Diet... Bulking now Triming... Too much??

[GTLBloke]

Hi Guys,

I only started seriously going to the gym about 7 months ago. My goal, to bulk up and put on some muscle. I was really skinny when I first started, 5'11 69kgs, so I knew from the out set I would need to increase my nutrition, protien inputs, and NEVER skip a meal.

After about a month of hitting the gym most days I started to notice my weight increase pretty dramatically, and after about 4 months I was hitting 80kgs. Started getting muscles in places I never thought I would... triceps?... wow, thats cool etc. However, I was also starting to put on fat and which I guess is pretty understandable.

Just over a month ago I started to cut out carbs after 12 and doing higher rep workouts at the gym 12-15 instead of 6-8. Also doing jump rope once or twice a day for 10-15min. In doing do I have dropped from 82kg - 74kg

I'm starting to rip up pretty well, pretty much have a six pack in the mornings...

The PROBLEM...

I kinda feel that I am going back to where I started, I'm starting to feel skinny again. I'm still keeping up my protein intake etc and trying to maintain muscle. However, I just feel very lean. I really don't want to lose any more muscle mass!! But, I want to drop a little more fat!

Any Tips?

:roll:

[mike27]

keep lifting heavy to retain muscle

keep protein intake high

eat -500cals less than ur daily bmr

you should only loose up to 1kg per week while cutting, anymore and its likly to be muscle

perform cardio 4,5,6days a week. different therioes on when to do it and how much etc.

keep eating 5-6 smaller meals each day

drink plenty of water

rest

sleep

so u went from 82kg to 74 in a month??? to fast a drop. likely that you have dropped some muscle as a result

id be carefull cutting out carbs too much, i made that mistake and dropped too much weight to quick and lost some muscle

just work out ur bmr and take off 500cals per day.

also eat complex carbs like sweet pot,quinoa,brown rice. oats

[GTLBloke]

Thanks for your response Mike,

I still have complex carbs for lunch. However I have cut them out for dinner. So my only real low carb meal is dinner where I have steak and beans.

I think one of the bigest things that could of caused such a big drop over the last couple of months is that I have swiched from Mutant Mass, a meal replacement protein to a 100% whey protein. So this coupled with my smaller meals and less carbs, and cardo would of been a shock to the system I guess?

Mutant Mass = Fat, well for me away!

[GTLBloke]

Also, how do I work out my BMR?

I know my BMI?

[mike27]

a bmr calculator from the web

google it

[GTLBloke]

a bmr calculator from the web

google it

Thanks Mate,

I actually have it on one of my Iphone apps... I'm already at 410 calories, with lunch still to come!

[mike27]

i think you'll be aiming for around 3100cals per day

[GTLBloke]

i think you'll be aiming for around 3100cals per day

I got this from one a calculator off the net...

Your Basal Metabolic Rate is 1791 kCal/day (7498 kJ/day)

So I was thinking 1300cals per day...

I'm comsuming about that at the moment. Probably just over...

[rose]

The PROBLEM...

1300cals per day...

[Phedder]

What Rose is saying is that 1300 is WAY to low. In my opinion you should never eat below your BMR, that's what your body needs to function at nil activity, ie lying in a bed all day, not moving. Unless you were doing a PSMF but let's not get into that. You've likely put your body in starvation mode, so it's burning muscle and holding onto fat in case the starvation continues and it needs the fat for fuel later on.

Going to higher reps was possibly a bad idea as well, along with all the cardio you're body will be forced to burn muscle as fuel. Keep the reps low and the weight high to tell the body that the muscle needs to stick around.

Honestly at 5'11" and 74kgs, if you're already relatively lean there's no point in continuing to drop weight. I'd up the intake until you slowly start gaining again, aim for maybe a 500g gain a week. Should be able to keep fat gains minimal with that and continue to build muscle.

[tomsammce]

everyone here is obsessed with eating the most calories they can lol. quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

[Phedder]

quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

Uh what :shock: ? Quantity of calories is what determines whether you'll gain or lose weight. Quality of the calories matters a bit in respect to health, but little else.

[runveerun]

everyone here is obsessed with eating the most calories they can lol. quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

A calorie is a calorie. If you are trying to get LARGE it is difficult to eat big on so called 'clean food'.

ANYWAY the OPs problem is that he is eating too little.

The PROBLEM...

I kinda feel that I am going back to where I started, I'm starting to feel skinny again. I'm still keeping up my protein intake etc and trying to maintain muscle. However, I just feel very lean. I really don't want to lose any more muscle mass!! But, I want to drop a little more fat!

Any Tips?

:roll:

Feeling skinny, not liking it and wanting to lose more fat? I don't get it.

[Gym rat]

Keep the rep the range in the 8 to 12 and using good fourm as well since you are bulking I would also suggest having some good fats as welll suck flax seed,peanutbutter,nuts etc

[tomsammce]

A calorie is a calorie?? ur joking right...

calories are made up of carbs protein fats. there can be good types and bad types of each of this for building muscle. there are also empty calories. so you cant really say a calorie is a calorie

yeah more calories puts on weight... yeah fat if your eating too much and wrong types. u guys all wanna stuff as many calories in as u can and bulk up or what i call getting fat.

example. if u eat 8000cal or mcdonalds a day and i eat 3000 calories of quality calorie foods a day and we are both at same weight. who u thinks gonna put on my muscle and who u think is gonna look like shit?

ur eating over twice the amount of calories in that example and for what??

[Monarchking]

everyone here is obsessed with eating the most calories they can lol. quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

i did the whole "I dont give a f*ck about what type of food Im getting in my face" and ate a fucken shit load. Hotdogs and pies for breakfast, and Bigmacs and cheeseburgers for post workouts on top of the good food, and a shit load of other crap like litres of milk and

Now I am gutted with myself cos i have massive flab. and my diet is much better quality.

[tomsammce]

quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

Uh what :shock: ? Quantity of calories is what determines whether you'll gain or lose weight. Quality of the calories matters a bit in respect to health, but little else.

quality of calories matters to alot more things just health, especially for a natural athlete u should look into have more quality.... u might get some gains :wink:

[tomsammce]

everyone here is obsessed with eating the most calories they can lol. quality of the calories is more important than the quantity of the calories.

i did the whole "I dont give a f*ck about what type of food Im getting in my face" and ate a fucken shit load. Hotdogs and pies for breakfast, and Bigmacs and cheeseburgers for post workouts on top of the good food, and a shit load of other crap like litres of milk and

Now I am gutted with myself cos i have massive flab. and my diet is much better quality.

yes, ppl think because they go to the gym an hour a day they can eat all that and not look like those ppl who have to get craned out of they house when they dead at 35 years old.

[runveerun]

A calorie is a calorie?? ur joking right...

calories are made up of carbs protein fats. there can be good types and bad types of each of this for building muscle.

yeah more calories puts on weight... yeah fat if your eating too much and wrong types. u guys all wanna stuff as many calories in as u can and bulk up or what i call getting fat.

example. if u eat 8000cal or mcdonalds a day and i eat 3000 calories of quality calorie foods a day and we are both at same weight. who u thinks gonna put on my muscle and who u think is gonna look like shit?

ur eating over twice the amount of calories in that example and for what??

That example doesn't make any sense, if somebody is eating 3 times more calories as somebody else at the same weight OF COURSE there is a difference. If they eat three times more calories on so called clean food they would still put on more weight. The nutritional breakdown of the food is what matters, a calorie is a calorie. You said that a calorie is different in different foods which it is not. The nutritional breakdown of foods is what makes it different.

The OP still needs to eat more food clean, dirty or otherwise.

[Monarchking]

because the scales were moving so fast It became addictive, should have realy kept body fat levels or sumthing so I woke up out of the rut earlier.

:grin:

[Phedder]

Who is you guys? No one in here is trying to stuff in as many calories as possible, no idea where you picked that from.

Yes, a calorie is a calorie. It's a measure of energy, no disputing that.

Why compare 8kcal of Mcds to 3kcals of 'clean' eating? I've already said number of calories is the most important aspect. From you're example I'd say the 8kcal diet will put on more muscle, it'll just be harder to see under the fat gain that'll go with it.

Number of calories is what matters most when trying to gain or lose weight, then I would rank macro-nutrient ratio next, ie how many carbs, fats, and proteins, and THEN I would rank 'quality' of calories.

Could you please clarify what you mean exactly by the 'quality' of calories, I'm assuming you mean where they're coming from? i.e 20g of carbs from soft drink compared to kumara.

For the record I consider my diet to consist of good 'quality' foods. But number of calories and the macro nutrient breakdown is what matters most.

I should have clarified earlier that I don't consider the quality of food to be unimportant, I consider it to be less important compared to number and macro ratio of calories.

[rose]

u guys all wanna stuff as many calories in as u can and bulk up or what i call getting fat.

Bit of a generalisation, I didn't see any posts telling the guy to gorge on McD's or eat as many calories as he can? That strategy is on par with eating 1300 calories a day.

[tomsammce]

weight management is just a simple game of math to u aint it... lol and u probably think a lil along the lines of this - to maintain your current weight you need to consume the same amount of calories you body burns each day.

to lose a pound u need to create a calorie deficit of blah blah.. weather u create that deficit by eating less fat, less carbs, less protein or a lil less of everything is immaterial?

it sounds simple and sensible to u but its actually not true.

a calorie is not a calorie, in more than one sense. carbohydrate, fat and protein calories are YES equal by definition in terms of their energy content. but the body processes each in a different way and these differences have real implications for weight management. also food calories of all types have very different effects on the body depending on when they are eaten and what they are eaten with.

few points why all calories aint equal

a) the energy cost to burn fat, carbs and protein is different

b) protein reduces appetite

c) calorie restriction slows metabolism

d) fibre reduces calorie absorption

e) timing of eating affects calorie processing

[Rookie]

Ok not trying to have a go at anyone just in case I get called an ignorant bastard again:

I started eating round 2000cals about 3 months ago.

Strength went up and I started getting hungrier- began to eat more, I got taught to eat protein and carbs at each meal. Carbs were usually kumara or white sushi rice and oats. Protein is usually chicken breasts, fish, and beef..

Gained 10kg in 12 weeks and minimal fat gain. You need to take into account the insulin response of the food- sugar will spike insulin way higher compared to rice etc (same amounts in this case)- ie 80g carbs from rice and 80carbs from energy drink or something

My body fat is only a tad higher than when I was 77kg, now 87-88kg.

The fat gain is almost unnoticable.

Conclusion- in my case quality did matter because I would know what would happen to me if I had majority of carbs from simple sugars..

Rookie

[Phedder]

to maintain your current weight you need to consume the same amount of calories you body burns each day.

to lose a pound u need to create a calorie deficit

Yes

weather u create that deficit by eating less fat, less carbs, less protein or a lil less of everything is immaterial?

No.

I think we're actually in agreement somewhat, just haven't realised it.

Number of calories is what matters most when trying to gain or lose weight, then I would rank macro-nutrient ratio next, ie how many carbs, fats, and proteins, and THEN I would rank 'quality' of calories.

To you 'quality' refers to where the calories are coming from, fats carbs and proteins? I call that the macro-nutrient ratio. I agree that is VERY important. I understand the different processes that carbs, fats, and proteins undergo in the body and how they relate to many processes.

a) Yes, it's called the thermic effect of food, or TEF.

b) as does fat, they are much more satiating than carbs.

c) Yes, it causes a decrease in many hormones, one of which that is quite important is Leptin which effects appetite and metabolism. Low leptin = low metabolism.

d) I'll agree somewhat, but not to any significant effect.

e) Not entire sure what you mean here?