum good gains

im sure yr option would give me great gains but itd also f*ck me up alot faster.

wher as if i take small quantities of sus 250 i dnt think itll do much damage.

i know ppl who have done just a sus cycle and they have gotten good 5, 6 kilos

2guns....

Like I have said ( and others ) before - injecting small amounts of test ain't gonna do jack shit. F***n waste of money.

and who said that testorone does damage anyway?

If your gonna or wanna cycle .... do some proper RESEARCH. Don't rely on this forum to educate you. There is too much to be learnt.

For example.... you shud know that shooting up 250mg of any test per week will shut your own test production down but not give you f*ck all test to grow. You will actually be worse... because the male body in it's peak of test production would be producing around 400 - 450 mgs of test per week. So by just injecting small pussy amounts of test like u wanna - u r f***ing urself over.

[ama]

Sorry , didn't mean to be a harsh post.

Its just that the more post about steroids the more obvious it becomes that you haven't done any study.

:wink:

[bulking]

A Sustanon 250 cycle?????..........Whats the point of just doing a sust only cycle?...seems like a waste of good gear on nothing, why dont you save up sum more money and invest in Deca, dbol, stanazol,winstrol and blend it all into one cycle!

Pretty bad advice really.

A test only cycle to begin with is the way to go, not a 4 compound one your suggesting. How the hell is he going to know whats messing him up if he encounters problems??

Keep it simple to start

Btw Stanozolol is Winstrol they arnt seperate compounds. :pfft:

[sponge]

rofls. 2guns just keep reading up on information before you dive into anything. avoid that cycle eh

[deegee]

rofls. 2guns just keep reading up on information before you dive into anything. avoid that cycle eh

lets hope this one has been abandoned, and more research is being done. good though to post and get advice

[Pseudonym]

good though to post and get advice

Absolutely. Research like this beforehand should be encouraged.

Much better to ask silly questions than to make silly mistakes.

[2guns]

i posted a similar thread on anabolex.com a while ago and got this relpy from a guy. which was totally different to wat everyone else was telling me on this site about one shot of 250mg/wk sus250. just wondering wat everyones thoughts were bout this guys opinion here it is:

Whatever! Don't listen to these guys. Guys have been growing fine off 250mgs of sust a week, especially if it's your first cycle. If you can bump it up to 500mgs a week then do so. And don't worry, unless you are very sensitive to side effects i.e. gyno, you don't need PCT because when you come off PCT you're gonna crash anyways. You've got guys on this board doing ****loads of test and 5 different compounds on a first cycle. And they still don't make any better gains than they would have doing a single cycle of say test enanthate. Your diet and workout will produce the results. The test is just a kick to help you recover and keep your body in a positive nitrogen balance, increase protein synthesis etc.. Remember your body naturally only produces 11mgs/dl or so of test a day anyways. 250mgs a week is plenty to grow on for a first cycle. Plus all the guys that recommend using high doses of test and PCT are the same guys that blow up when they are on, hold massive amounts of water etc. and lose a lot of it when they come off. If you can make gains with 250mgs of test a week that you wouldn't otherwise make naturally but that are not extreme then you can bump it up to 500mgs next cycle and gain a few more pounds. Then next cycle 750mgs and a few more pounds. Too many bros do this yo yo bull**** where they try to gain 20lbs on one cycle and most of it is fat and water.

[2guns]

and some one posted tht a male produces 400-450mgs of natural test a wk and this guy thinks they produce only 11mg/day

wats with tht?

whos right and whos wrong?

not trying to cause any trouble just trying to research and get the right answers.

cheers

[Pseudonym]

I can't answer your question, but I just wanted to congratulate you on the way you're conducting your research now. You're getting feedback from different sources, and comparing them critically. Well done - this is exactly how it should be done!

Anyway, hope someone else can be more help than me!

[Growth]

and some one posted tht a male produces 400-450mgs of natural test a wk and this guy thinks they produce only 11mg/day

lol, some of the information out there is laughable isnt it.

People on HRT therapy are given a 100-200mg shot of a long ester testosterone every two weeks. That pretty much puts there test levels in the high bracket of natural testosterone production, but generally not above it.

[markm]

I don't want to offend anyone, so please don't take offence, but I'm new to all this and am trying to get my head around the rules, so, some questions:

1) Are you supposed to be drug free for body building contests or not??? Are there some contests where you're allowed to take steroids and some contests that are natural??

2) Are the steroids people take illegal?? I don't mean just in terms of body buildings contests, but in the eye's of the law? Like is it as illegal as taking P, or extasy or whatever?

3) If the answer to question one is "yes, you're supposed to be drug free for contests", then presumably people still take steroids in the hope that they're not drug tested then do they, and if they get caught, then so be it??

Again, I'm not wanting to offend anyone. I'm just new and are trying to understand the rules and how it all works.

Cheers.

[2guns]

1) yes as far as i know all nz bodybuilding competitors r spoze to be natural. nzfbb is the only organisation in nz which drug tests. nabba and the inba rely on competitors honesty by making them sign an agreement sort of a thing.

2) alot of the steroids people use r prescription medicine. and as far as i know its against the law to have prescription medicine with out a prescription. ive heard its not tht hard to obtain a script. but if u think bout wher u take it and wat u do u shouldnt need to worry bout having one.

3) and yeah lots of people take steroids in hope they dnt get tested.

although some types of steroids only stay detectable in yr blood for a short amount of time wher as some r dectable for up to 18 months after yr last shot.

and finally i dnt see how yr post could have offended anyone. yr just asking questions and thts wat this site all about

[markm]

Thanks 2guns.

So my next question is:

Why would a totally natural bodybuilder work his arse off in the hope of competing when he knows there'll be physiques much better than his with the use of roids?

The reason I ask is that I'd love to be able to compete one day, and have no intention of taking any roids, but it doesn't motivate me to know that others that do take roids and will no doubt have a much better physique than me will also be competing.

[2guns]

ther r some guys tht compete tht are fully natural and have better phsiques than alot of people who use gear. but its not just about winning its also about being better yrself each time u jump on stage.

[deegee]

there are some purely natural competitions but mostly overseas , any nz cometition will have competitors who are, or who have in the past used some form of banned substance. You just need to accept this and train as hard as you can for yourself

[ama]

and some one posted tht a male produces 400-450mgs of natural test a wk ...

I posted that - go ask your doctor. If he knows anything about the testosterone production, he will agree.

[2guns]

ok bro sorry, the 3 answers i got back including growths and yrs wer not even close to each other. i was just asking who was right.

didnt mean to say u were wrong

[BodySculpt]

umm what i understand is the average male produces 4-7mg of test a day x 7days = 16 - 28mg a week.. bodybuilders inject on average 500mg of test a week.. surely if a man produced 400-450mg a week Test he'd be a monster!?

I got mine measured the other day and it came to 18nmols whatever that means!? anything lower than 11 nmol and HRT would be needed..

[2guns]

yeah, dnt mean to gang up on ama but im pretty sure yr wrong aye. even tho i havnt asked a GP. it jst seems really high and lots of other people on other forums have told me its round 11mg/day.

but thanks for yr input anyway

cheers

[Ash]

I got mine measured the other day and it came to 18nmols whatever that means!? anything lower than 11 nmol and HRT would be needed..

The normal range (according to Medlab) is 9-30nmol/L, so 18 is slightly below the middle of the range. If someone tested below 9, HRT might not be required because it may be possible to make dietary/lifestyle changes that will get it back into the normal range.