What's in a name? A lot.

[musclenz]

[MOD EDIT: Topic split from NABBA NZ National Championships - Universe Qualifier]

Given your are still running under the NABBA name in NZ, any reference to a Universe Qualifier blatantly suggests that athletes will qualify from this event into the NABBA Universe on 30th October in Southport England. As you are well aware your federation has no affiliation with NABBA International. NABBA/WFF is the only federation in New Zealand that is a paid up & recognised affiliate of NABBA International.

It would seem timely that now you have aligned your international competition with National Athletic Committee International based in Germany & advertise this on your website, that your trading name in NZ be changed to reflect this affiliation & to further avoid any confusion in these matters as you have no longer any legal right to use the NABBA International name or reference in NZ.

However on examination of the countries affiliated with NAC International (Argentina, Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Greece, Hungary, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxemburg, Marocco, Moldava, Netherlands, Pakistan, Philippines, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Turkey, Ukraine, United Kingdom, USA) I do not see any reference to New Zealand. Perhaps you are still finalising this.

[jimjim83]

The boys have spoken. :grin:

[NZresident1]

New Zealand rights to the use of NABBA in NZ is trade a trade mark of NABBA NZ.

As to the advertised use of Universe it clearly shows NABBA NZ showing NAC Universe on the website.

As to the Countries listed is you go to National Federations it clearly shows New Zealand is registered.

As to WFF go to this webiste and read the real story in full. http://www.wff.lt/page.php?lang=en&idd=nau&id=154

The use of names is not being disputed by the current organisations they are getting on witht he local shows and offering options for overseas events.

NABBA?WFF? in NZ need to do the same the websites that are reffered to here were around long before your events were invented.

No dispute to NABBA universe and worlds good luck to any NZ athlete competing there.

Good luck also to any athletes who compete in other organisations thoughout the world it is all positive for NZ.

Get on with your shows and leave the politics to the politicians.

[musclenz]

New Zealand rights to the use of NABBA in NZ is trade a trade mark of NABBA NZ.

As to the advertised use of Universe it clearly shows NABBA NZ showing NAC Universe on the website.

As to the Countries listed is you go to National Federations it clearly shows New Zealand is registered.

As to WFF go to this webiste and read the real story in full. http://www.wff.lt/page.php?lang=en&idd=nau&id=154

The use of names is not being disputed by the current organisations they are getting on witht he local shows and offering options for overseas events.

NABBA?WFF? in NZ need to do the same the websites that are reffered to here were around long before your events were invented.

No dispute to NABBA universe and worlds good luck to any NZ athlete competing there.

Good luck also to any athletes who compete in other organisations thoughout the world it is all positive for NZ.

Get on with your shows and leave the politics to the politicians.

As a new federation or a "returning" federation in NZ we have had no desire to get into the politics of legal jurisdiction & naming rights on an open forum. You will not be aware of what has transpired behind the scenes & I'm not going to go into any of this on here. My point, NZresident1, is that by associating an international event like the "Universe" with your name, NABBA NZ, implies, in my book, that you are qualifying athletes out of your National show into the NABBA International Universe. If you were called NAC NZ then I would have no problem with the way you have specified this on this thread or any other references you make on your website, but until you either clarify this on this event thread or change your name accordingly, then you are out of order. I don't see what your reference to WFF has to do with this discussion.

[NZresident1]

As a new federation or a "returning" federation in NZ we have had no desire to get into the politics of legal jurisdiction & naming rights on an open forum. You will not be aware of what has transpired behind the scenes & I'm not going to go into any of this on here. My point, NZresident1, is that by associating an international event like the "Universe" with your name, NABBA NZ, implies, in my book, that you are qualifying athletes out of your National show into the NABBA International Universe. If you were called NAC NZ then I would have no problem with the way you have specified this on this thread or any other references you make on your website, but until you either clarify this on this event thread or change your name accordingly, then you are out of order. I don't see what your reference to WFF has to do with this discussion.

Nope as it stands you are a new federation not a returning one who has rights to go into universe and world shows at the discretion of the said events I have pointed out that there are other events named just the same and have been clearly identified on there webiste yes there website it is not my website nor am I a member of NABBA NZ.

I have clearly shown to all in a public forum that there are two sides to this and that the use of NABBA in NZ is already taken as a trade Mark name.

WFF has also gone through this carry on and it was prudent and correct not out of order as you say to show all who read this forum that the original NZ representative both for NABBA NZ and WFF is the same person.

Any alteration or adjustment to so called show rights at an Interantional level has no bearing on ownership of a trade name in NZ.

As I have said before you have rights to send athletes to universe and world shows this is your only ownership right as to NZ no my friend this is already a taken name and it seems it would appear that the NABBA NZ rep also has original rights to WFF name use as well.Nuff said

[aln]

Why don't they just call themselves NAC NZ, save the confusion?

[Ann]

As to the advertised use of Universe it clearly shows NABBA NZ showing NAC Universe on the website.

Perhaps they should clearly show that in their subject title on this forum.

As to the Countries listed is you go to National Federations it clearly shows New Zealand is registered.

Listed as NZ yes. A wee bit confused here - but I am sure you can clear this up NZResident. A Nabba NZ Federation registered with a WABBA/WFF Fed? This is a first of its kind in the history of bodybuilding. Im sure ANB Australia could not register their name with INBA International - or did I miss something?

As to WFF go to this webiste and read the real story in full. http://www.wff.lt/page.php?lang=en&idd=nau&id=154

Having read the story - there are some serious flaws in it.

The use of names is not being disputed by the current organisations they are getting on witht he local shows and offering options for overseas events.

If there is no dispute over naming rights - then why do they not change their name to NAC? Afterall, they are not part of the original Nabba Federation.

NABBA?WFF? in NZ need to do the same the websites that are reffered to here were around long before your events were invented.

Oh my, you certainly do need a history lesson don't you. By the looks of things - also a spelling lesson as well!

Get on with your shows and leave the politics to the politicians.

Interesting you say this, considering that you have been chomping at the bit to take a chunk out of this federation from the very beginning - yet not a single word is heard from you in relation to any other! Why is that?

[tomsammce]

:roll: ..... that is all.

[musclenz]

Further to our above comments on naming issues in NZ between NABBA/WFF NZ & NABBA NZ, I post the following correspondance that we have had no replies to. I do this in an attempt to further clarify to athletes around NZ our position & our links we have established with the real NABBA International. Yes this is political but we believe people involved in the sport in NZ need to be aware of what is happening within the politics of the sport to be able to make an informed decission of who to support in the future.

Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 2:41 PM

Subject: NABBA NZ National Championships

Dear Maeve,

On NZBB.co.nz your event thread for your Nationals lists it as a Universe Qualifier. This blatantly suggests that athletes will qualify from this event into the NABBA Universe on 30th October in Southport England. As you are well aware your federation has no affiliation with NABBA International. We are the only federation in New Zealand that is a paid up & recognised affiliate of NABBA International.

I would suggest you immediately retract this form of advertising & take out any reference to this on your website. I am forwarding a copy of this email to NABBA International.

Regards,

Rodney Bailey

Acting President

NABBA/WFF New Zealand

Email Tuesday 7th September from :

Graeme Lancefield

NABBA/WFF Australia President

http://www.nabba.com.au

NABBA International World President

http://www.nabba-international.com

PO Box 63, Ivanhoe VIC 3079

MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA

Mob: +61 408 350 983

Phone: +61 3 9480 5975

Fax: +61 3 9484 9880

Email: graeme@nabba.com.au

Dear XXXXXX

Thank you for your email, yes this is correct however you are the nominated contact on website http://www.nabba.co.nz for XXXXXXX.

As this is a public website I would strongly suggest that you resign and request to have your contact details removed if you do not wish to receive further legal correspondence regarding your position. Please note this is not unsolicited, rather notification that you and your associates are acting inappropriately.

For your information your NABBA NZ International Inc World President JOSE LOPEZ was gaoled here in 1999 on drug charges at which point in time I was democratically elected by all State representatives to take control of the situation and carry on as the Australian President/Promoter, I have held this position and maintained it ever since. Further, I was also democratically elected as the NABBA International World President in England October 2009.

Your groups continued loyalty and connection to LOPEZ after so many years now is open to conjecture, all I can comment is that your so called NABBA NZ has no official Representation nor affiliation with NABBA UK or NABBA International the original organizations that were founded over 60 years ago in England.

Please refer to the attached website address for more details on its History. http://www.nabba-international.com

Your NZ athletes compete in Germany at the NAC Universe not in England the traditional home of the Legendary NABBA Universe.

XXXXXX, I could ramble on all day about this rubbish, unfortunately it is your NZ athlete that is being mislead/misrepresented and ultimately lose out. If you and the other NZ promoters choose to support PITT and ultimately LOPEZ then this is your decision but please do not call yourselves NABBA representatives this is false... I am not harassing you simply informing you of the facts.

Again you are correct, we have never met, you and your renegade group are not associated with NABBA International so you either have authority issues or fail to comprehend the magnitude of your actions.

All future correspondence regarding this legal matter will be directed to our lawyers.

BLAKE DAWSON WALDRON

Level 39

101 Collins St

Melb Vic 3000

Phone + 61 3 9679 3000

Fax 3 9679 3111

Email: info@bdw.com.au

Our Reference

ACHS:JML:BWJF:

03-1297-3373

[michaelk]

None of my business being that I've never competed in NABBA (either version) and with my affilliation to the IFBB,

but

wouldn't an athlete who has been around long enough to reach universe standard, be aware of the differences between the organizations and where the respective Universes are held?

Seems to be like the Rugby League Tri nations (Aus, NZ, UK) and that other one?

[aln]

Michealk most athletes know the difference between NABBA nz who are aligned with NAC international and NABBA/WFF. However, it would be honest and less confusion of NABBA nz if they were call themselves NAC nz.

So how many people know the difference between the two IFBB's in this country??

[spot-on]

so what a the real ones and the fake ones and who knows what the different's is

this was the real name for a very long time NZFBB but now the Moe owns it he has change it to NZIFBB and with this you can get a IFBB PRO card if you are in his good books

and now we have this other one that's run by Mark Stewart under the NPC-IFBB AUS and it's called IFBB Australasian/South Pacific. they have 3 shows this year.

and let's not forget the nabba's

We have NABBA NZ thats run by Jim Pitt and now they are offering there people if they are good or not to go to the NAC international

They have been asked by the real NABBA INTERNATIONAL to change the name to NAC or any other name they would like to use

And last but the best as you competitors will see when you get around to doing one of there shows is the real NABBA and they go under the name here in NZ as NABBA-WFF and as you will see the NABBA side is Physique bodys and the WFF is for the Athletic bodys and there is a lot of then in NZ and there motto is competitors shell be looked after

I hope this will help out as to whats what here in NZ

[michaelk]

So how many people know the difference between the two IFBB's in this country??

They both answer to and are governed by the one parent international body, the IFBB.

I'm not debating the merits of NAC vs NABBA vs IFBB vs NZFBB etc, not defending one or promoting another, just pointing out that those athletes that are at that level didn't come down in the last shower.

[aln]

Michealk, think your missing the point again. It's not about those who should know, like you and a few others, it's more about getting everyone to know which federation they are competing under. NABBA nz are not Under NABBA International, they are under NAC.

As for IFBB, Mark Stewart running it again??? what happened to Phil Hope running the South Pacific IFBB?

[tomsammce]

I agree with Mike K, if they arent good enough to make it to an overseas comp then it doesnt matter about the name, if they are they will already know.

[nate225]

I agree with Mike K, if they arent good enough to make it to an overseas comp then it doesnt matter about the name, if they are they will already know.

Seems a strange logic Tom?

Surely competitors shouldn't have to 'do their time' or spend hours researching the murky history of NZ Bodybuilding Federations to work out who they're competing for & what Internationals they maybe able to qualify for?

My IQ's only in the 140's, maybe I'd better stick to Strongman! :grin:

[agent86]

If you Google Nabba International the first site is one with Jim as secretary General and is still being updated. So even though they are now doing NAC they are still running as Nabba International with no affliliated countries.

Confusing?

[tomsammce]

you are right Nate, but realistically the people of universe quality will already know about qualification and would have done there research if they were un sure. also it wouldnt hurt people to do a small amount of research and inform themselves every so often. i dont think it takes 14 IQ to do that.. i mean 140 :grin:

[genetic freek]

Nate, chill on the self praise mate. We all know you are the man

[Optimass]

this was the real name for a very long time NZFBB but now the Moe owns it he has change it to NZIFBB and with this you can get a IFBB PRO card if you are in his good books

I think it's this kind of talk that adds to the confusion. I'm not sure you can actually own a public society. This is why the federation has a constitution and elected board. Moe used to own NZFBB ltd (a company) that ran events on behalf of the NZFBB public society here in NZ. What has happened is he then changed the name of the limited liability company, but the society has stayed pretty much intact as it is the recognised arm of the IFBB in NZ since 1977. (You can understand why the IFBB have been reluctant to get involved as such with this much mana and history at stake).

The two name changes below:

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ NATIONAL PHYSIQUE COMMITTEE LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 03-JUN-2009

Company Name Change Details

New Company Name NZ ELITE & PROFESSIONALS BODY BUILDING LIMITED

Previous Company Name NZFBB LIMITED

Company Number 1721970

Effective Date of Change 13-JUL-2007

The incorporated society below; (still active and unchanged since 1977)

Number 224488 View Certificate Of Incorporation

Name NEW ZEALAND FEDERATION OF BODY BUILDERS' ASSOCIATION INCORPORATED

EMAIL CERTIFICATE

Incorporated 16-NOV-1977

Organisation Type Incorporated Society

[nate225]

Nate, chill on the self praise mate. We all know you are the man

Sorry bro, I know ur mama reminds you every day..... :grin:

You still training down there or what? At ESB or with MNZ?

When you boys have finished clearing the rubble I'll have to tee up another visit to catch up with everyone.

(Hijack Finished)

Opti - cheers for the background info. All & all though I gotta say BBing in NZL is a murky picture, reminiscent of PLing in the US.

Luckily PLing & SM seem to have avoided the politics down in our part of the world and competing is a simple process (luckily as we're not a very bright bunch but we can lift heavy stuff! :grin: ).

Maybe in a few years with some turnover of personel (and ego's) the BBing scene may become less fragmented again? I'll be watching (but not holding my breath given the experiences of the US PLing scene where a new federation seems to pop up everyday!).

Worth considering we only have 4 million people in NZL, very few of who are interested in BBing & even fewer who compete. Seems like a failed logic creating more competition amongst such a limited market.

Rant over!

[tomsammce]

Nate there is too many Chiefs and not enough Indians. everybody wants to be top-dogg lol

[michaelk]

Michealk, think your missing the point again. It's not about those who should know, like you and a few others, it's more about getting everyone to know which federation they are competing under. NABBA nz are not Under NABBA International, they are under NAC.

As for IFBB, Mark Stewart running it again??? what happened to Phil Hope running the South Pacific IFBB?

I'm not the IFBB nor the NZFBB I just compete under that organization so not here to argue their case.

I was wondering then to assist with the "confusion" why not run your shows under the banner WFF?

(and what does that stand for)

ps I'm not for or against either NABBA, I truely don't care, just being voyeristic.

[aln]

Now you being silly Michealk. NABBA/WFF stays! WFF Stands for World Fitness Federation.

Best you help out IFBB...they need it.

[nate225]

The NABBA debate has me confused!

NABBA International is who?? :?

NABBA NZ (Jim Pitt's crowd) links to http://www.nabba-international.org/ and of course NAC

NABBA-WFF (Graham Lancefield's outfit) links to http://www.nabba-international.com/

NABBA NZ (Jim Pitt's crowd) appears to be dominated by NZ, Spain & Greece looking at its Exec, however they claim member nations are around 42 nations.

NABBA-WFF (Graham Lancefield's outfit) claim member numbers of around 35 nations.

Both Organisations "Universe Legends / Winners" begin around 1950 (Amatuer Physique Men) and are the same competitors until 2001, when they split.

If thats not confusing what is? :grin: