Low dosage use

[Chemo]

How beneficial is a low-medium low usage of gear?

I feel like I am in a good place with my training despite injuries, and as I begin to train more and more ( i could be on the border of over training but i'm enjoying it and too addicted to stop), I begin to wonder whether a low dosage of Dianabol+Winstrol would be useful for helping with my recovery, and allowing me to progress at a faster rate.

Would using these substances in low dosage allow me to stay on them for longer?

Would the side effects be lessened or just more drawn out? and on that note would the prolonged use of Win+Dbol have any long term effects on my natural test production and liver health?

Cheers

[Kiwijuice]

several questions you have asked above show you need to do a lot more research before considering this path.

[Chemo]

Hey, just reading through Anabolics 2009 and looking through the substance profiles, still a lot to take in. I was fishing for peoples opinions and if they had any experience or knowledge of low dose use. I see that in regular dosage or bodybuilding doses that yes it is toxic to the liver and that it does suppress natural test, I've yet to find anything on a low dose. What I want to do with is to use it to allow me to train a little harder rather than using it in bodybuilding doses.

I don't even know if that is advisable but It would be my trial with gear, and if possible i want to find a compromise between bodybuilding use and just general sports use.

[thatwaslight]

why f*ck around with a low dose, run a proper cycle and find out

[alex-art]

IMHO and many people who started from 500mg/week test-e will think I'm wrong - decide for yourself...

Try some mild roids like Winstrol/Primobolan and look how it goes. If you find no results at all starts dbol only 4 weeks cycle. Again note how's body reacting. Next step may be boldenon (doesn't work for me though) and only after any test.

[r1ngworm]

man this aas forum has turned to shit

[bob26]

several questions you have asked above show you need to do a lot more research before considering this path.

for the time you have spent writing above if you know something why not tell the guy! why is this the standard answer for every friggin questioned asked in this area of the forum. You can research all day long but it is still good to get opinions from people that may no from "personal experience".

why f*ck around with a low dose, run a proper cycle and find out

? not the answer to the question asked.

man this aas forum has turned to shit

if you can't offer anything constructive why bother typing? it will turn to shit if you answer everyone's questions like that.

[bob26]

Chemo has a genuine question here guys, and i guess it is only people that will know from personal experience that can answer him..

[Chemo]

IMHO and many people who started from 500mg/week test-e will think I'm wrong - decide for yourself...

Try some mild roids like Winstrol/Primobolan and look how it goes. If you find no results at all starts dbol only 4 weeks cycle. Again note how's body reacting. Next step may be boldenon (doesn't work for me though) and only after any test.

This, sounds like a good idea.

I guess generally most people are against the idea of a low dosage, but as Winny doesnt have any major sides, id be willing to jump into a standard dose of that.

and lol cheers for the support Bob, it is hard to get nzbb people to give some insight or opinion when most say "jst fkn google it tool" or something similar. Science is just opinion too, the moment something new is found out the fact changes. I just dont want to overlook something that could potentially harm or disadvantage me.

Looking to the future would Winny and Dbol stack well for long term use? or multiple cycles?

[alex-art]

Looking to the future would Winny and Dbol stack well for long term use? or multiple cycles?

Nope if you ask me. Both are short action so 4 weeks on, 8 weeks off is the best. Same for test propionate.

Anyway before you start stacking anything you should already be aware of the single roid action on your body.

BTW injectable winny is much better then orals

[train hard]

Looking to the future would Winny and Dbol stack well for long term use? or multiple cycles?

long term use definatly not they are both harsh on your liver i wouldnt take any longer then 6 weeks at a time max and then have abreak from any 17alkalated orals and then get your liver values cheked before commencing same cycle again.

steroids is serious shit and just because your taking a pill instead of injecting yourself does not make it any safer prolonged use of orals can fuk up your liver permantly i never take more then one oral 17alkalated at a time 4 weeks max and test is the base off all my cycles

[samoan_muscle]

Looking to the future would Winny and Dbol stack well for long term use? or multiple cycles?

Nope if you ask me. Both are short action so 4 weeks on, 8 weeks off is the best. Same for test propionate.

4 weeks on 8 weeks off for Test Propionate?

[nate225]

I generally don't comment on AAS topics as they tend to turn to shit and I don't want to be seen to be endorsing AAS usage.

HOWEVER the advice on this thread borders from poor to downright stupid IMHO!! :nod:

SM picked up on one such comment re: a short acting ester.

AA - why would you put a guy on 2 compounds rather than 1 on his first course? Particularly compounds that could have more complex PCT issues than T esters. Keeping it simple it makes sense that a first course should be T only.

Is low dose test is an option - IMHO I would say yes, I presume that is why it is used almost exclusively in HRT for males (a test blend or enanthate usually) based on medical research.

As mentioned in an earlier topic viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6130 I have spoken to elite SM competitors (International Pro's not local) who use what most here would term low dosage. One guy as low as 250 per week!!! :nod:

Again I'm no expert, (just a little better read than many it would seem! :grin: ), so I'd suggest Chemo asks someone who actually knows first hand as well as has a good theoretical basis for their advice..............MuscleNZ where are ya!!!!!! :grin:

[samoan_muscle]

I generally don't comment on AAS topics as they tend to turn to shit and I don't want to be seen to be endorsing AAS usage.

HOWEVER the advice on this thread borders from poor to downright stupid IMHO!! :nod:

SM picked up on one such comment re: a short acting ester.

AA - why would you put a guy on 2 compounds rather than 1 on his first course? Particularly compounds that could have more complex PCT issues than T esters. Keeping it simple it makes sense that a first course should be T only.

Is low dose test is an option - IMHO I would say yes, I presume that is why it is used almost exclusively in HRT for males (a test blend or enanthate usually) based on medical research.

As mentioned in an earlier topic viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6130 I have spoken to elite SM competitors (International Pro's not local) who use what most here would term low dosage. One guy as low as 250 per week!!! :nod:

Again I'm no expert, (just a little better read than many it would seem! :grin: ), so I'd suggest Chemo asks someone who actually knows first hand as well as has a good theoretical basis for their advice..............MuscleNZ where are ya!!!!!! :grin:

Agreed - IMO Test only for anyones first cycle. Regardless of goals.

Mind you, give anyone on this forum a little bit of gear for 5 mins and suddenly they become an expert on the subject.

I've gotten tired of correcting the shit advice some of these noobs are giving but youre right Nate, sometimes someone needs to step in.

IMHO and many people who started from 500mg/week test-e will think I'm wrong - decide for yourself...

Try some mild roids like Winstrol/Primobolan and look how it goes. If you find no results at all starts dbol only 4 weeks cycle. Again note how's body reacting. Next step may be boldenon (doesn't work for me though) and only after any test.

This is possibly the most bullshit, uninformed advice I've ever read.

[Pseudonym]

Thanks for helping Chemo out, guys.

Remember, this forum is what you make it. Asking a question here is just as legitimate as asking Google (and let's face it - if no-one asked questions in forums, Google would be no help either).

What concerns me is that when the people who know choose not to answer, that leaves it up to the people who don't. And particularly with AAS, the wrong advice can be dangerous. I dont know enough to be able to spot dodgy advice here, so if you do, please speak up. Remember, this forum is what you make it.

[Chemo]

I generally don't comment on AAS topics as they tend to turn to shit and I don't want to be seen to be endorsing AAS usage.

HOWEVER the advice on this thread borders from poor to downright stupid IMHO!! :nod:

SM picked up on one such comment re: a short acting ester.

AA - why would you put a guy on 2 compounds rather than 1 on his first course? Particularly compounds that could have more complex PCT issues than T esters. Keeping it simple it makes sense that a first course should be T only.

Is low dose test is an option - IMHO I would say yes, I presume that is why it is used almost exclusively in HRT for males (a test blend or enanthate usually) based on medical research.

As mentioned in an earlier topic viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6130 I have spoken to elite SM competitors (International Pro's not local) who use what most here would term low dosage. One guy as low as 250 per week!!! :nod:

Again I'm no expert, (just a little better read than many it would seem! :grin: ), so I'd suggest Chemo asks someone who actually knows first hand as well as has a good theoretical basis for their advice..............MuscleNZ where are ya!!!!!! :grin:

Woo someone not from the go hard or go home school of thought.

I've already contacted MNZ a while ago when i seriously thought about getting into it, but the dude is very busy and I don't want to get in his way.

It seems that the Test-E and Dbol (PCT) cycle is unavoidable. Or not worth it to start with, as much as I'd like to just try an oral version.

also something Ive been worried with it the permanent effects on LH, i've tried a few Google's, but from memory I think I had read an article saying that after one cycle of gear, it will effect your LH in the long term.

All I've found so far is the temp effects.

[Chemo]

Thanks for helping Chemo out, guys.

Remember, this forum is what you make it. Asking a question here is just as legitimate as asking Google (and let's face it - if no-one asked questions in forums, Google would be no help either).

What concerns me is that when the people who know choose not to answer, that leaves it up to the people who don't. And particularly with AAS, the wrong advice can be dangerous. I dont know enough to be able to spot dodgy advice here, so if you do, please speak up. Remember, this forum is what you make it.

Agree with this, pretty hard to get a straight up answer. Most of the time you just get slammed for not googling. :\

Haters gon hate :3

[nate225]

Having had a few, well actually more than a few, friends who have run gear, and to be fair quite a lot of gear for extended timeframes, and struggled to have kids due to reduced sperm counts I'd say there is some longterm risks to LH/FSH production.

Equally so I have more friends that have had no problems in this department (with longterm LH/FSH levels & sperm counts).

Interestingly though the limited literature I've seen doesn't confirm it one way or the other - I guess its a case of throwing your nuts on the table & hoping for the best! :grin:

Alternately, and very seriously, I would consider getting some swimmers frozen in case you do trash your HPTA longterm. Probably seems a bit drastic in your early 20's, but you only have to ask those that wish they had, to be convinced it is a sensible option.

Nate

[Optimass]

Try some mild roids like Winstrol and look how it goes. If you find no results at all starts dbol only 4 weeks cycle. Again note how's body reacting.

This is possibly the most bullshit, uninformed advice I've ever read.

this is pretty much how I got my feet wet -

Low dose is good - (knowing what I know now) test is best - happy to say there is nothing wrong with my berries, (have two blessings to prove it) - never done PCT, prefer to taper down slowly (Old school aye) - only long term sides are hair loss on head & and hair gain on body :grin: - put this down to not going over 600mg week and taking 6 months between cycles. (Its not a race for me - rather have quality gains and maintain good natural recovery).

Prefer not to take orals - and winnie inj is superior yes :nod:

[alex-art]

This is possibly the most bullshit, uninformed advice I've ever read.

It's not an advise it's IMHO :nod:

[severe]

Plenty of people get good, as in very noticable, gains from 250mg/wk of test enanthate. My first was 500mg/wk and the gains were very noticable. Not sure how 250mg would have gone, as a first.

I did 500mg again after that, with boldenone.

I have run 250 since then, and still feel and recover great. The gains still came, but had a 4wk of Dbol, and boldenone @600mg/wk. so it not just test.

Chemo, you can't go wrong with a straight test enanthate (long ester) cycle. I never boosted it with Dbol first time, just the 250mgx2/wk. I even noticed the wolverine-like recovery by the 3rd pin. :nod:

Everywhere you look, you will see that testosterone alone is a great place to start, and to remain, if you choose, if you start.

[Luigi]

This is possibly the most bullshit, uninformed advice I've ever read.

It's not an advise it's IMHO :nod:

an opinion best kept to yourself perhaps.

[Chemo]

Having had a few, well actually more than a few, friends who have run gear, and to be fair quite a lot of gear for extended timeframes, and struggled to have kids due to reduced sperm counts I'd say there is some longterm risks to LH/FSH production.

Equally so I have more friends that have had no problems in this department (with longterm LH/FSH levels & sperm counts).

Interestingly though the limited literature I've seen doesn't confirm it one way or the other - I guess its a case of throwing your nuts on the table & hoping for the best! :grin:

Alternately, and very seriously, I would consider getting some swimmers frozen in case you do trash your HPTA longterm. Probably seems a bit drastic in your early 20's, but you only have to ask those that wish they had, to be convinced it is a sensible option.

Nate

way to put me off Nate x__x

[nate225]

Having had a few, well actually more than a few, friends who have run gear, and to be fair quite a lot of gear for extended timeframes, and struggled to have kids due to reduced sperm counts I'd say there is some longterm risks to LH/FSH production.

Equally so I have more friends that have had no problems in this department (with longterm LH/FSH levels & sperm counts).

Interestingly though the limited literature I've seen doesn't confirm it one way or the other - I guess its a case of throwing your nuts on the table & hoping for the best! :grin:

Alternately, and very seriously, I would consider getting some swimmers frozen in case you do trash your HPTA longterm. Probably seems a bit drastic in your early 20's, but you only have to ask those that wish they had, to be convinced it is a sensible option.

Nate

way to put me off Nate x__x

LOL - it was neither meant to put you off or promote AAS use.

I just think each individual needs to consider all aspects (pros vs cons) and decide whats best for themselves. Newbies love to convince themselves there are no risks or side effects, there are, although not as drastic as most media portray. Bigger, Faster, Stronger is a good starting point, then read a little literature. Make the call based on your risk:reward perception, not that of someone else, their personal situation dictates their decision not yours.

[Chemo]

Yeah for sure man, Ive already seen bigger faster, it defiantly set my mind in a neutral position and made me open up to the unnatural option. I'm glad I'm tackling all these questions early on, its going to be a while before I actually start to pin up, if i decide thats the way to go. Peer support like this is fkn awesome, high five to all