GST-free veges or a gym membership?

[Pseudonym]

NZ Herald columnist Deborah Hill Cone has suggested that

"instead of taking the GST off fruit and veges, the Labour Opposition would be better off giving every slugabed beneficiary a membership to Les Mills."

Never mind the cheaper carrots, try a few workouts instead.

Now, overlook her almost-religious worship of Les Mills, and her comments about "all the downtrodden, morbidly obese solo mothers living in squalor" (just a slight exaggeration perhaps, Debs?!). Once you get past all of that, what do you think... does she have a point?

[BarBrother]

I get where she is coming from but it still wouldnt matter. Price aint the problem it is attitude. There was a study that was published ( unsure of date exactly) which discovered that level of physical acvtivity was not a factor in determining youth obesity... :shock:

It still comes down to attitude. How many people buy a memebership then dont turn up and even soem peopel a the gym have worse eating habits then people who dont go. Its personal choice and if peopel choose to take the easy option they may pay the price. But then again they wont put on weight due to poor nutrition, it will be glandular :roll:

[Chillicat]

Yeah true, if people are happy to pay their own money for a membership then not bother going to the gym, then people given free memberships are likely to care even less about the wasted money.

[TonganTerror]

Its not the money factor as far as going to a gym goes its attitude, if someone isnt dedicated then having a free membership makes little difference they still wont go, for those of us that love our good salads and whom look after ourselves we are the ones that will suffer without complaint whereas the people complaining are more than likely also filling their trolleys up with chips and coke.

remove a luxury item... GST price increase annulled and body better for it :grin:

[teamfatboy]

As usual with the media, this is a dramatic oversimplification.....

Even assuming that the obese 'want to change' - and there's evidence that this is far from the norm, or that the State would have an interest in cutting down obesity-related health charges, it's not just about the money.

It can be time (getting everything lined up to make it to a class, including public transport, child care, etc); it can be fear (this is gonna hurt, what if I look stupid, I don't know what to do), or it can be inconvenience (it's all the way over the other side of town, etc). Yes, these are all just excuses, but.

The same's true of GST-free vegies - with the loss of simple domestic training in schools (do they really not teach basic life skills any more?), people have the same fear of self-prepared food (what do I do with celery? What if I don't like what I've cooked)... I'm far from convinced that removing the GST from key basic fresh ingredients would have any direct impact on obesity-related illness.

[Gym rat]

It is going hurt the average family who is on a tight budget or the average person who is on tight as well plus it is going suck paying more for what ever the item may be ie food etc.Me being a labour supporter I have been thinking dam you National for increasing the GST :x

[Chillicat]

what do I do with celery?

Chuck it in the bin - vile stuff :pfft:

[Ronin]

what do I do with celery?

Chuck it in the bin - vile stuff :pfft:

Finally, someone else with some good taste :grin:

[severe]

It would be great, but it would only work if you made attandence compulsory and it determined your eligibility for payments.

But, the gyms are geared towards people who don't work imo (wow, conspiracy theory anyone?). atleast where I am. All the classes are spread between 7am-2pm. Ok, so maybe they also target 9-5 workers, so the 7am programs are sweet for them. The childcare while working out is only till 3pm. wtf, we work till 5, and if we want to workout after that, we can't go together.

ok, maybe that isn't related.

on task: people would complain that it is their right to choose if they want obesity. I am on a break from work now, and the amount of obese people shopping, who don't seem to work is astounding. Maybe they do night shift?

There seems to be enough money for food in their homes. And the gym membership would distract them from their eating. Maybe it is a great idea, but it would be another cost to the taxpayer, that wouldn't be used.

National, you won't survive the next election... BS artists.

Teamfatboy: You have it right there. People have lost the art of cooking. I can't believe it when people can't cook at 25! wtf was happenign at that home growing up? Here, it's everyone on deck, for both my 15 and 6 year olds. I don't want them at home when they are 30, so they are getting taught it all now. What was once an essential life skill is now only an option in life. sad.

[kaypee]

I see her point.

Doing something like "taking GST off fresh fruit and veges" is just Labour's way of trying to cash in on the backlash that National is getting for the GST increase.

It is also incredibly half-assed.

NZ's obese population has been floating around the media for ages and no one wants to do anything about it. Given a choice between sitting and watching tv all day (or whatever else) and going for a run, a majority of the population is going to opt for sitting around.

Taking GST off fruit and veges isn't going to do shit simply because the people the government are trying to target are already too lazy to help.

Cook? Why?

Just go down the road and get some KFC/Maccas/etc etc

So much simpler

Tastes better (ew) and it will to them because they wouldn't be able to cook to save their lives.

Besides, a free membership would achieve nothing but make me incredibly jealous.

:shifty:

[VampireChick]

Besides, a free membership would achieve nothing but make me incredibly jealous.

:shifty:

Me too!

But seriously, as much as I'd love for a reduction in price for veges and fruit, it will not fix the heart of our obesity problem.

I'd rather the money spent on nutritional specialists being sent out into the community, low-socio economic areas, cultural centres, churches, Marae and educate the heck out of people. Believe me, when I go visit my rellies out in the wops, it astounds me how little they know about nutrition and exercise. They're simply not taught at an early age but it's never too late to start.

Our current health campaigns are average at best, the whole 5+ a day or 30m of exercise (cleaning!??) is not enough. I'm not a fan of fear-inducing campaigns (similar to anti-smoking), but perhaps people need to be confronted with graphic realities of what could happen due to obesity.

[teamfatboy]

I'd rather the money spent on nutritional specialists being sent out into the community, low-socio economic areas, cultural centres, churches, Marae and educate the heck out of people.

Absolutely Co-Signed :clap:

I find it ironic that people have wierd perceptions of bodybuilders, and yet the nutrition and diet advice I've learned in this sport should be mandatory! Give it an NCEA and make it an essential life skill, for crying out loud.

Gym memberships ? Whatever happened to green prescriptions...

[BarBrother]

I'd rather the money spent on nutritional specialists being sent out into the community, low-socio economic areas, cultural centres, churches, Marae and educate the heck out of people. Believe me, when I go visit my rellies out in the wops, it astounds me how little they know about nutrition and exercise. They're simply not taught at an early age but it's never too late to start.

.

this is already being done currently. Prob not to the optimal levels but it is being done. From my experience ignorance is not a legit excuse anymore. Peopl eknow what is good a bad food in a general sesne but for whatever reason decide to ignore the logic

[soundsgood]

Weight training or doing cardio without decent nutrition plan is pointless. We should definately be trying to educate the public about eating properly and subsidize good staple foods before giving away gym memberships.

[killerbee]

there is no solution for people who don't give a crap.

[Specter]

Besides, a free membership would achieve nothing but make me incredibly jealous.

:shifty:

Me too!

But seriously, as much as I'd love for a reduction in price for veges and fruit, it will not fix the heart of our obesity problem.

I'd rather the money spent on nutritional specialists being sent out into the community, low-socio economic areas, cultural centres, churches, Marae and educate the heck out of people. Believe me, when I go visit my rellies out in the wops, it astounds me how little they know about nutrition and exercise. They're simply not taught at an early age but it's never too late to start.

I would rather the money didnt get spent on nutritional specialists being sent out in the field. Especially Churches and Maraes.

Our current health campaigns are average at best, the whole 5+ a day or 30m of exercise (cleaning!??) is not enough. I'm not a fan of fear-inducing campaigns (similar to anti-smoking), but perhaps people need to be confronted with graphic realities of what could happen due to obesity.

It simply comes down to this, nothing will fix the heart of the obesity problem here in NZ. It will just be used as a political agenda/campaign to get the voters in.

[Optimass]

i don't think an outright membership will work - but a subsidy is a better way to go. I know this works first hand .... and only genuin interested people apply.

An ex collogue of mine ran a promotion through a telemarketing company but linked it to an "independant" website where the prospective members would "qualify" for a $5 weekly subsidy from their "independant" community trust. They signed up 800 members in 3 weeks :grin: .

Not entirely ethical but the percieved savings was a very good carrot to get the punters joining up.

Its a bit frustrating owning a gym and trying to compete with council owned gyms as they receive funding allocations every year (which are often mismanaged). If the government openned up subsidised gym memberships this would almost certainly be well recieved. I think it would be beneficial for the existing trained population as the standards would need to meet minimum criteria. (no more bent bars, shit chinese import equipment or fuckwit operators that try and get 3 damn years out of a lifefiness treadmill strap... for godssake when the belt is shiny its over-time to replace it ... rant ... rant ... rant :x ).

Its great being on the other side for a change :pfft:

[kaypee]

i don't think an outright membership will work - but a subsidy is a better way to go. I know this works first hand .... and only genuin interested people apply.

to be honest, the same interested people would be the ones that would actually utilise the free membership anyway.. perhaps even less would take advantage as they may feel that they can't afford to even fork out for a subsidised membership so that won't have solved anything.

VampireChick is right on the money. It starts with education. The problem with this being it generally takes more than 1 generation to see results, and no government/party is willing to invest the money and time into something they may never see the end of.

May is the wrong word.. "Will" never see the end of :shifty:

Alternatively, tax the hell out of fast-foods.

If you can tax cigarettes and alcohol to the degree that you do, why not broaden the sphere to include foods that aren't good for you/contain more than excessive amounts of fat, sugar and salt

:nod:

[Optimass]

i don't think an outright membership will work - but a subsidy is a better way to go. I know this works first hand .... and only genuin interested people apply.

to be honest, the same interested people would be the ones that would actually utilise the free membership anyway.. perhaps even less would take advantage as they may feel that they can't afford to even fork out for a subsidised membership so that won't have solved anything.

So you are saying even if you have a 10% up take in NZ that won't have a tangible impact long term on the economy? 350,000 people. And experience has proven that when a person makes a minimum investment they have a percieved value associated with the membership which makes it easier for them to use it. Believe me, the people who habitually just take advantage of free memberships are very different to those that have the discresionary spend but choose not to ... but may if the right incentive is put in place.

Perhaps a better way is to allow those that have a gym membership be able to claim it back as a tax rebate =) ...

[Grover]

Perhaps a better way is to allow those that have a gym membership be able to claim it back as a tax rebate =) ...

The idea is good Opti but in reality thats all it will become, a tax dodge.

Memberships will be taken out just for the rebate, won't necessarily get them in the gym.

Great for gym owners though!

There is really no answer to this, I tried with my staff, paid their gym memberships, they went for a while then slowly drifteed off.

have 1 out of 10 that still goes regularly, still pay his membership, rest not any more.

[Chillicat]

I'd rather the money spent on nutritional specialists being sent out into the community, low-socio economic areas, cultural centres, churches, Marae and educate the heck out of people. Believe me, when I go visit my rellies out in the wops, it astounds me how little they know about nutrition and exercise. They're simply not taught at an early age but it's never too late to start.

Our current health campaigns are average at best, the whole 5+ a day or 30m of exercise (cleaning!??) is not enough. I'm not a fan of fear-inducing campaigns (similar to anti-smoking), but perhaps people need to be confronted with graphic realities of what could happen due to obesity.

It's a tough one. Much as I advocate education to solve many of society's problems, I'm not convinced it will work. I'm thinking of a couple of people in particular as I type this, who are people who it seems you can educate til you're blue in the face but they just don't want to know. If it's not a quick fix they won't do it, and it seems to me that we need some more hard core health campaigns.

To be honest, for some people you need the fear inducing ones. Weak-assed anti-smoking campaigns never worked on me, but the more graphic ones did. A bunch of 'role models' telling me smoking isn't cool wouldn't make me bat an eyelid, but showing me the effects did.

People like my mother who it's too late for, need something more hardcore to really show them what their overeating is doing to them. For example, they need to know more about the link between obesity and cancer and what that actually means - what chemo really means and involves, what living with a terminal diagnosis means.

[Pseudonym]

It seems to me that this problem is a whole lot trickier than the anti-smoking campaign.

There are two objectives that need to be achieved here - 1) education, and 2) persuasion. We need to do both, or the whole thing fails.

Without educating "the masses" on how to live a healthy lifestyle, and how to cook healthy food, it doesn't matter how many graphically-shocking ads you show people, they won't know how to take action.

Likewise, you can show people how to cook, but unless you convince them of the benefits they could enjoy as a result, they'll never do anything.

I think we need a "Food-in-a-minute" type of segment on a youth channel like C4. Then use a Nigella Lawson type of presenter to make healthy food sexy.

Make the objective of "being healthy/looking good" desirable enough, and people overcome the obstacles. No-one complains about the GST content on cosmetics!

[Chillicat]

Yeah, I completely meant to say that we need both, but somehow that got lost (it's amazing the shit you type when you're feeling sick and your head is all over the place!).

But I agree with pseud - combo of education and campaigns.

[Ronin]

I don't really think any amount of education or persuasion is going to work for the vast majority. Nor will free or subsidised gym memberships, veges or anything else. Well, maybe if they were offered free liposuction :pfft:

As a smoker, I knew what ciggies were doing to me. I knew that "role models" thought it was uncool. I knew that my parents, family, and non-smoking friends would prefer that I gave up. I knew I was setting a bad example for my kids. I knew that at various times I could get free/subsidised gum, patches, drugs etc. I knew that the price of tobacco kept going up because the nanny-state was taxing the bejesus out of it. Did any of that make me want to stop smoking? f*ck no, if anything it made me dig my toes in and become more determined not to quit. I even started growing my own tobacco to save money.

Likewise, I knew that eating crap and not exercising was bad for me. Hell I could even see the effects more immediately than those of smoking. My clothes didn't fit anymore, I was getting fatter almost by the day, climbing 1 flight of stairs was enough to leave me gasping, ...you get the idea We used to make fun of all the little gym rats running around in their lycra and leg-warmers, the joggers, the health-food nuts. It's not like I was unaware of healthier alternatives, I was just too fucking lazy and set in my ways to change. Would cheaper veges have made me change? Hell no. If offered a free/subsidised gym membership, would I have taken it? More than likely. I even bought a membership a couple of times in the "dark ages"...I think my record was something like 3 weeks before I stopped going. Still had to keep paying for it though.

So what made me quit smoking, ditch the junk food, and get serious about training? I did. It wasn't until I woke up one day (metaphorically) and decided that I was sick of living the life that I'd brought upon myself. There was no-one else to blame for the way I was, I'd allowed this to happen to myself. And I had to turn myself around. So that's what I did.

And that's the decision that needs to be made within each obese, chain-smoking heart-attack-waiting-to-happen that's slothing their way around our nation. The problem is that for most, that decision will never be made because it's too damned hard. It's always easier to blame someone else. There's too much stress at work so they can't quit smoking. They don't have time to cook decent food. Their parther does the meals and cant cook. Their kids wont eat anything other than Maccas. The govt wont take tax off healthy food. Its easier to pick up KFC at the drive-thru than to cook. Their parents made them obese as children and now it's too late (actually that's one that I do have a little sympathy for, as a parent I cannot understand how people can do this to their kids). As a race, humans seem to have forgotten how to take responsibility for their own actions and choices.

And until this personal responsibility makes a comeback, nothing's gonna change. Personally I'm all for gst being removed from "raw" foods. I believe the UK has removed VAT (their version of GST) from all unprocessed foods...meat, fruit & veg, milk etc. I don't think it will make a huge difference in swaying the masses away from deep-fried shit, but it'll save me a fair chunk of change each week. Subsidise my gym membership? Hell yeah, sign me up. Just don't expect a lot of fatties to get of the couch and waddle their way in.

As for the idea of taxing junk food...can you say "nanny-state"? It hasn't worked for alcohol and tobacco. I still text while I'm driving (and there's actually studies that show that banning it overseas has led to more accidents due to people putting more effort into hiding what they're doing). How many people have actually stopped smacking their kids? And where do you draw the line? A tax on every hour that your TV is turned on? An internet tax cos you're sitting on your arse instead of "pushing play"? Or maybe just a tax on anything the government of the day finds undesirable (actually, bring on the mullet tax ).

Ok, so I kinda got a bit ranty there, but my point is that external influences, whether in the form of inducement, coersion, positive/negative reinforcement, "education" or whatever, will not work as long as the people it's aimed at are too damned lazy to take responsibility for their own actions. All we can really do is be ready to help those that actually take the first step. Although maybe we should stop providing free health-care for self-inflicted harm...

[tomsammce]

Ronin = Phil Goff... LOL jokes bro.