14 year old looking for advice

[tinytraps]

For it to count as a true bench you have to pause on your chest before pressing it up. It's to do with something called the stretch-shortening cycle, basically your muscles can act as a spring/elastic and store some energy to help press the weight back up. So to negate that effect you have to pause it on your chest for a second or two to allow that energy to dissipate, and then it truly is all you creating the force to press the weight.

Try it with 80k or so sometime, lower it to your chest and pause, then press it. I guarantee you it will be harder than just going straight down and up with the 80kg.

so based on what your saying, in order for me to do a 'true squat' I have to pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex?

we are talking bout bench press here. not squat incase u hadnt realised afer about 3 pages of convo

No shit sherlock.

I was reffering to Phedders reasoning about the stretch reflex and transferring it to the squat. :roll:

[TonganTerror]

bahahaha now he telling a powerlifter how to do it muah haha come on young fella keep it together now lol

edit to self>>>just realised its tom giving you shit TT not the young fella so.....come on old boy(tom ) dont tell someone with the same letters as me(TT) grief auw

[Jigga]

i don't think tomatosauce is an 'old' boy exactly but he was benching 4 plates at one point which is preeety solid

[tomsammce]

so based on what your saying, in order for me to do a 'true squat' I have to pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex?

we are talking bout bench press here. not squat incase u hadnt realised afer about 3 pages of convo

No shit sherlock.

I was reffering to Phedders reasoning about the stretch reflex and transferring it to the squat. :roll:

so whats your point. his statment was in relation to the bench press, had nothing to do with squat... they are two completly different exercises and cant really be compared, and the techniques used in both are totally different also.

also TT i dont get what you are saying. your post made no sense to me? i was just saying he has very good strength for a 14 year old but his form is shocking and he cheated, to sum it up. i am about to go to the post shop soon also.

Jigga are you going to send the protein to this young fulla?

[Jigga]

yeah i pm'd him. i'm in nelson atm and won't be back in dunedin for a week or so. it's a massive bucket so i'm going to have to find out what it would cost to post to palmy from dunaz. i'm impressed you're posting him the shiz :clap:

[Phedder]

For it to count as a true bench you have to pause on your chest before pressing it up. It's to do with something called the stretch-shortening cycle, basically your muscles can act as a spring/elastic and store some energy to help press the weight back up. So to negate that effect you have to pause it on your chest for a second or two to allow that energy to dissipate, and then it truly is all you creating the force to press the weight.

Try it with 80k or so sometime, lower it to your chest and pause, then press it. I guarantee you it will be harder than just going straight down and up with the 80kg.

so based on what your saying, in order for me to do a 'true squat' I have to pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex?

I was only referring to the bench press, I don't know enough about the rules for proper squatting to comment really. It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

[TonganTerror]

sorry tom forget that post I initially thought it was the original poster having a go at TT but then I just went off course lol as you were double barrel :grin:

[Jigga]

It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

Unsure how there is greater potential energy stored in your muscles at the bottom of the movement? Unless you are reffering to the elastic potential energy of your ribcage as the bar sinks in to your chest? I suppose muscles tightening and then being stretched could provide an added elastic force :think:

[tinytraps]

For it to count as a true bench you have to pause on your chest before pressing it up. It's to do with something called the stretch-shortening cycle, basically your muscles can act as a spring/elastic and store some energy to help press the weight back up. So to negate that effect you have to pause it on your chest for a second or two to allow that energy to dissipate, and then it truly is all you creating the force to press the weight.

Try it with 80k or so sometime, lower it to your chest and pause, then press it. I guarantee you it will be harder than just going straight down and up with the 80kg.

so based on what your saying, in order for me to do a 'true squat' I have to pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex?

I was only referring to the bench press, I don't know enough about the rules for proper squatting to comment really. It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

So my tendons connective tissues and muscles quickly shortening then contracting is not all me? In competition You have to pause a bench so that is where I will pause my benches. No need to pause them on the chest unless that is where you are weak then by all means go ahead. But discounting someones lift because they took advantage of there bodys natural response. Ill revert back to my squat example when a lifter does a dive bomb squat of say 300kg would you say wow nice squat or that squats not a squat because you used the stretch reflex to your advantage?

Its possible to use the stretch reflex in your aid even with a pause just like its possible to lose it with a tng bench.

It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

Unsure how there is greater potential energy stored in your muscles at the bottom of the movement? Unless you are reffering to the elastic potential energy of your ribcage as the bar sinks in to your chest? I suppose muscles tightening and then being stretched could provide an added elastic force :think:

Basically if you quickly load the eccentric phase your bodys response is to contract those muscles being stretched, this is the stretch reflex. Or so I think :pfft:

[Phedder]

It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

Unsure how there is greater potential energy stored in your muscles at the bottom of the movement? Unless you are reffering to the elastic potential energy of your ribcage as the bar sinks in to your chest? I suppose muscles tightening and then being stretched could provide an added elastic force :think:

Because at the bottom of the movement, your muscles are stretched out and elastic, so they want to return to a more neutral position. Not the energy of your ribcage :pfft: That definitely should not happen, I think it's meant to be paused on the chest but you still hold the weight, not let your chest absorb it haha.

Basically if you quickly load the eccentric phase your bodys response is to contract those muscles being stretched, this is the stretch reflex. Or so I think :pfft:

The stretch reflex and stretch shortening cycle are different principles, and it's the stretch shortening cycle that I was referring to. I don't think the stretch reflex requires much loading, simply stretching the muscle causes reflex, like how doctors do the hammer tap on your patella tendon and you kick your leg. Quickly loading the eccentric phase ties more in with the stretch shortening cycle and the stored potential energy.

[Phedder]

so based on what your saying, in order for me to do a 'true squat' I have to pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex?

I was only referring to the bench press, I don't know enough about the rules for proper squatting to comment really. It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

So my tendons connective tissues and muscles quickly shortening then contracting is not all me? In competition You have to pause a bench so that is where I will pause my benches. No need to pause them on the chest unless that is where you are weak then by all means go ahead. But discounting someones lift because they took advantage of there bodys natural response. Ill revert back to my squat example when a lifter does a dive bomb squat of say 300kg would you say wow nice squat or that squats not a squat because you used the stretch reflex to your advantage?

Its possible to use the stretch reflex in your aid even with a pause just like its possible to lose it with a tng bench.

Sorry, I initially missed this one.

I thought in competition the bench press had to be paused on your chest before lifting? I was talking in the context of competition (of which I don't really know much, so forgive me if I assume wrong) I thought you had to pause the bench, which is why I initially said it wasn't a 'true bench' I shouldn't have used that term in the first place at all, but I meant it wouldn't count in a competition. With the squat I didn't think you had to pause at the bottom, you can just drop and come straight back up? So it would count, and the stretch shortening cycle would aid in that lift. I'd definitely applaud a 300kg dive bomb squat, what I'm saying is it would be harder to lift that weight if you paused at the bottom for a second or two, allowing some of the stored potential energy to dissipate, compared to dropping and coming up in one continuous motion.

I'm just commenting from my 200-level knowledge :pfft: I'm positive there are others out there who could explain this much better than I can as my understanding is still quite limited, and I've possibly mis-interpreted some things altogether. It'd be great if Pman could pipe in, he seems to have a solid understanding of muscle mechanics.

[Jigga]

It's a universal muscle principal though, so yeah pausing at the bottom of the squat instead of going straight down and back up would make it harder as there wouldn't be as much stored potential energy to help you shoot back up. I initially mentioned it because I believe it's a much better test of strength, because it's all you pressing the weight back up, not stored potential energy in the muscles helping out.

Unsure how there is greater potential energy stored in your muscles at the bottom of the movement? Unless you are reffering to the elastic potential energy of your ribcage as the bar sinks in to your chest? I suppose muscles tightening and then being stretched could provide an added elastic force :think:

Because at the bottom of the movement, your muscles are stretched out and elastic, so they want to return to a more neutral position. Not the energy of your ribcage :pfft: That definitely should not happen, I think it's meant to be paused on the chest but you still hold the weight, not let your chest absorb it haha.

I was being facetious with the ribcage comment. When you said potential energy stored IN the muscles it sounded like you were referring to stored chemical potential energy which you aren't going to have more of at the bottom of the movement.

[Phedder]

Oh no no, I should have clarified that I meant elastic potential energy. Thought the ribcage comment was a bit tongue in cheek :wink:

[tinytraps]

Yup in competition you lower the bar to your chest pause and then bench. I definetley agree with what your saying as in dissipation of the elastic potential energy however I guess the point I was attempting to get across(Didnt work out too wel :pfft: :pfft: :pfft: ) Was that If your not competing then a tng bench is a real bench

and no in comp you can bounce as much as you want, If you can maximize the stretch shorten cycle on squats it should be applicable to bench too

[rimma]

Point worth mentioning is that the OP didn't say he could lift a powerlifting approved, paused bench.

He just said that he benched 90kg, as proved by the video.

Kudos to him 8)

[eskrock]

i got a vid of me pausing at my chest and then lifting today and il try and upload it later but il hav to see if i can use my mates shit to upload it. and i see what you mean its a bit harder haha was just at the point of giving up but pushed myself the extra few inches and managed to do it haha cheers

[Dontrunwithknives]

Looking forward to seeing it.

[ThePman]

lol

[Dontrunwithknives]

lol

:?:

[tomsammce]

I love this shit! people saying they can do something then ppl saying they6 cant then the person putting up a vid and bumming everyone out. even if was me getting bummed up. its great, should have more of this kinda shit on the site!

[INSPECTOR64]

I love this shit! people saying they can do something then ppl saying they6 cant then the person putting up a vid and bumming everyone out. even if was me getting bummed up. its great, should have more of this kinda shit on the site!

:pfft:

Sorry bro had to.

[eskrock]

yeh matee il post tht vid sunday or monday

[ED_AISH]

Good on you mate!

[eskrock]

cheers. i was wondering if someone could explain to me the different types/ sections of bodybuilding.

thanks

[ED_AISH]

Shouldn't you be in class?

Depends on what federation you compete in.

NZFBB has novice & open through various weight classes (novice is normally until you have placed 1st in a comp or top 3 at nationals) and also has mens classic with a height to weight limit. NABBA has similar with various weight classes and also athletic short and tall classes also with height to weight restrictions.