PCT after Test/Deca

[AgentOrange]

Why is nolva not recommended as PCT for a cycle that includes deca?

Can anyone suggest a good attainable PCT for 12 weeks deca 14 weeks test?

[r1ngworm]

just nolva?

[AgentOrange]

I have read that just Nolva is not sufficient some places and other places i have read nolva on hand incase of gyno is useless with deca.

Have also read some people suggest HCG throughout cycle and some say just include with pct.

So many conflicting opinions. perhaps musclenz can chime in with his advice?

[thatwaslight]

if you are talking about gyno from deca it is a result of high prolactin rather than high estrogen, nolva helps with estro issues. for high prolactin your need the likes of bromo or caber.

I'm no expert but as far as i'm aware prolactin cannot metabolize in the absence of estrogen so running an AI like arimidex would prevent excessive prolactin buildup

but your better hearing from the resident endo mnz.

[Hone]

As far as PCT goes I do the following protocol whether I am on test or test/ 19Nor compounds.

hcg 500iu every 5 days injected sub q while on cycle or if it coincides with a pinning day I simply mix the hcg with the test, test/tren what ever the case may be and pin it all together IM.

clomid 100/50/50/50

nolva 20/20/20/20

If I feel I have not recovered enough then I will extend the clomid/nolva by a week or 2. Blood tests are the only way to know for sure otherwise it is only a guessing game to be fair.

There are people who advocate using AI's as part of the PCT protocol but using SERM's work for me and I see no reason to change at the moment.

I agree that musclenz is the man to ask.

[goku_kakarot77]

DO NOT use nolva or toremifene or similar drugs synthetic estrogens even clomid with 19nors (deca, npp, tren) or a short time after u drop them. 19nors are progestins, therefore they increase PgR receptors in breast tissues. nolva, being an estrogen, binds to progesterone receptors, which raises the possibility for a nipple tumor growth. i dont think many people are aware of this too,

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

just my 2c

peace

[AgentOrange]

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

Excellent post goku... so you think i can:

Post cycle: 200mg Vitamin b6 ED with an AI + 1000iu split into 2 doses twice a week.

anything during cycle?

[goku_kakarot77]

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

Excellent post goku... so you think i can:

Post cycle: 200mg Vitamin b6 ED with an AI + 1000iu split into 2 doses twice a week.

anything during cycle?

2 weeks after last shot..

first week of pct use a high dose of b6 400mgs ed, second week drop it to 300mgs ed, then drop to 200mgs ed untill the gear clears your system, deca stays for a while in ya (you can use the b6 200mg ed while on your deca to suppress prolactin, cause man thats a nasty hormone), use adex or aromasin, either 0.5mg adex ed or 25mg aromasin ed, yup 500iu hcg 2xweek, thats for pct

as for while your on, use the b6 like a previously stated 200mg ed, also 1/4 tab adex ed, and hcg 250iu 2x week to suppress the atrophy of your testicals.

i know of a few people who used nolva with deca and for pct after deca and tren and the result was not good, BAD GYNO!

just a note on the side, that high dose of B6 might give some headaches etc, if it happens just lower it a bit

play it safe bro

peace

[r1ngworm]

DO NOT use nolva or toremifene or similar drugs synthetic estrogens even clomid with 19nors (deca, npp, tren) or a short time after u drop them. 19nors are progestins, therefore they increase PgR receptors in breast tissues. nolva, being an estrogen, binds to progesterone receptors, which raises the possibility for a nipple tumor growth. i dont think many people are aware of this too,

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

just my 2c

peace

i have never heard of this but would be interesting to hear mnz comments on nolva and 19 nors.im using nolva/aromasin and has got rid of a little growth from our favourite TREN

but cheers for the post bro.something to research about eh

[goku_kakarot77]

DO NOT use nolva or toremifene or similar drugs synthetic estrogens even clomid with 19nors (deca, npp, tren) or a short time after u drop them. 19nors are progestins, therefore they increase PgR receptors in breast tissues. nolva, being an estrogen, binds to progesterone receptors, which raises the possibility for a nipple tumor growth. i dont think many people are aware of this too,

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

just my 2c

peace

i have never heard of this but would be interesting to hear mnz comments on nolva and 19 nors.im using nolva/aromasin and has got rid of a little growth from our favourite TREN

but cheers for the post bro.something to research about eh

nolva upregulates progesteron receptors making u more suspectible to gyno, thats old news everyone showed know that by now, its prob ur aromasin reducing thw work at reducing ur gyno, ya need some b6/pram/dost/bromo in there to shrink it to nothing

peace

[goku_kakarot77]

DO NOT use nolva or toremifene or similar drugs synthetic estrogens even clomid with 19nors (deca, npp, tren) or a short time after u drop them. 19nors are progestins, therefore they increase PgR receptors in breast tissues. nolva, being an estrogen, binds to progesterone receptors, which raises the possibility for a nipple tumor growth. i dont think many people are aware of this too,

if you want to do pct after test/deca, use vitamin b6 200mgs ed or bromo 2.5mg ed or pramipexole 0.5mg ed.. along with AI like adex or exemestane , if u can get HCG that would be even better 500iu 2x week , do this 2 weeks after your last shot of test/deca for 3 weeks and ur golden,

just my 2c

peace

i have never heard of this but would be interesting to hear mnz comments on nolva and 19 nors.im using nolva/aromasin and has got rid of a little growth from our favourite TREN

but cheers for the post bro.something to research about eh

nolva upregulates progesteron receptors making u more suspectible to prolactin induced gyno, nolva is a estrogen and estrogens work synergistically with progestins. its prob ur aromasin doing the work at reducing ur gyno, ya need some b6/pram/dost/bromo in there to shrink it to nothing

peace

[Riccardo]

Goku is right.

Nolva up regulates progesterone receptor (PgR) in the first 2 weeks of use as the concentration builds up in your body. Even just at a low dose over a longer period of time the PgR synthesis will increase. After the 2 weeks at a high enough dose nolva will actually decrease PgR synthesis but by then its too late, gyno has most likely already formed and will be a bitch to get rid of.

Your best bet for an anti-estrogen is an aromatase inhibitor inhibitor like aromasin. other ancillaries as goku suggested as well.

[EMC]

ive never heard of this protocol. wouldnt it be easier to just run caber or prami throughout and then a nolva clomid pct?

[musclenz]

Sorry Guys been a bit tied up with NABBA/WFF to comment on this thread. Briefly though Goku has got it pretty right. 19 Nors like Nandrolone & Trenbolone work on different pathways than does Testosterone. So these cause different estrogen/ progesterone sides. Generally speaking though, you wil not have too many problems from Deca up to 500mg PW providing your Test dose is well above it. I would be using 750mg TestE or Sust if I had 500 od Deca in my stack. Trenbolone can be quite nasty in doses over 50mg ed & raise activity at the PgR. However as pointed out by twl, you need increased estrogen levels to have the synergy with progesterone to convert to prolactin at the pituitary. So lot of guys advocate using an AI like Aromasin or Femara on 19 nor cycles to knock this out. The trouble using SERMS like Nolvadex is it is not as effective at killing estrogen as an AI. That is why its called a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator. It only works on some tissue. Did you know also that Nolvadex tamoxifen) can inhibit IGF production in the body. No IGF no GH. So this is one reason for not using Nolva on a PCT. I will have to dig up the research on this. Still its a cheap & reasonably effective way of controlling estrogen.

[goku_kakarot77]

also something on the side, aromasin is fantastic and stimulating LH secretion in your pituatary , key factor for for a good pct, just like HCG does too,

peace