Keto advice!

[ComeAtMe]

Hey everybody,

I'm new to the site but just wanting to get some advice.

First a little bit about me.....

I have been going to the gym for about 18months now.

My weight before i started working out was a low 55kg now after bulking up i have reached a reasonable 86kg bodyweight.

Stats:

17yrs 86kg 15%bf 5'7

I'm looking at starting CKD (Keto) my goal is to get my bf down to 7-9% for summer and was wanting to ask if anyone had any advice/tips for me or problems they came across before i start this. At the moment i know a fair bit about how to achieve my goal through internet research but personally i don't think it's enough.

Thanks for your time.

[holdenman]

Well summer starts in 2 days so you're cutting it a bit fine :pfft:

Make sure you stick to it during the initiation and dont cheat, this can be extremely difficult mentally but after 2-3days you should be fine.

Have a CLEAN carb day, do not use it as an excuse to eat heaps of shit.

Spend a little time working out your macros, you may be suprised at the amount of carbs in some stuff. Try keep it to less than 30g carbs a day if you want full keto.

Eat your fats, dont be afraid of them, not having enough on this type of diet is a mistake.

Eat heaps of green veges.

Dont weigh yourself too often, your weight will yo-yo from depleted glycogen then carbing up etc. and this can put you off if you read too much into it.

[Pseudonym]

Good tips, holdenman. :nod:

[PeterDolan]

Dont weigh yourself too often, your weight will yo-yo from depleted glycogen then carbing up etc. and this can put you off if you read too much into it.

I disagree with you here but I understand where you're coming from. After the first couple of weeks, I weighed myself everyday, coupled with a food diary, and it allowed me to learn my body pretty well.

To the OP, look under this forum, there are plenty of articles on keto here with lots of advice, HM has given you some good info but learning from experiences from others is pretty invalueable

[Optimass]

Dont weigh yourself too often, your weight will yo-yo from depleted glycogen then carbing up etc. and this can put you off if you read too much into it.

I disagree with you here but I understand where you're coming from. After the first couple of weeks, I weighed myself everyday, coupled with a food diary, and it allowed me to learn my body pretty well.

I do too PD. (Hman - if you have a constant flow of water going in with each meal your weight regulates and will not fluctuate as much. 2 cups per meal x 6 meals = 3L per day. add 1L+ while you train and you'll find the weight wont change. ) if you can monitor and regulate the actual weight loss to .5 - 1kg per week you wont cause your muscle too much trauma. Will also make any caliper and or impedance fat tests more acurate.

Rem ... when running keto hydration is critical. In the absence of enough glycogen in the muscle, your body can/will store extra water which will minimise loss in size and aid recovery.

[ComeAtMe]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Well summer starts in 2 days so you're cutting it a bit fine :pfft:

Yeah i know , but i guess it was more on the lines of... If i was successful with my goal that i could pull it off next summer.

What supplements do you take in ketosis? would Multivitamins and Fish oil be enough, dont really want to be spending too much money.

Another question: So you deplete your body of carbs for 5-6 days then carb load for 1-2 days then start the cycle again? will carb load kick me out of ketosis?

Cheers.

[Optimass]

Thanks for all the info guys.

Well summer starts in 2 days so you're cutting it a bit fine :pfft:quote]

Yeah i know , but i guess it was more of a... If i was successful with my goal that i could pull it off next summer.

Another question: So you deplete your body of carbs for 5-6 days then carb load for 1-2 days then start the cycle again? will carb load kick me out of ketosis?

Cheers.

as soon as you have carbs it will bump you out of ketosis.

[PeterDolan]

will carb load kick me out of ketosis?

Yup so only take in 1 carb meal on one day of the week, it'll keep your thyroid hormones active. If you stick to it, train hard and do your cardio, then you can be where you want in a month easy

[ComeAtMe]

Can you buy ketostix at the pharmacy? just to be sure that im in keto.

Just to clarify, could i stay in ketosis for 3-4 weeks then carb load on the last day?

Also whats the maximum amount of time to spend in ketosis? isn't long periods of ketosis harmful to the body?

Thanks again.

[PeterDolan]

Have a carb meal at the end of each week

Keto sticks are a waste of money

[ComeAtMe]

Have a carb meal at the end of each week

How many carbs ?

[PeterDolan]

To give a cookie cutter answer, I'd say 50-60g

[Ronin]

Keto sticks are a waste of money

I'd second that. Even on less than 20g of carb per day my sticks still didn't show any sign of ketosis most of the time.

[Optimass]

Keto sticks are a waste of money

I'd second that. Even on less than 20g of carb per day my sticks still didn't show any sign of ketosis most of the time.

That's because it can take up to 14 days for some people to actually reach proper ketosis. On CKD I can't see how you can stay in ketosis 100%. (Or Anabolic Diet). Before I started the plan I would go at least 10 days with no carbs before I started the timed carb meals.

[ComeAtMe]

On CKD I can't see how you can stay in ketosis 100%. (Or Anabolic Diet). Before I started the plan I would go at least 10 days with no carbs before I started the timed carb meals.

I'm having second thoughts on doing CKD and instead to go ahead with full ketosis for 3-4 weeks no carbs. Good or bad?

[holdenman]

On CKD I can't see how you can stay in ketosis 100%. (Or Anabolic Diet). Before I started the plan I would go at least 10 days with no carbs before I started the timed carb meals.

I'm having second thoughts on doing CKD and instead to go ahead with full ketosis for 3-4 weeks no carbs. Good or bad?

I think CKD is better, as far as Im aware it has a lot of positive effects on hormones and if you carb up right it wont effect fat loss. I can go from a full carb day (hi carb/mod protein/almost no fat) to full blown ketosis in 12-18 hours according to ketostix.

[Muzz]

Hey ComeAtMe,

How's things?

I guess I can add my 10c worth, as I have been on Full time Keto since 25th October (37days now). I have a post (Keto/Cutting Advice)further down the Diet/Nutrition page, that I'm yet to update (Will do so after this), but if you see on the 3rd page of that post, I have mentioned my Stats, (Weight, Measurements, Gain/Loss, BF% etc).

I think the thing to remember here, is everyone responds differently to anything in life. Ketosis is no different.

I was originally on a CKD and didn't like the fluctuation in weight, as well as my measurements differing all the time (Carb Loading etc).

With Full Time Keto, my weight consistently drops, so does the BF% and my other measurements stay relatively the same (plus or minus a few mm here and there).

I seem to find that the only thing that drops dramatically are my Waist Measurements. And that there is what most are after (isn't it?), and as you know, if your midsection BF levels are decreasing, it ofcourse helps to reveal your abs, can't go wrong with that!

To give you an idea, my Stats to date are as follows:

26/8/10 On CKD, 88.1kg, 19.2%BF, Waist 94cm

25/10/10 Straight Keto, 85kg, 17%BF, Waist 89cm

13/11/10 S-Keto, 80.5kg, 12%BF, Waist 86.4cm

This Morning S-Keto, 78kg, 11%BF, Waist 82cm.

In 37days, I have lost 10.1kg, 8.2%BF, 12cm off my waist.

I will put up my Other measurements, that I did this morning on the my "Keto Advice post", after this. You will see, everything else stays relatively the same, except BF% Levels, and Weight.

In regards to Keto Sticks, its all a matter of opinion. If you want to Measure Ketosis using the Sticks, go hard. I have and still do every 2-3days. (IMO I always want to make sure everything is where I want it to be).

Yes they are sold at the Chemist and cost about $20 for 20sticks.

My Current Calorie Count is slightly under 2000cals/day. This ofcourse will help in the Weight Loss. But the diet is strict (Following the Keto principals to a Tee! Maintaining High protein, high Fat and very low Carbs).

I will continue Straight Keto until the 23rd Dec (23days and counting!!!).

I don't think I will achieve the lean 6-7% I was wanting to, but I will strive like hell to get to 9 and who knows, might get to 8%? Guess we will see aye?

Positives with Full Time Keto......

Rapid Fat Loss

Strength the same, maybe a tiny drop? (But mine has stayed pretty consistent).

Energy Levels..... Shattering at the start, but now as Good as Gold!

Negatives...... Short Term Memory Loss

CRAVINGS!!!!!!!!!! You miss Bread, Pasta, ALL CONFECTIONARY (Well I do), Alcohol, .... just in general, anything and everything that you know doesn't do your body any long term favors!

You are 17yrs old, so your metabolism would be fairly high.

Have you worked out your required cal count, macros etc?

Hope this may have helped?

Sing out if you wanna know anything else.

Muzz

[holdenman]

Negatives...... Short Term Memory Loss

CRAVINGS!!!!!!!!!! You miss Bread, Pasta, ALL CONFECTIONARY (Well I do), Alcohol, .... just in general, anything and everything that you know doesn't do your body any long term favors!

Muzz

Nothing wrong with alcohol on a keto diet as long as it fits into your overall calorie calculations (obviously no bourbon and cokes!).

"Alcohol isn’t metabolized as a carbohydrate product, and it doesn’t send your blood sugar shooting upward. (It might actually lower it.) The body sends alcohol to the liver where it becomes first in line as an active energy source rather than stored glycogen."

[Ronin]

26/8/10 On CKD, 88.1kg, 19.2%BF, Waist 94cm

25/10/10 Straight Keto, 85kg, 17%BF, Waist 89cm

13/11/10 S-Keto, 80.5kg, 12%BF, Waist 86.4cm

This Morning S-Keto, 78kg, 11%BF, Waist 82cm.

In 37days, I have lost 10.1kg, 8.2%BF, 12cm off my waist.

Muzz

Not trying to dispute that keto is effective, as I'm a believer myself... just wondering what happened on the other 59 days?

[PeterDolan]

"Alcohol isn’t metabolized as a carbohydrate product, and it doesn’t send your blood sugar shooting upward. (It might actually lower it.) The body sends alcohol to the liver where it becomes first in line as an active energy source rather than stored glycogen."

Alcohol lowers Test levels and has NO place on any diet!!!

I'm pretty sure that your body cannot use alcohol as a energy source until it's converted to fat, what study did you get that from?

[Muzz]

Hey Ronin,

Whoops, I just re-read that, and (Again I forgot) to proof read before sending it.

I'll correct that:

From the 26/8/10 (I was 88.1kg) to the 25/10/10 (85kg) - The part in which you are talking about, there was only a 3.1kg loss, 2.2%BF drop and 5cm off the waist, in 59days

The Carb loads (weekends) in that time weren't as strict as it should've been, rather than just 24hours Carb Loading, I was more in favor of 48hours.

(That's the Whoops part).......Thought I got a bit ahead of myself. (Sorry about that "all")

However from the 25/10/10 to this morning (37days),(now78kgs), loss of 7kgs, 6%BF and 7cm off the waist.

Lost more now in half the time and the weights aren't fluctuating like they were on the CKD and neither are the measurements.

Hence, this is one of the reasons I by far prefer a Full Time Keto instead of a CKD (However, would only do it for a few months at the most).

Miss the Bad Stuff, you know

Again, Sorry about that!

[ComeAtMe]

Hey Muzz,

Thanks for all the info and advice really helps a bunch.

I guess I can add my 10c worth, as I have been on Full time Keto since 25th October (37days now). I have a post (Keto/Cutting Advice)further down the Diet/Nutrition page, that I'm yet to update (Will do so after this), but if you see on the 3rd page of that post, I have mentioned my Stats, (Weight, Measurements, Gain/Loss, BF% etc).

I've actually been flicking through your post since you started. Since reading your post it made me think more and understand a bit more about keto dieting.

In 37days, I have lost 10.1kg, 8.2%BF, 12cm off my waist.

Well done! that is truly remarkable. :clap:

Have you worked out your required cal count, macros etc?

I'm working on it :nod: though i wouldn't mind setting my plan out like yours. What website did you use to calculate daily cal intake and cals/proteins/fats from foods.

Hence, this is one of the reasons I by far prefer a Full Time Keto instead of a CKD (However, would only do it for a few months at the most)

Isn't long periods of full ketosis bad for the body? I thought 3-4 weeks was maximum? but i guess you proved that wrong.

Also, something completely different... i have been doing a 3-day split weights training for the last 18 months. Would i be better off changing to a 4 or 5-day split (not for Keto purposes) . Also i don't have a training partner/spotter.

Cheers.

[holdenman]

"Alcohol isn’t metabolized as a carbohydrate product, and it doesn’t send your blood sugar shooting upward. (It might actually lower it.) The body sends alcohol to the liver where it becomes first in line as an active energy source rather than stored glycogen."

Alcohol lowers Test levels and has NO place on any diet!!!

I'm pretty sure that your body cannot use alcohol as a energy source until it's converted to fat, what study did you get that from?

No studies as such

But heres my understanding.. Alcohol can not be stored and must be oxidised to get rid of it. Your body can not convert it into glucose. The liver eventually turns it into acetic acid. The acetic acid is broken down to carbon dioxide and water then excreted by the kidneys. Calories that are not immediately used for energy are stored as triglycerides. So, yes, your body turns alcohol into fat to use as energy (it should be thought of as a fat imo). But, no, it will not effect ketosis, merely postpone it until the alcohol has been processed.

Alcohol is a hollow calorie and has a higher calorie count per gram than carbs so I agree that its not good for your diet, but a few calculated drinks can absolutely be part of a succesful one.

[Muzz]

ComeAtMe

As you would've saw, I made a mistake in the measurements etc,

25/10/10 (85kg) to this morning (37days),(now78kgs), I had lost 7kgs, 6%BF and 7cm off the waist.

Whereas, the 26/8/10 (I was 88.1kg) to the 25/10/10 (85kg) only a 3.1kg loss, 2.2%BF drop and 5cm off the waist, in 59days

This is why I stayed on a "Straight Full Time Keto".

In regards to Long Term Keto, and whether its Bad for you? I haven't noticed anything? Again, I think it's all a matter of opinion, and whats working and whats not. At this point in time, it's working for me, so I'll stick with it.

Training Splits. Well, there are alot of guys n girls on this site who know a Million times more than I. So the only advice I can give you, is what I am doing at this point in time.

(Remember, your Energy levels get very depleted at the start of Keto, but after a while, it's gets better, then you're just like you were prior to the diet). So with this in mind You may require to build up to the Training Program I am doing at the mo. (Just a thought).

Volume dominant + high cardio

Monday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

Tuesday - Quads/Hamstrings/Calves

Wednesday - Back/Biceps/Rear delts

Thursday - Cardio/Abs

Friday - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

Saturday - Back/Biceps/Traps

Sunday - OFF/ Abs

Cardio first thing in the Morning (Mon-Fri) - Low-intensity cardio 45 min Treadmill 5.0km/h 12 deg. incline

(I have sent you a copy of my program in detail- Check your Message Box).

Apart from that, some of the Older Hands can recommend differing advice in regards to Split training programs.

There's a reason I am doing this program in particular, as it has worked in the past for me. The only difference being the Diet.

In regards to your Macro/Cals details (Again, check your Message box), a few pointers in there for you.

Hope this has helped Bro,

Muzz

[ComeAtMe]

Any thoughts on my keto diet would be much appreciated. Just started keto today.

Current Stats: 17yrs 86kg 15%bf 5’7

Calorie, Protein, Fat and Carbohydrate Count:

• 2796 calories per day (for fat loss)

• Protein: 174g per day (696 calories)

• Carbohydrates: 30g per day (120 calories)

• Fat: 223g per day (1980 calories)

Meal 1: 10am

200g Bacon

4 Whole Eggs

2 Tbsp Olive Oil

100ml Milk (Trim)

Protein=61.5g Carbs=10.1g Fats=81.6g Calories=1,010

Meal 2: 12pm

50g Cottage Cheese

100g Broccoli

1 ½ tsp Peanut Butter

Protein=26.75g Carbs=1.05g Fats=4.25g Calories=124

Meal 3: 3pm

92.5g Tuna (Half can)

100g Broccoli

2 Tbsp Olive Oil

3 tsp Mayo

Protein=21.3g Carbs=3.1g Fats=39.45g Calories=491.5

Meal 4: 5pm

50g Edam Cheese

3 tsp Peanut Butter

Protein=17.8g Carbs=2.4g Fats=20.9g Calories=270

Meal 5: 8pm

100g Beef Steak

3 tsp Mayo

2 Tbsp Olive Oil

Protein=15.2g Carbs= 0.2g Fats=44.8g Calories=524

Meal 6: 11pm

2 Egg whites + 2 Whole eggs

3 tsp Mayo

100ml Milk (Trim)

Proteins=31.5g Carbs=5.5g Fats=22.2g Calories=325

Protein Total: 174g

Carb Total: 22.35g

Fat Total: 213.2g

Calorie Total: 2,744.5

Excess Left Over:

Protein: 0g

Carbs: 7.65g

Fats: 9.8g

Calories: 51.5

Also with the amount of eggs i am consuming per day, will this raise my cholesterol levels much? as a friend of mine is concerned and thinks i'll have high cholesterol, is he correct?

Cheers guys.