fat burn ers?

[maccaz]

Hey all, have been cutting for the last couple months down to 112 (started 121).

Have heard some good things about certain fat burners and was wondering what you guys would recommend (I know most say diet+exercise, cardio deficit is all you need) but if i was going to try a fat burner, what would you recommend?

what do they generally do, increase metabolism?

Do you get any side effects like feeling "buzzed out" (not too keen on this)

thx in advance for any input you guys have, i was thinking something like http://www.shotgunsupplements.co.nz/sho ... +caps.html

or

http://www.shotgunsupplements.co.nz/sho ... Caps..html

[PeterDolan]

Fat burners available in NZ are a waste of money really, just drink coffee (or take no-doze), green tea, take L-Carnitine and your set. Also fish and evening primrose oil, and even conjugated linoliec acid (CLA) although the research isn't solid

Also a 2 week lay off from being calorie restricted (so eat more but only clean food) will boost that metabolism again for some weeks

[maccaz]

sweet will start drinking coffee see if i notice anything, do you drink it morning and pre work out or?

[PeterDolan]

I'm numb to it now haha I'd do roughly 100mg pre cardio/first thing in the am, and 1-2 times more through out the day

[Phedder]

From what I've heard/read about the NZ one's they're pretty useless, PDs recommendations would probably get you better results. Any particular reason you wanted to try them? Out of curiosity or getting to that stubborn fat?

[maccaz]

just wondering cos i always hear about them, see advertising etc so figured they must do something, thought i might try speed up my cut as rate im losing seemed to slow down (ie havent noticed any change in over a week now, but i guess thats to be expected)

[Ronin]

That plateau could be due to a metabolic slowdown as a result of lowered leptin levels. This is a consequence of restricted calories. Easy way to get past it is to have reqular re-feed days, whereby you eat the same foods, but more of them. Go above maintenance for the day, leptin level rises, and metabolism picks up again. If necessary, extend it out to a few days, and every couple of months or so take a 1-2 week diet break.

[Phedder]

see advertising etc so figured they must do something,

If only aye :wink:

Have you been having refeeds or "cheat days" etc, or just kept on a deficit the whole time?

edit: Ronin beat me to it I've read something about carbs being the best for inducing a strong leptin reponse as it appears to be correlated to insulin response.

[maccaz]

sweet as guys cheers will give that a crack

[gizzykid]

I've heard about 'refeed' days but have not really looked too far into it. Would you guys recommend introducing them in every cutting diet or just use them if progress slows and you reach a plateau?

[PeterDolan]

I've heard about 'refeed' days but have not really looked too far into it. Would you guys recommend introducing them in every cutting diet or just use them if progress slows and you reach a plateau?

People over use and abuse them, I'd prefer carb cycling instead

[Ronin]

People ... abuse them

I think that's the problem right there. They're not meant to be pizza'n'ice-cream orgies, just a short-term increase in "clean" caloric intake. But it seems that some people view them as an excuse to gorge themselves on crap.

[Phedder]

Depends how high your starting bodyfat is, Leptin is an adipose derived hormone, so plenty of BF = plenty of circulating leptin to begin with, so you could go longer without introducing them if you stared at say 20%bf compared to an already leaner, 10%bf individual. But generally once progress slows, and especially if it plateaus they are definitely worth trying to keep the rate of fat loss up, or just kick start it again. They have the greatest impact if you're dieting low carb, so reintroducing lots of carbs spikes the leptin right back up, whereas if you're keeping moderate carbs in the diet leptin levels won't drop as low, but still worthwhile including refeeds to raise it again, it just won't be as dramatic.

Definitely a big difference between a cheat day and refeed. Cheats tend to be more "I've been a good boy and deserve all the bad things i've been excluding" whereas refeeds tend to have a more strategic purpose. Easy to abuse the 'I've been good' mentality, but refeeds tend to be more planned and strategic so shouldn't present as much of an issue.

[PeterDolan]

You shouldn't even have cheat days in the off season, just a cheat meal, maybe two

[gizzykid]

People ... abuse them

I think that's the problem right there. They're not meant to be pizza'n'ice-cream orgies, just a short-term increase in "clean" caloric intake. But it seems that some people view them as an excuse to gorge themselves on crap.

Definitely a big difference between a cheat day and refeed. Cheats tend to be more "I've been a good boy and deserve all the bad things i've been excluding" whereas refeeds tend to have a more strategic purpose. Easy to abuse the 'I've been good' mentality, but refeeds tend to be more planned and strategic so shouldn't present as much of an issue.

Yep, def wasn't planning on introducing a "cheat day" (I rarely have or crave cheat meals), was just curious what the reasoning behind 'refeeding' was and whether I should be introducing them into my diet.

Might save those suckers til I get desperate.

[PeterDolan]

I rarely have or crave cheat meals

Haha wait til you can't have that shit!

[Specter]

I'm numb to it now haha I'd do roughly 100mg pre cardio/first thing in the am, and 1-2 times more through out the day

so roughly in day 200 - 300mg all up bro?

I've heard about 'refeed' days but have not really looked too far into it. Would you guys recommend introducing them in every cutting diet or just use them if progress slows and you reach a plateau?

People over use and abuse them, I'd prefer carb cycling instead

I agree with that statement, carb cycling is the biz!

[PeterDolan]

so roughly in day 200 - 300mg all up bro?

I'd say so but that could be too much for some people, if you know you are sensitive to caffeine then be smart about it

[PeterDolan]

*Disclaimer

I'm not a doctor, if it fucks up your shit, I ain't taking the fall :shifty:

[Specter]

*Disclaimer

I'm not a doctor, if it fucks up your shit, I ain't taking the fall :shifty:

all good, I use to take 2 no dose and a cup of back coffee 30min out from 5.30am training when city fitness thorndon was a real gym aka BODYWORKS! :pfft:

[PeterDolan]

*Disclaimer

I'm not a doctor, if it fucks up your shit, I ain't taking the fall :shifty:

all good, I use to take 2 no dose and a cup of back coffee 30min out from 5.30am training when city fitness thorndon was a real gym aka BODYWORKS! :pfft:

I wish I could've seen that, trained legs there once, had a good feel to it

[gizzykid]

I rarely have or crave cheat meals

Haha wait til you can't have that shit!

Haha yep probably true. I'm only a couple weeks into my cut and the fresh baked bread the old lady makes is already starting to smell pretty good.

[weener lad]

Why shouldn't we be having cheat days in the off season? Blanket rules around diet are never a good thing, we are all very different as are our metabolisms! :wink:

Your best bet is to try every bodies advice and see what works best for you. A single cheat meal or re-feed may be enough to jump start things again. If not have a day off, don't go silly just introduce a few meals high in carbs and fat. If you are worried about doing any of the above you can up your portion sizes and see if that does the trick.

[PeterDolan]

Why shouldn't we be having cheat days in the off season?

Because it is a bad thing for your body, a high calorie day would be a better approach with a cheat meal or two

To me a cheat day means eating "high calorie" food the whole day

[weener lad]

Because it is a bad thing for your body, a high calorie day would be a better approach with a cheat meal or two

To me a cheat day means eating "high calorie" food the whole day

You will have to be more specific PD how is a cheat day bad for your body???? Others I know and myself have used them for years with no issues at all. In fact I rely on them and my BF% very rarely comes above 10%!