Personal Trainers / Coaches - a different perspective

[nate225]

Perhaps what has not been mentioned here & what can be absent from a coaching perspective is the abilty to not only teach at the Physical Level but also at the Emotional, Mental & even the Spiritual Levels. These include the Mind (conscientious & subconscientious), the Personality & the Ego (for BBers ) & the Soul. The Physical Body is only one aspect of the Being & without addressing the many other complex aspects of the person it is difficult to achieve a state of connectedness with the Physical Body & achieve "growth". All aspects of the person must be in harmony to move forward.

so true Im sure I can see my quads grow when im in emotional harmony yet im also sure I see them shrink when I go through the rare tough time.......

Tongan Terror - there is some physiological basis for what you are saying - stress & cortisol levels - might be worth a read about bro? I kinda take the approach of avoiding getting stressed out over stuff (as much as possible! :grin: ) as I remember that increased cortisol levels equal catabolism! It probably doesn't make for a huge difference in the scheme of mass development but it certainly keeps me in a good mood more often! :grin:

MuscleNZ - I'm not such a tree hugger as you but I do agree! How many guys (and girls) have we all seen that have huge potential but never make it. The majority of time this comes down to where the top two inches are at. If a coach can keep an athletes head in the game that athletes chances of success are hugely magnified. I can think of a great case in point with a hugely successful ex-AB (no names this time!) who nearly didnt make it for the above reasons, the coaching staff saw his potential and a heap of work with him saw him achieve to the highest level in rugby.

Inline with what you are saying MNZ, I think a good Sports Psychologist would benefit almost every athlete as part of their coaching team (cost around $150-200 per hour). Most carded athletes in NZL will have had this input, as have most franchise & development level rugby players. Dave Hadfield is highly recommended.

[D-Rock]

I will confess that I am an "internet trained professional" :-) And I will also confess that I know nothing! Ok thats a figurative nothing. I know a reasonable amount, my research is quite thorough, and plentiful from what I hope are accurate reputable sources, going along with trial and error training on what I have learnt. But I am not silly enough to think I know it all. There is a lot I don't know. There is a lot I would like to know. I know lots about some things and little about others. And it is a real shame that I am certain that the little I do know is ALOT more than most personal trainers I have witnessed over the years.

I have been a member at several gyms in the past, and always get given the typical one free trainer session. Everytime I have my free session I am severly dissapointed with the experience and the program they decide to give me. Its not encouraging when I see the trainer a few days later running through the EXACT same program he gave me (a 29 year old male), with a 60ish year old woman. I realise that the PTs who tend to do the free sessions are usually the freshly educated ones gathering experience, but they will not get much out of it if they keep dishing out the same program to everyone. I might add that the program I was given, I ran through with the trainer and never touched again. He had obviously not listened to a word I said during the initial consultation as there were exercises on it that would only agrivate a current injury I had mentioned, and the split and frequency of the work out didn't even slightly match what I had said regarding how often I was going to train etc. And as always, no mention at all about nutrition. So as someone mentioned earlier, listening is something that is vital. A different trainer once gave me a "sport specific" program, and that was not even close to what it should have been.

During between set rests, I sometimes watch to see what other people are doing and also see what trainers are doing with clients. And it is worrying to see PTs teaching incorrect form and not even paying attention to client and staring blankly into the distance repeating in a mono tone voice "keep going, thats it, you're doing well". I can understand that when most of your client base are people who just plod through the gym, it could get really boring, but that is when they should try to step it up a gear make it interesting for them.

Not wanting to be totally negative, on the flip side I have witnessed some excellent trainers. Very knowledgable, hard working and dedicated. Willing to offer advice and helping out anyone in the gym who wants it. And able to identify when someone could do with some encouragement, or a bit of info, and willing to offer it to them. I see them training each client differently, pushing some to the absolute limit and knowing exactly what the client can handle, reading the signals and adapting so the client gets the absolute most out of the session. So I do have faith that if one day I decide to go down the road of using a PT, I know that I will be able to find someone who meets and exceeds my expectations. They are out there. And I fully admire the good work you do.

Oh, and if any of the freshly educated PTs happen to read this, I am not bagging all of you. It might be an unfair stereotype, but if you are good, prove it and it will make you stand out. You have oppotunity and potential. Use it. If this is your chosen career, and you are passionate about it, I wish you every success. But here is a couple of bits of advice from an observer to you, take it or leave it. A) listen to the client, and put in that little bit of effort to try and make the service you provide actually useful to them. B) Be professional. When you are in an area which (usually) has mirrors all around it, your stupid antics (such as mocking your overweight client behind their back to your cool gym buddies does not go unnoticed. The client might not see it, but the rest of us do! C) If you are the trainer who talks to your client in a much louder than necessary voice (so everyone knows you are THE MAN), telling them all about the science behind what you are making them do (which most appear to not be the slighest bit interested in), back it off a bit, because there are people within ear shot who do know more than you, and alot of the time you are pretty much yelling "I'm full of shit" to everyone around you.

Ok, that will do.

[michaelk]

I've coached a number of athletes over the years and have never made more than a free beer from it.

Nate

= WILL SQUAT FOR BEER

[ThePman]

This thread reminded me that I actually wrote up a bit on my thought processes not too long ago.

It may be worth a read if you care about that sort of thing:

http://impulsestrength.co.nz/training-philosophy

[oldfella]

This thread reminded me that I actually wrote up a bit on my thought processes not too long ago.

It may be worth a read if you care about that sort of thing:

http://impulsestrength.co.nz/training-philosophy

Good read.

[Chillicat]

When I moved from general pissing around fitness to bodybuilding I sought out a trainer/coach who had been there and done it.

That's the key for me. I'm pretty much just pissing around, and make no claims to being a bodybuilder or intending to compete. I just get a kick out of lifting weights and like the changes it's made to my body and continues to make. If I ever take the next step then I wouldn't hesitate to find a decent trainer/coach - I'd be completely clueless on my own about the ins and outs of training and nutrition.

At the moment though, spending that kind of money is not going to happen. I see no sense and don't see it as an investment unless I have clear goals that I want to achieve (in terms of aiming to compete) - 'general pissing around fitness' is ok for me for the time being and I don't think that necessitates a trainer.

[nate225]

This thread reminded me that I actually wrote up a bit on my thought processes not too long ago.

It may be worth a read if you care about that sort of thing:

http://impulsestrength.co.nz/training-philosophy

Excellent read PMan, I particularly liked the quote:

The measuring stick should be the trainer’s ability to get you the results you asked for, and very little else.

[nate225]

Tongan Terror - there is some physiological basis for what you are saying - stress & cortisol levels - might be worth a read about bro? I kinda take the approach of avoiding getting stressed out over stuff (as much as possible! :grin: ) as I remember that increased cortisol levels equal catabolism! It probably doesn't make for a huge difference in the scheme of mass development but it certainly keeps me in a good mood more often! :grin:

I was going to add this at the time TT but I decided to omit as I was in a hurry. Was skimming PMans site though and read his article on Cortisol and it prompted me that my earlier omission should be added!

Cortisol aint all bad!

Just ask some poor idiot that's tried using Cytadren (Aminoglutethimide), an anticortisol drug used in treating Cushings syndrome that became popular with BBers in the 90's. Sore joints much?!!!!

Cortisol has a role to play in keeping joints healthy.

Rant over! :grin:

[teamfatboy]

A really great thread, getting a lot from it.

From the POV of someone who started from stone-cold ignorant six years back, I can say that over that time I've learned a lot from watching good PTs and Coaches, and bad ones.

There are some PTs I've seen, who I now know I wouldn't trust to guide me across the street, such is their ignorance and lack of professionalism. Funnily enough, many of them haven't lasted, because word of mouth is a powerful thing.

As I've progressed, I've probably gained a fair amount from those who've given their advice free, people at the gym like Agent86 and his training buddy, as well as folks on here. But a few years ago, I doubt I could have realised the difference between good advice and bad. So, for me a key takeaway is that a client's needs will change, and a good PT must see that and work with it - and many don't

Now, my needs are shifting from "form coach" and "routine formulator" to needing assistance with the psychological edge - the motivation and will to get in there and do things which you just KNOW will cause pain, one way or another, again and again 'til it delivers results. Many PTs, I suspect, lose clients because their skill range doesn't go that far.

Like the analogy about chefs, I think I'd probably also be inclined to be more discriminating about what I want such a person to do - to have a proven track record of getting the results that I want. Some of the trainers at my gym are great at getting housewives to dump a few kilos, but would be lousy at helping an intermediate trainee like me add 20kg to my bench...they haven't learned to think sufficiently critically, or to apply the basic science accurately.

[HumanPerformance]

This thread reminded me that I actually wrote up a bit on my thought processes not too long ago.

It may be worth a read if you care about that sort of thing:

http://impulsestrength.co.nz/training-philosophy

Excellent read PMan, I particularly liked the quote:

The measuring stick should be the trainer’s ability to get you the results you asked for, and very little else.

Agree with this. If your not getting the results you paid for its time to see a different trainer.

[rimma]

Rimma - no one said you have to pay for coaching. Sometimes you'll find someone who has a heap of knowledge they'll share for free (check my list over the last 20 years! :grin: ). I've coached a number of athletes over the years and have never made more than a free beer from it.

That said if you don't have access to the sort of people with the knowledge you need, it might pay to save up for a few consults, with a bit of time in between to do your 'homework'. With the right person you'll make more progress in a few months than you would in years.

Nate

I live in a rural town and don't know of anyone in the business. The nearest gym with PT's etc is probably 40km away :grin:

What Chillicat said resonated with me. I think there's a strong distinction between people who are seriously interested in lifting and those that are 'pissing around' like me. I would define pissing around as being as newb, doing it for fun and personal satisfaction, and not planning to compete.

So I came up with three circumstances under which I would get coaching:

1. If I met someone with experience who offered to give me a few pointers for beer. :pfft: (unlikely)

2. If I got alot of money to splash around, moved out of home, and could pay for coaching. (very unlikely)

3. If I wanted to get serious and make real progress for some sport, competition, etc. (extremely unlikely)

So yeah, PT/coach guidance would be frickin great, but in a way its no biggie. It would just go on the wishlist along with new TV, money for booze, renting a flat or whatever. A luxury not a necessity.

[Chillicat]

2. If I got alot of money to splash around

...

A luxury not a necessity.

Yeah, that's true for me too. Like everyone, I have to live within my means and make choices on what I spend my disposable income on. If I considered myself to be a serious athlete, a coach wouldn't be a luxury, it'd be a no-brainer. But for me, a PT at a cost of say $60 per session, once a week - well, multiplied by 52 weeks that's about what I've paid for my airfare to go to England for Xmas so we can spend time with hubby's family and see old friends. My choice at this point in life is to direct that disposable income in the direction of my holiday. Both are luxuries, but I guess it's a matter of what is most important for the person at the time.

Maybe if I had an extra $3k per year kicking around I might get a trainer - but I suspect I'd find other things to prioritize, unless I decide to aim to compete.

[nate225]

2. If I got alot of money to splash around

...

A luxury not a necessity.

Yeah, that's true for me too. Like everyone, I have to live within my means and make choices on what I spend my disposable income on. If I considered myself to be a serious athlete, a coach wouldn't be a luxury, it'd be a no-brainer. But for me, a PT at a cost of say $60 per session, once a week - well, multiplied by 52 weeks that's about what I've paid for my airfare to go to England for Xmas so we can spend time with hubby's family and see old friends. My choice at this point in life is to direct that disposable income in the direction of my holiday. Both are luxuries, but I guess it's a matter of what is most important for the person at the time.

Maybe if I had an extra $3k per year kicking around I might get a trainer - but I suspect I'd find other things to prioritize, unless I decide to aim to compete.

Coaches don't have to equal $3000 a year Chillicat! My extensive list of coaches has cost me zip to date, but with my decision to book a paid consult it will now average $5 per year! :grin:

Even a $60 session every few months might mean huge gains, and a lot more productive time in the gym? Worth considering.

[Chillicat]

Coaches don't have to equal $3000 a year Chillicat! My extensive list of coaches has cost me zip to date, but with my decision to book a paid consult it will now average $5 per year! :grin:

Even a $60 session every few months might mean huge gains, and a lot more productive time in the gym? Worth considering.

If someone is willing to coach me for $5 a year then I'm in

But as I said earlier, I'm not doing this to compete, just for fun. And I've been continuing to make gains week after week for the last year and a half. Once those gains come to a halt, then I'll reconsider, but for now it's just not a priority - but I take your points.

[Darwinstef]

I like PT's but only ones that I can see or I no have achieved. The inspiration factor is a big thing. I'm also in the same boat where I can't really afford one on a regular basis but have just arranged for a monthly catch up with one to steer me in the right direction.

Its always been money well spent.

[Sportsgirl]

I'm lucky because I have my own Personal Trainer :pfft:

I'd be spinning my wheels without him really.

If I knew I was going to get results, I would have no problem paying to have someone set me up a program and review it as needed. I probably could not afford a weekly session, but definitely an in person session once every 1-2 months and then have the trainer set up and review a training program for me.

[ThePman]

At the moment though, spending that kind of money is not going to happen. I see no sense and don't see it as an investment unless I have clear goals that I want to achieve (in terms of aiming to compete) - 'general pissing around fitness' is ok for me for the time being and I don't think that necessitates a trainer.

I've seen this comment a few times here, and it seems to me that everyone takes for granted that using a personal trainer or coach means that you have to show up for 2-3 hands-on sessions a week. That's definitely not for everyone and can get very expensive.

I can't speak for other trainers but I push a lot of consulting services and almost prefer to work in that role. Some clients will see me once a month just to make sure things are proceeding according to plan. I've had a few guys come see me for just one session to make sure their form is okay, or to have a chat and come up with a program. I've even done remote/online consulting for people that may not be in the country.

None of those options are as expensive as the hands-on approach "come see me twice a week" services, and I know I can't be the only one that offers that.

[oldfella]

Agree, you don't have to have weekly sessions - and yes they can get bloody expensive. I have tended to get less out of those than catch ups when required.

I've been through weekly sessions, fortnightly and also remote help where I've never met the guy. Now I catch up with a guy about every 6 weeks. But, if I'm not sure about something I'll get in touch sooner.

It's the old horses for courses. What are you looking for, what do you need, what can you afford, what plans, pricing plans are available? You weigh all these options up then choose the option that suits you.

I'm going for a whole new cycle of exercises soon and the guy I see will help me there fine. But I really need to nail the diet accurately to get the best from it. I like to work to a plan. I used to be given a pieces of paper with diets on. Stuck to those religiously and they worked. Took all the thinking of - shit, what am I going to eat today and how much should I have?

You're so busy focusing on the training and coping with work, diet, training that I like to have some of the stress taken away by being given an excellent diet. To me, if I can afford it, is money well spent.

Missus gets a bit bit pissy sometimes about the amount the food costs though. So I do my best to cut out all the extraneous over priced glamorous packaging supps that are meant to work wonders. Have to say I've saved a lot by getting back to basics.

[Phedder]

I'm currently studying to get into the personal training/fitness industry at Otago University and loving it. I chose to do a degree instead of some 6 month certificate because it covers the science behind the training in depth, and I find the anatomy and physiology aspects fascinating. I think many of the certificates tell the students what to prescribe to their clients to get certain results, without telling them the reasoning behind it, and expecting one thing to get the same results from many different people which just doesn't work. Each client is an individual and should be treated like one.

I agree it's very important to practice what you preach, and also to be somewhat of an inspiration to clients. As well as always doing what's best for them, not taking advantage of naivety etc. Some clients probably would require 2-3 sessions a week to keep them focused and have someone pushing themselves, but there's plenty of people that a monthly session to check progress and adjust things if required would be sufficient. A trainer who suggests the 2-3 sessions a week for everyone is greedy and just in it for money, not to actually be helping people and doing what's best for them.

[michaelk]

A trainer who recommends 2-3 sessions a week might truely believe that they can make the greatest difference to their clients with this hands on approach.

Whilst I have fortnightly sessions available, I'm the first to admit that I will have little to no direct impact on their training with this infrequency other than to ensure that they are doing it right every 14 days and potentially this is the motivation to get them in and getting results.

If I train anyone 3 times a week, I will have 6 times more effect than once a fortnight no matter who they are or what I do. That is 6 times the training intensity, 6 times the exercise efficiency and 6 times the guaranteed exercise frequency.

Make sure they teach you sales 101 down there in Dunedin too.

PT Manager,

Harbour Fitness

[Phedder]

I agree some people do need a hands on approach, and I wasn't denying that the more time with a trainer usually means better results. I was just saying that some people may not require such a hands on approach and to those people the cost isn't worth the small increase in results. I was trying to say that it's somewhat selfish for a trainer to expect 2-3 sessions a week with every client, just to get more money from them. I understand a trainer needs to market themselves to get clients, but I'd imagine they'd have to put what's best for the client first to keep them?

If I train anyone 3 times a week, I will have 6 times more effect than once a fortnight no matter who they are or what I do. That is 6 times the training intensity, 6 times the exercise efficiency and 6 times the guaranteed exercise frequency.

I hope you don't think I was meaning 1 session with a trainer is all the exercising they'd get? I'd still expect the clients to continue with a routine, but just have those fortnightly/monthly sessions to evaluate progress, ensure form is still correct and make any necessary adjustments.

[teamfatboy]

If I train anyone 3 times a week, I will have 6 times more effect than once a fortnight no matter who they are or what I do. That is 6 times the training intensity, 6 times the exercise efficiency and 6 times the guaranteed exercise frequency.

I hope you don't think I was meaning 1 session with a trainer is all the exercising they'd get? I'd still expect the clients to continue with a routine, but just have those fortnightly/monthly sessions to evaluate progress, ensure form is still correct and make any necessary adjustments.

I guess what I thought Mike K was saying was that some clients seeing him six times a fortnight will have six really intense sessions, which for many clients would be five more than they'd otherwise do, because they haven't learned how to be as hard on themselves as he is.

I think the answer is that some people need a PT for their motivation, others can get that from within. There's seldom a one-size-fits-all solution. I'd bet that if people could get six sessions for the price of one, they'd probably want to see their PT six times a fortnight!

Should PT's teach that sort of "head-ology" thing too, in addition to the form, technique, diet/nutrition, weight-cardio balance and all the other dimensions?

[courts]

I think the problem in this country is that there are far to many gym "trainers" that have no idea what they are on about.

from personal experience i have a mate who's partner has done a diploma in physical education or whatever it is that makes you a "pt", and believe me you would not want to be trained by a person who thinks that we as humans have no bowels and that it is in all the uni text books.

Im no dr but come again does our poo just drop out does it lol, book smarts is great and all but when it comes to the body and working it out it takes time to learn the "tricks of the trade" small adjustments work different muscles and books just do not teach you the subtleties of this...

[lynnevans]

Personal trainers can teach valuable new exercises.

Is this helpful for us??

because it looks too much risky.........

[ThePman]

I guess what I thought Mike K was saying was that some clients seeing him six times a fortnight will have six really intense sessions, which for many clients would be five more than they'd otherwise do, because they haven't learned how to be as hard on themselves as he is.

I come from a different school of thought, where it's not so much about pushing to maximum limits each session, but pushing when it's a good idea and holding back at other times. I went over that earlier, but I'm simply not of the belief that most people are going to benefit from the smash-muscles-to-exhaustion approach every time they set foot in the gym. Effort is needed, yes, but there are degrees.

Even then the need for pushing can vary. True, it is common that a lot of your average people will quit too soon if you let them, but on the other hand I've run into many (usually women) that will push too hard on the regular, and need to be roped in. Training to exhaustion for the sake of training to exhaustion isn't the goal of exercise.

That being the case, I can schedule the sessions that are most technique and coaching-dependent with me, and then give the lighter sessions to be done at other times.

I think the answer is that some people need a PT for their motivation, others can get that from within. There's seldom a one-size-fits-all solution. I'd bet that if people could get six sessions for the price of one, they'd probably want to see their PT six times a fortnight!

Should PT's teach that sort of "head-ology" thing too, in addition to the form, technique, diet/nutrition, weight-cardio balance and all the other dimensions?

Absolutely. In fact I don't think you can really separate one facet from the rest. The way I train/coach doesn't really work if you don't have the psychological factors in place. I need people to know how to grade their effort and be generally aware of their bodies and movements, and that's hand in hand with motivation.

To put it another way: if you generate a PR for a person each workout (or as many as is reasonable) and they don't have to look forward to being beaten into paste and sore for five days after each session, it's much easier to keep them motivated to come back.