What's in a name? A lot.

[spot-on]

this was the real name for a very long time NZFBB but now the Moe owns it he has change it to NZIFBB and with this you can get a IFBB PRO card if you are in his good books

I think it's this kind of talk that adds to the confusion. I'm not sure you can actually own a public society. This is why the federation has a constitution and elected board. Moe used to own NZFBB ltd (a company) that ran events on behalf of the NZFBB public society here in NZ. What has happened is he then changed the name of the limited liability company, but the society has stayed pretty much intact as it is the recognised arm of the IFBB in NZ since 1977. (You can understand why the IFBB have been reluctant to get involved as such with this much mana and history at stake).

The two name changes below:

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 03-JUN-2009

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZFBB LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 13-JUL-2007

The incorporated society below; (still active and unchanged since 1977)

Number 224488 View Certificate Of Incorporation

Name NEW ZEALAND FEDERATION OF BODY BUILDERS' ASSOCIATION INCORPORATED

EMAIL CERTIFICATE

Incorporated 16-NOV-1977

Organisation Type Incorporated Society

So now if you look he has change it to NZIFBB ( N Z I F B B ) as you will see he has put a ( I ) in it so is it nzfbb or nzifbb and the new web site is now http://www.nzifbb.co.nz with the (I) in it and it is not run as a Incorporated Society

[nate225]

this was the real name for a very long time NZFBB but now the Moe owns it he has change it to NZIFBB and with this you can get a IFBB PRO card if you are in his good books

I think it's this kind of talk that adds to the confusion. I'm not sure you can actually own a public society. This is why the federation has a constitution and elected board. Moe used to own NZFBB ltd (a company) that ran events on behalf of the NZFBB public society here in NZ. What has happened is he then changed the name of the limited liability company, but the society has stayed pretty much intact as it is the recognised arm of the IFBB in NZ since 1977. (You can understand why the IFBB have been reluctant to get involved as such with this much mana and history at stake).

The two name changes below:

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 03-JUN-2009

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZFBB LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 13-JUL-2007

The incorporated society below; (still active and unchanged since 1977)

Number 224488 View Certificate Of Incorporation

Name NEW ZEALAND FEDERATION OF BODY BUILDERS' ASSOCIATION INCORPORATED

EMAIL CERTIFICATE

Incorporated 16-NOV-1977

Organisation Type Incorporated Society

So now if you look he has change it to NZIFBB ( N Z I F B B ) as you will see he has put a ( I ) in it so is it nzfbb or nzifbb and the new web site is now http://www.nzifbb.co.nz with the (I) in it and it is not run as a Incorporated Society

If this is the case, and I'm still as confused as ever, it would explain the lack of Committee input of late. Not needed if it's now a private enterprise.

Would be good if someone on the Exec (if it exists still) could confirm either way?

[michaelk]

Now you being silly Michealk. NABBA/WFF stays! WFF Stands for World Fitness Federation.

Best you help out IFBB...they need it.

your right, because clearly the whole nabbanacwff is sailing smoothly?

You're clearly onto a winner :clap:

What is silly about a) not knowing what wff is and why you have two names.

and suggesting (as you have to the other NABBA they should use NAC) that you use WFF. Is that not asking the same thing?

If they are not willing to change, why would you not run your own race and distance yourself.

In this "debate" i'm one of the very few without any vested interest, if you were to be asked these questions by someone who has no affilliation to any federation, would you suggest they go help IFBB?

[nate225]

Now you being silly Michealk. NABBA/WFF stays! WFF Stands for World Fitness Federation.

Best you help out IFBB...they need it.

your right, because clearly the whole nabbanacwff is sailing smoothly?

You're clearly onto a winner :clap:

What is silly about a) not knowing what wff is and why you have two names.

and suggesting (as you have to the other NABBA they should use NAC) that you use WFF. Is that not asking the same thing?

If they are not willing to change, why would you not run your own race and distance yourself.

In this "debate" i'm one of the very few without any vested interest, if you were to be asked these questions by someone who has no affilliation to any federation, would you suggest they go help IFBB?

Like you Mike I also have no vested interest having competed in both the original NABBA (pre 2001 split) and NZFBB (pre name changes & Australian/NZL domestics).

What I think Aln's point is, is that NABBA-WFF sees itself as aligned to the original NABBA International body, therefore they should retain rights to NABBA name in this country. It is my understanding that Jim Pitt's NABBA NZ is seen to be aligned to NAC & a pseudo NABBA International organisation (hence all the BS a few years back when athletes in this org had no international competitions to attend).

One would think a unified NZFBB would've taken the majority of NZL memberships. In the meantime however the old guard's uprising failed to overthrow Moe's leadership and created some messy politics. Then the IFBB South Pacific/Oceania splinter group appeared (with Paul Grahams support from Aussie). Recently the NZFBB have rebranded as NZIFBB to further confuse things!

What a mess.....

[aln]

Thanks Nate, Michealk bites well.

[nate225]

Thanks Nate, Michealk bites well.

Funny lot you BBers! :grin:

[tomsammce]

Now you being silly Michealk. NABBA/WFF stays! WFF Stands for World Fitness Federation.

Best you help out IFBB...they need it.

your right, because clearly the whole nabbanacwff is sailing smoothly?

You're clearly onto a winner :clap:

What is silly about a) not knowing what wff is and why you have two names.

and suggesting (as you have to the other NABBA they should use NAC) that you use WFF. Is that not asking the same thing?

If they are not willing to change, why would you not run your own race and distance yourself.

In this "debate" i'm one of the very few without any vested interest, if you were to be asked these questions by someone who has no affilliation to any federation, would you suggest they go help IFBB?

Good post. Also a Nate it looks like everyone will have to do ALOT of research lol not just new people.

[michaelk]

I've always understood aln's attitude towards the naming rights, I just found that his original statement about confusing competitors who'd attend the Universe either a smokescreen or worst case, he actually thinks his WFF competitors are so naive/stupid or carb depleted to not know the difference.

Fortunately I do know a competitor who has been invited to the NAC universe, and I didn't need to get out an atlas and point out germany so he didn't end up in Heathrow by accident.

I then thought it funny that he suggested NABBA/(NAC) change their name - but didn't consider that NABBA/WFF change theirs? Still don't understand why not- or why have the WFF part of the name in the first place?

I don't bite, I don't need to - I'm IFBB Pro League and last time I checked it had a strong pulse in the mens division \:D/

[aln]

It's NABBA/WFF same as in Australia...you cant be as up with the play as you think.

[musclenz]

I've always understood aln's attitude towards the naming rights, I just found that his original statement about confusing competitors who'd attend the Universe either a smokescreen or worst case, he actually thinks his WFF competitors are so naive/stupid or carb depleted to not know the difference.

Fortunately I do know a competitor who has been invited to the NAC universe, and I didn't need to get out an atlas and point out germany so he didn't end up in Heathrow by accident.

I then thought it funny that he suggested NABBA/(NAC) change their name - but didn't consider that NABBA/WFF change theirs? Still don't understand why not- or why have the WFF part of the name in the first place?

I don't bite, I don't need to - I'm IFBB Pro League and last time I checked it had a strong pulse in the mens division \:D/

In Australia & New Zealand National Amateur Bodybuilding Association (NABBA) & the World Fitness Federation (WFF) run combined competitions under the NABBA/WFF banner. The NABBA aspect of the federation is the ONLY federation in Australia & New Zealand that is legally & constitutionally affiliated with NABBA International who organise & run the NABBA International Universe & World Competitions each year.

NABBA /NAC NZ has NO ACCESS for competitors out of their local competitions to these events & cannot associate itself by name with them. THeir name is only legally recognised as a association in NZ. Be careful with Aln as he is an IFBB Pro like yourself & knows his stuff when it comes to BBing politics in either IFBB or NABBA :grin:

[michaelk]

Finally someone who reads the question and answers it, I didn't know why the WFF and now it has been CLEARLY explained.

Hey Aln, never said I was up with any play in anything NABBA related, that's why I asked. Took Rod to actually answer though.

Be careful with Aln as he is an IFBB Pro like yourself & knows his stuff when it comes to BBing politics in either IFBB or NABBA :grin:

I always knew who Aln is, I saw his brother win the Nationals in 1991 at Aotea Centre, wiping the floor with everyone there.

[hawks]

It's NABBA/WFF same as in Australia...you cant be as up with the play as you think.

Obviously not up with the play , a reasonable amount of common sense is not a pre requisite to be of Ifbb pro league status.to even suggest that Nabba wff should change there name is a bizarre statement been the original Nabba federation one would think they have legal entitlement to this name and Nabba nac does not .pretty simple really.

[michaelk]

I'd love to know where I've ever claimed to be up with the play in NABBA/WFF/NAC politics?

Seems Rod is the only one on the WFF side that has the clarity to answer the questions asked. From the outside looking in, when WFF ask NAC to change their name, I thought it made equal sence that WFF change theirs instead. I bet some of the NAC affiliates agree too.

I was not aware that WFF and NABBA in Aus were allied yet seperate feds until Rod actually said so, I'm probably not the only one.

I still think that it will likely require a legal ruling, but that NAC NABBA was the first to operate in this country they probably have the rights on the name if they have registered it - IN NZ, regardless of who they have internationally affilliated to. The political comings and goings of the international bodybuilding scene may not have a lot of sway in our court system.

But then, I'm not a lawyer.

Maybe not common sense, but I'm just a lay person in this discussion trying to understand.

Very interesting that Rod was the only one to recognize that fact, is that a lack of "common sence" amongst the other WFFers who got their back up in defense of their organization rather than their book out to explain.

Don't assume that because I'm an IFBB pro I know anthing, or should know anything of NABBA politics.

[musclenz]

I'd love to know where I've ever claimed to be up with the play in NABBA/WFF/NAC politics?

Seems Rod is the only one on the WFF side that has the clarity to answer the questions asked. From the outside looking in, when WFF ask NAC to change their name, I thought it made equal sence that WFF change theirs instead. I bet some of the NAC affiliates agree too.

I was not aware that WFF and NABBA in Aus were allied yet seperate feds until Rod actually said so, I'm probably not the only one.

I still think that it will likely require a legal ruling, but that NAC NABBA was the first to operate in this country they probably have the rights on the name if they have registered it - IN NZ, regardless of who they have internationally affilliated to. The political comings and goings of the international bodybuilding scene may not have a lot of sway in our court system.

But then, I'm not a lawyer.

Maybe not common sense, but I'm just a lay person in this discussion trying to understand.

Very interesting that Rod was the only one to recognize that fact, is that a lack of "common sence" amongst the other WFFers who got their back up in defense of their organization rather than their book out to explain.

Don't assume that because I'm an IFBB pro I know anthing, or should know anything of NABBA politics.

Please understand that we are all passionate about Bodybuilding in NZ. We are a small country & our sport is somewhat under attack by people in different quarters that do not have the integrity & committment to put athletes first before politics & personal gain & power. This is not how we operate in NABBA/WFF & so there is some resentment towards those that dare to question our motives & objectives.

Michael, I'm sorry that your question has not been given a response that you deserved. I hope I have been able to clarify our position in NZ & where we stand. This can also be seen from the correspondance I have published on this thread. Good luck in your Professional endevours.

[Dr Squat]

I know it probably sounds crazy but why don't we get back to bodybuilding competitions where the biggest and most freaky guys and girls get on stage and compete? No politics and the biggest, hardest and most freaky athlete gets the trophy.

I thought that was what bodybuilding was meant to be about? Of course I could have it wrong. Even so, worth thinking about? Problem is it would only work if we had a united federation. Now that is crazy.

[musclenz]

I know it probably sounds crazy but why don't we get back to bodybuilding competitions where the biggest and most freaky guys and girls get on stage and compete? No politics and the biggest, hardest and most freaky athlete gets the trophy.

I thought that was what bodybuilding was meant to be about? Of course I could have it wrong. Even so, worth thinking about? Problem is it would only work if we had a united federation. Now that is crazy.

Believe me M8, we have tried to unite with NABBA NZ on many occasion. Certainly the logistics of uniting with IFBB & its various NZ connections, is realistically a political no go. But this should not stop us as Kiwis working together in a common goal to give more profile & integrity to the sport of BBing & Fitness in our country.

[SportsGuru]

Wow its back to the political game of chess we play in this sport!

for those of you who love to compete, I pose a question? What, above all else, would you consider to be the fundamental component of a SHOW that is either missing or available from BBevents held in ??

For those that love politics! What do you believe the best case scenario for NZ BBers would be, and how do you propose we as a community make steps to make it available?

there are a lot of opinions on this forum and not a lot of sugestions as to how to go about moving forward,

lets start that ball rolling please

good luck to all those Competing

[agent86]

Maybe it's a good thing having so many federations. each one now seems to be offering something different. Competitor numbers at all shows are high this year.

Many competitors are doing multiple federations as they are in shape and want to make the most of it.

For those International competitors there are more ways to compete internationally and each one has a high standard at that level now.

It could be that competition will make each federation work to get competitors to their shows.

I know it is confusing that we have a Nabba and a Nabba/WFF but all International competitors know that NAC have a Universe which is different to the Nabba Universe. It is a little misleading saying qualify for the Universe from Nabba but it is the Universe nonetheless just for NAC.

We try to avoid monopolies in business for because of the negative effect on service and costs so why would we want one federation in Bodybuilding?

Just a positive spin on a negative theme.

[weener lad]

For those that love politics! What do you believe the best case scenario for NZ BBers would be, and how do you propose we as a community make steps to make it available?

there are a lot of opinions on this forum and not a lot of sugestions as to how to go about moving forward,

lets start that ball rolling please

Think you will find it has been said many times but most people give up on repeating them selves. I will :doh:

One of each fed IFBB, NABBA/WFF, NBA! The feds have one meeting at the start of each year with event proposal dates and work together to make sure shows don't clash to allow max profit for all.

THEN GET RID OF THE EGOS! This is a sport for the athletes and some head honchos have forgotten this.

NZ is a small country with a limited number of athletes so having ALL these shows, alot of which conflict with each other is bad for the sport. Hence so many poor turn outs in regional shows over the last couple years. IF the feds work together they will maximize their turn outs and therefore profits. More profit equals more athletes getting sponsorship to go compete abroad.

[Optimass]

this was the real name for a very long time NZFBB but now the Moe owns it he has change it to NZIFBB and with this you can get a IFBB PRO card if you are in his good books

I think it's this kind of talk that adds to the confusion. I'm not sure you can actually own a public society. This is why the federation has a constitution and elected board. Moe used to own NZFBB ltd (a company) that ran events on behalf of the NZFBB public society here in NZ. What has happened is he then changed the name of the limited liability company, but the society has stayed pretty much intact as it is the recognised arm of the IFBB in NZ since 1977. (You can understand why the IFBB have been reluctant to get involved as such with this much mana and history at stake).

The two name changes below:

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 03-JUN-2009

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZFBB LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 13-JUL-2007

The incorporated society below; (still active and unchanged since 1977)

Number 224488 View Certificate Of Incorporation

Name NEW ZEALAND FEDERATION OF BODY BUILDERS' ASSOCIATION INCORPORATED

EMAIL CERTIFICATE

Incorporated 16-NOV-1977

Organisation Type Incorporated Society

So now if you look he has change it to NZIFBB ( N Z I F B B ) as you will see he has put a ( I ) in it so is it nzfbb or nzifbb and the new web site is now http://www.nzifbb.co.nz with the (I) in it and it is not run as a Incorporated Society

Do athletes competing in these shows relise this? Seems to be a misrepresentation as you are not competiting for the federation then in this case.

[nate225]

I think it's this kind of talk that adds to the confusion. I'm not sure you can actually own a public society. This is why the federation has a constitution and elected board. Moe used to own NZFBB ltd (a company) that ran events on behalf of the NZFBB public society here in NZ. What has happened is he then changed the name of the limited liability company, but the society has stayed pretty much intact as it is the recognised arm of the IFBB in NZ since 1977. (You can understand why the IFBB have been reluctant to get involved as such with this much mana and history at stake).

The two name changes below:

The incorporated society below; (still active and unchanged since 1977)

So now if you look he has change it to NZIFBB ( N Z I F B B ) as you will see he has put a ( I ) in it so is it nzfbb or nzifbb and the new web site is now http://www.nzifbb.co.nz with the (I) in it and it is not run as a Incorporated Society

Do athletes competing in these shows relise this? Seems to be a misrepresentation as you are not competiting for the federation then in this case.

It's all a bit murky on the Companies website - I can't make heads or tails of it all?

The "NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED" (which was the limited liability company NZFBB Limited) seems to have been owned previously by "El Moussaoui Hussein" and now by "Moe Moses". Has Moe changed his name, or are there other directors?

I couldn't find an incorporated society relating to NZFBB? I see http://www.nzfbb.co.nz & http://www.nzfbb.org don't exist, and http://www.nzfbb.org.nz links to the http://www.nzifbb.co.nz

Does the incorporated society still exist at all?

[musclenz]

So now if you look he has change it to NZIFBB ( N Z I F B B ) as you will see he has put a ( I ) in it so is it nzfbb or nzifbb and the new web site is now http://www.nzifbb.co.nz with the (I) in it and it is not run as a Incorporated Society

Do athletes competing in these shows relise this? Seems to be a misrepresentation as you are not competiting for the federation then in this case.

It's all a bit murky on the Companies website - I can't make heads or tails of it all?

The "NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED" (which was the limited liability company NZFBB Limited) seems to have been owned previously by "El Moussaoui Hussein" and now by "Moe Moses". Has Moe changed his name, or are there other directors?

I couldn't find an incorporated society relating to NZFBB? I see http://www.nzfbb.co.nz & http://www.nzfbb.org don't exist, and http://www.nzfbb.org.nz links to the http://www.nzifbb.co.nz

Does the incorporated society still exist at all?

I think he can now part the Red Sea :pfft:

[Optimass]

It's all a bit murky on the Companies website - I can't make heads or tails of it all?

The "NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED" (which was the limited liability company NZFBB Limited) seems to have been owned previously by "El Moussaoui Hussein" and now by "Moe Moses". Has Moe changed his name, or are there other directors?

I couldn't find an incorporated society relating to NZFBB? I see http://www.nzfbb.co.nz & http://www.nzfbb.org don't exist, and http://www.nzfbb.org.nz links to the http://www.nzifbb.co.nz

Does the incorporated society still exist at all?

I think Moses is his wifes maiden name. The I.S still exists yes - it has to other wie the constitution he was "voted" in on would not be valid and therefore subject to being challenged.

I think he can now part the Red Sea :pfft: