Alpha T2

[Pseudonym]

After Chemo mentioned Alpha T2 recently I had a bit of a nosey. It sounds like a very cool thermogenic fatburner.

I like the idea of a fatburner that works more by increasing the metabolism than by making you jittery. But I'm a little bit wary of screwing around with my thyroid hormones. The marketing people promise this product doesn't suppress your thyroid, but they would say that.

There's a lot of positive feedback out there, with people raving about it, but actually I find myself underwhelmed by the reviews. People are saying it's wonderful, and that they dropped 3% body fat, and this is the most amazing thing ever... and I'm left going "Really?" Maybe I'm being cynical, but 3% doesn't seem that impressive to me, particularly when they're doing diet and cardio as well.

Anyway, I'd like to know what the experts here think about Alpha T2? Is it any good? A waste of money? Downright dangerous?

[Hennie]

I am not an expert, guess you could wait till flex or the likes comment on this.....but my 2cents would be that there could be a customs issue as Rauwolscine HCL 7 mg is Yohimbine, and I would not screw around too much with my thyroid seeing that both under and over active thyroid conditions are not desirable and long term effect of Alpha T2 use could not have been established yet.

I have heard about sweating when using it by just sitting still, sounds potent and tempting, I must admit.

[Chemo]

It looks now where near as suppressive as t3, but your body will still have to balance out after taking t2.

"Over-The Counter Thyroid Hormone?

Recently, Biotest Laboratories has released a very interesting product that they are calling T2 (otherwise known as 3,5-diiodo-l-thyronine or just diiodothyronine). T2 is definitely a legitimate thyroid hormone, structurally very like T3 or T4. However this product is allowed to be sold as an over the counter dietary supplement due to the fact that is present in meat.

In the past, T2 was thought to be inactive, but many recent papers have shown T2 to have some pretty dramatic effects on metabolic processes. One issue of concern in the interpretation of this data is the fact most of these studies used hypothyroid rats that are producing very little thyroid hormone on their own. Therefore since these studies did not examine the effects of adding T2 into a normal thyroidal environment, they may not be totally applicable to individuals with normal thyroid functioning. In any case, the studies are certainly worth mentioning.

- Significant increases in mitochondrial respiration and cytochrome

oxidase activity were found both in vitro and in vivo (1). These

increases lead to an increase in metabolic rate. Interestingly, these

effects are different from those of T3 and T4 due to the fact that T2

acts directly on the mitochondrial respiration while T3 and T4 must

first increase oxidative enzyme levels. This means that T2 has a much

more rapid stimulation of metabolic rate (1 hour for T2 vs 24 hours

for T3). Some authors have concluded that T2 may be beneficial in

rapid energy requiring situations like cold exposure or overfeeding

(2).

- Significant increases in resting metabolic rate (33%) were found

(1,3). Both T2 and T3 were able to stimulate the recovery of

metabolic rate to normal, euthyroid levels.

- Significant increases in the oxidative capacity of skeletal muscle,

brown adipose tissue, liver, and the heart were found (1,4). Both T2

and T3 promoted full recovery of oxidative capacity but T2 was most

active in the liver and the muscle while T3 was most active in the

liver.

- Significant increases in the liver activities of glucose-6-phosphate

dehydrogenase and malic enzyme were found (5,6). These enzymes are

necessary for fat metabolism.

- Significant increases in GH release were found. Both T2 and T3

increased GH release 5-fold (7).

- In the one human study I found, T2 Significantly increased oxygen

consumption in blood cells in vitro (8).

In most of the studies listed above, the doses of T2 required for physiological and biochemical effects to manifest were larger than the doses of T3 required. This is due to the fact that T2 has a lower receptor affinity for most thyroid hormone receptors than does T3.

So from these data, if the dose is right, T2 supplementation may offer most of the same benefits as T3 but might even be superior in rapidly stimulating metabolic rate. This could come in handy before a big Easter dinner or your weekly dietary cheat day.

The next question then is to ask whether or not T2 can suppress natural thyroid hormone (as measured by TSH concentrations) production like T3 can. This is where things get a little sketchy. In hypothyroid rats, T3 seems to have a much larger suppressive effect than does T2.

- Moreno et al found that it took 5x as much T2 to suppress TSH when

compared to T3 (7).

- Cimmino et al found that it took 25x as much T2 to suppress TSH when

compared to T3 (3).

- Ball et al found that 100x the dose of T2 lead to 5x less suppression

of TSH when compared to T3 (6).

- In vitro data by Everts et al showed that T2 was 100x less

suppressive than T3 (9).

- Finally, Horst et al showed that in euthyroid rats, while it took

over 100x as much T2 to suppress TSH compared with T3, even at these

doses, there were no major changes in body weight with T2

supplementation (10).

So from these data it is pretty clear that it takes a much large dose of T2 to suppress natural thyroid hormone production than T3.

Summary

Hopefully at this point you have a better understanding of how thyroid hormones work and why one would want to supplement with them. In addition, I hope you have a better understanding of T2. The other day a lady-friend of mine came up to me and asked me to give her my opinion as to whether on not she should take T2. And she asked me to tell her in layman's terms. So here's basically what I told her (unfortunately, the following is as "layman" as I get when talking about nutritional supplements); "From the data I've seen, it initially looks like T2 may really help to shed fat. However I have a few concerns. Since T2 is less active and has a lower affinity for the thyroid receptors in the cell than T3, larger doses of T2 are required to get the same fat-burning effects as you would get with T3. And although T2 is less suppressive than T3, the doses required to get full effectiveness may be enough to suppress natural thyroid production anyway. However I don't know the answers to this for sure and I'm fairly confident that no one does. I speculate, however, that the recommended dose of T2 is probably not going to cause much suppression of thyroid function. In addition this dose may have some effects on cellular metabolism but whether this dose dramatically increases fat loss, I can't be

certain."

"So in the end I can see one of four scenarios happening. First, the ideal scenario is that the doses of T2 recommended are effective and will not suppress thyroid function. This means lots of fat will be lost and there will be no rebound with cessation of use. Second, the does of T2 used are not very effective in fat loss and there will be little or no fat loss but at least there will be no suppression of thyroid function. So you wont get much leaner but you won't have any problems either. These are the two most likely scenarios. I sure hope the first one is the case but I can't be sure. There is just not enough data just yet."

"The third scenario is that people may take larger doses of T2 than recommended and lots of fat will be lost but there will also be thyroid suppression. This means that they must be prepared for the dreaded rebound and lower metabolic rate for a few weeks after going off the supplement. And the fourth scenario is that with higher than recommended doses, the thyroid will be suppressed and while some efficacy is evidenced, there will be a metabolic compromise. In response to suppression of the thyroid, T3 levels will go down. Since T3 which is responsible for several functions in the body that T2 isn't known to be active in, while you are on T2 you might not be getting all the benefits that T3 will promote. And again, when you go off, you will have a short rebound period of suppressed thyroid function."

So in the end, the question of whether T2 is a legitimate fat terminator is a tough one to answer. From the available data, there isn't a clear picture that I can present. However, I think that T2 is ultimately pretty safe at the recommended doses. Whether it works as well as some think is another question. Fortunately Biotest has asked me to investigate this very question in the lab so that we can have some real answers in the near future. Stay tuned for updates as to my progress"

I'm still keen to try it, my first run will be stacked with d-aspartic acid, then i should prob try it by itself.

[Hennie]

Let us know how it goes, just note the studies mentioned was done on rats. the guy on SHR is stoked with the results so I guess there should be some good results

[Flex]

I am not an expert, guess you could wait till flex or the likes comment on this..

I don't know a whole shitload about the thyroid other than not wanting to mess around with it too much. Personally I wouldn't really get in to something like T2 unless you know what you are doing or are already under 10% bodyfat and want to get as low as you can.

In saying that....

Recently, Biotest Laboratories has released a very interesting product that they are calling T2 (otherwise known as 3,5-diiodo-l-thyronine or just diiodothyronine

This must be a really old post you're quoting here as Biotest T2 hasn't been around for donkeys. I used it back in the good old days on a keto diet with Biotest MD6 (ECA stack) and it worked pretty well. About a year or so later a found an unused bottle and dabbled with it again with some more ECA and it was absolutely horrendous - made me sweat like a mofo and I felt terrible so I haven't attempted to play with anything like that since.

By all accounts the effects of 3,5-diiodo-l-thyronine in Biotest T2 is a bit different to 3,3-diiodo-l-thyronine which is used in Alpha T2 so that info about Biotest T2 doesn't really relate to the Alpha T2.

[Pseudonym]

Chemo, was that excerpt from John Berardi? I stumbled across a write-up from him in an Alpha T2 topic, but some sections are identical to parts of the excerpt you've posted here, so now I'm not sure that it's applicable:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/performa ... ost2396291

Thanks for the responses, guys. It does reinforce my gut feeling that perhaps the thyroid is something best treated carefully. Did you see much of a rebound from the 3.5 version Flex?

[Flex]

Did you see much of a rebound from the 3.5 version Flex?

No rebound as far as fat accumulation goes - from memory it was coupled with a 1200 or 1400cal keto diet (either the velocity or fat fast diet). I got pretty lean on it all over 3 or 4 weeks so had the old rebound as far as glycogen replenishment and water once I got back on the carbs. Nothing too bad as far as reduced metabolic rate that I could notice.

[Chemo]

wow flex thats a super low cal diet!

Any reason for this? In anticipation of the thyroid rebound?

And yeah reading that link Pseudonym it looks almost identical. Although I didnt catch the authors name. I think it was just another copy paste on a forum though.

The PES Reps seem to think that you wont need a thyroid pct, and in general the feedback is good. I expect it's not going to be mindblowing but hopefully an aid to get rid of some stubborn fat from my fatty days :3

Could also be a neat trick to drop down to fighting weight etc.

I'd love to try a lean bulk as suggested on SHR too. I like what the supplement could potentially do in terms of growth, im not sure how effective it is for the task but if it "increases GH significantly" sounds like a win win to me if its all relatively safe.

and heres hoping it gets through customs

[Flex]

wow flex thats a super low cal diet!

Any reason for this? In anticipation of the thyroid rebound?

It's a ketogenic diet, I think it was 1400 cals and I was dieting to get under 80kg at the time. Wasn't doing any cardio due to being in ketosis the whole time and was only eating/drinking whey protein shakes and flax oil for first two weeks - think I introduced eggs and cheese plus some tuna/mayo, & red meat in the third week. Eating 1400cals from just whey protein and flaxseed oil isn't much fun and I don't think I could have handled more than that. Not doing any cardio and using ECA means you can keep the cals down a bit.

[Chemo]

Wow at what rate were you loosing weight? That seems almost drastic to drop to under 80. What was the drop in weight for, sports specific?

[Flex]

Wow at what rate were you loosing weight? That seems almost drastic to drop to under 80. What was the drop in weight for, sports specific?

Not everyone wants or needs to weigh 100kg or whatever other magic figure it is that some guys seem to need to reach. No specific reason to lose weight other than to get lean and follow a challenging diet. I used to like keto diets so thought of it as a bit of challenge and strangely enjoyable. Like i said I wasn't doing cardio so the cals could be lower. If i was burning 500cals a day in a 60min cardio session then it would have been low but 1400 with no cardio isn't that bad. I can't remember the exact figures but weight loss wasn't overly fast - normally 3 or 4 kg in the first week on a keto which is mainly water and then maybe 1 or 2 kg a week for the next 3 weeks.

[Chemo]

wooo it arrived, quietly stoked as it took a while O__O"

[Dontrunwithknives]

Post up a pic of it?

[Chemo]

What would be the point of posting a pic?

[Dontrunwithknives]

I did wonder if that was a dumb question :pfft:

Just wanted to see what it is / looks like.

[Chemo]

its just like a normal capsule bro

[Dontrunwithknives]

Let us know how it goes :nod:

[Chemo]

for sure will start a new thread when i get time, first day today, 1 cap in the morning and another at 3pm. didnt get the sweating but i felt a lot hungrier around midday, i felt i needed to eat my lunch an hour earlier than usual. took it easy in the gym, was back day, i definitly felt a lot warmer than what i usually would, i didnt super set or drop set and still worked up a good sweat.

[Dontrunwithknives]

Sounds good, where did you buy it from?

I found all the places that stock it on the PES website but I wouldn't mind using one that has been proven to get here.

Was it http://www.nutraplanet.com ?

Because I found the PrimaForce D-Aspartic Acid there too.

Any reason you went for the PrimaForce over the NutraPlanet which is US$13 cheaper? :wink:

[Chemo]

omg cheaper DAA >< didnt even know, that is suspiciously cheap though. meh i like primaforce, and trust its quality

[Flex]

I am not an expert, guess you could wait till flex or the likes comment on this.....but my 2cents would be that there could be a customs issue as Rauwolscine HCL 7 mg is Yohimbine,

Hey Hennie, have you had trouble with medsafe and Rauwolscine/alpha yohimbine?

You should point them in the direction of every Health2000 and health store in NZ that sells this over the counter

http://www.creativeenergy.co.nz/weight_ ... ermax2.asp

NFS Thermax

Each 6 Capsules Contain:

3,7 Keto (3 Acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone) 300mg

Coleus forskohlii (forskolin 45mg) 225mg

Citrus Aurantium (std to 6%+) 600mg

Green Tea Extract (std to 90% polyphenols) 300mg

Guarana extract (caffeine 132mg) 330mg

L-Tyrosine 300mcg

Chromium (as picolinate) 300mg

L-Carnitine 450mg

Garcinia cambogia (std HCA 50%) 750mg

Proprietary Blend (as below) 425mg

White willow bark, Cayenne, Octopamine, Rauwolscine,Iodotyrosine, Diiodotyrosine, Ginger root

Totarol (Potent natural antioxidant) 6mg

[Chemo]

Hey flex, just a quick question.

Is 3,3 t2 the same or similar to synthetic Guggulsterones?

Been looking around and they seem to do similar things, I thought that the alpha t2 could be just a re-branding of this stuff.

and just as an update for the alpha t2...very little results so far even at 5 caps a day (recomended was 3), apart from the fact im a little hungrier. I haven't had the crazy sweating yet unless im hitting the gym...but thats kinda expected.

I got another bottle ready to try on a low fat diet rather than a low carb diet.

[Pseudonym]

Interesting you should say that, Chemo. My Alpha T2 experience has been exactly the same... ie, not sure I can see anything at all. Maybe a little quicker to flush and sweat, but it's minimal at best and quite possibly just wishful thinking.

Ah well, it's been a while since I was last sucked into wasting money on useless supps. It was probably overdue.

[Dontrunwithknives]

Mine has not arrived after being shipped 2 weeks ago... The people from customs are probably at the gym right now using my alpha t2 and fat burners (with yohimbine) :pfft:

[crazyfacials]

Thank you Pseudonym and Chemo, I was about to buy a bottle of T2 but after reading this I think I'm going to stick to my Mitotropin/lean xtreme since I've noticed that they work really well on me (but then again different people react differently to different supplements, eg Jetfuel only gave me energy but never reduced my bf )