Warm-up / stretching

[senn]

Hey guys I'm back 8)

Just wanted to know your opinion of what an ideal warmup should include, or whether you should have a warmup/stretches at all? I've been searching sites and reading bits here and there, and I'm still on the fence about this topic. Some people say it doesn't matter and I should avoid it, others say its a good way to warm up the body and prepare mentally also.

My goals are mainly to just gain mass btw if that counts at all.

Also, if you are one of the people who do recommend a warmup please list what this includes for you, what stretches you do and how long it takes. Thanks

[Jigga]

Having a rowing background where we warmed up/warmed down/stretched religiously I have a bit of an opinion on this. For the last while the only warmup I have been doing is a few light sets for my first exercise before getting into it. Now having lost my flexibility and having sustained a serious rotator cuff injury I regret it. I don't think you need to warmup and warm down on a treadmill but I think keeping flexible will keep you from sustaining long term injuries that dog you for the rest of your life. I think shoulder dislocations are a key stretch for benching and flexible hammys are really important for squating.

[cantygirl]

From what I have experienced and learnt over the years, it is safer to stretch after a weight training session, best to warm up on cardio equipment or count your first round of weights as a warmup but obviously keep it light and lots of reps.

[ThePman]

In as much as it matters:

static stretch/foam roll tonic/stabilizing muscles before

dynamic stretch phasic/working muscles and mobilize stiff joints before

static stretch/foam roll everything after

Getting 5-10 min. of general activity is probably a good idea, but unless I walk to the gym I never bother with this.

Doing lots of easy warmup sets with your exercise is a good idea, and I do this most of the time.

That's the guidelines, anyway. In reality the warmup/rehab stuff varies. The more often I lift, the less I seem to need it. If I'm really beat up, I do a lot more than days I feel pretty good.

[teamfatboy]

In as much as it matters:

• static stretch/foam roll tonic/stabilizing muscles before
  dynamic stretch phasic/working muscles and mobilize stiff joints before
  static stretch/foam roll everything after

Just out of curiosity, you'd not recommend dynamic stretches after workout ?

Any pointers to an effective web source of foam roll stretches, esp for lower back? I'm not so sure that the standard technique of "whatever pops up on the first page of Google" is effective, esp with over 200k returns :doh:

[Elite121]

My warmup takes 10-15 minutes starting with 10 soft tissue manipulations that involve either a foam roller,tennis ball or tiger stick, then I move onto 11 different mobility exercises. The SMR helps to flatten the muscles whilst stretching helps to lengthen the muscles and the mobility to move my joints through a normal range of motion with stability control and efficiency.

Of course SMR work may be not appropriate for some individuals, ie; obese clients and people suffering from Fibromyalgia to name a few.

Check this out

http://www.robertsontrainingsystems.com ... manual.pdf

There are others like Mike Boyle who do a great job, here he demonstrated some mobility drills:

http://www.tmuscle.com/readArticle.do?id=1778726

[Elite121]

From what I have experienced and learnt over the years, it is safer to stretch after a weight training session, best to warm up on cardio equipment or count your first round of weights as a warmup but obviously keep it light and lots of reps.

Why would it be safer to stretch after a weight training session?

NO NO NO we need to be getting people off cardio equipment for warming up and into more meaningful warm-ups such as SMR and mobility drills that improve the basic health of the musculosketal system, improving posture,performance and reduce injuries.

[Elite121]

From what I have experienced and learnt over the years, it is safer to stretch after a weight training session, best to warm up on cardio equipment or count your first round of weights as a warmup but obviously keep it light and lots of reps.

Why would it be safer to stretch after a weight training session?

NO NO NO we need to be getting people off cardio equipment for warming up and into more meaningful warm-ups such as SMR and mobility drills that improve the basic health of the musculosketal system, improving posture,performance and reduce injuries.

[Pseudonym]

Could someone explain the difference between static and dynamic stretches for those of us to whom stretching is a foreign concept? :shifty:

I'd thought that stretching a cold muscle was like stretching a piece of cold chewing gum - ie, risks damaging it. I don't know where I heard this, or if it's even accurate, but I liked the analogy so it stuck with me.

[Ronin]

Static Stretching

This is most commonly recomended after an exercise session when the body is warm. It is recomended that people breathe slowly, evenly and deeply, and hold the stretch for 10-30 seconds to a point of mild discomfort/tension, but not to a point of pain. It is suggested that the advantages of static stretching at the end of the exercise session include assisting with recovery, decreasing muscle soreness, and extending muscle length.

Dynamic Stretching

Dynamic stretching does not involve bouncing or jerky movements. Rather it is a controlled, moving stretch. Rhythmical movements occur throungh the full range of motion of the joint(s). This form of stretching may be useful in the warm-up period before an exercise session.

Taken directly from my course workbook. I'm not that much of a geek :pfft:

[Elite121]

There are a host of other stretching modalities for example, contract-relax contract, quasi eccentric isometric etc... its about using the right tool for the right job, all are beneficial whether for rehab or training, the most commonly talked about are static and dynamic wich have been explained by the previous poster.I think the older we get the more we need to do it.

Ive also heard the chewing gum analogy but since when is stretching dependent on breaking a sweat? Stretch cold and you will see how tight your muscles really are,! I'm personally okay with stretching cold if you can get your muscles to lengthen without warming them up, your gains in stretch may be more permanent.

[Phedder]

I walk 20 minutes to the gym and do warm up sets before every exercise. Push ups before anything chest related, for squats and deadlifts I do 25-30 reps just using the bar focusing on perfect technique and the full ROM I can use, Same with Bent over rows and anything shoulder related. I know that's not the best possible warm up but I feel it works great for me, yet to have any injuries that have stopped me missing more than one session. I think warm ups are as much of a psychological aspect as a physical aspect preparing yourself for training, so you should do with you feel comfortable doing, if you try a stretch or warm up activity and don't like it, don't do it. Find something else that you feel works for you.

[Elite121]

I walk 20 minutes to the gym and do warm up sets before every exercise. Push ups before anything chest related, for squats and deadlifts I do 25-30 reps just using the bar focusing on perfect technique and the full ROM I can use, Same with Bent over rows and anything shoulder related. I know that's not the best possible warm up but I feel it works great for me, yet to have any injuries that have stopped me missing more than one session. I think warm ups are as much of a psychological aspect as a physical aspect preparing yourself for training, so you should do with you feel comfortable doing, if you try a stretch or warm up activity and don't like it, don't do it. Find something else that you feel works for you.

Its not a matter of liking or disliking a particular warm-up routine, a strategic warm-up MUST include some form of SMR and mobility work....doing whats comfortable may work for now..... but think long term health benefits of your fascia,posture injury prevention and joint preservation. I cannot tell you how many people suffer from sort of joint and fascia restriction,scar adhesions etc... mobility and SMR MUST be a staple in ones warm-up regardless whether they like it or not.Not only will a strategic warmup improve the way your joints move over time,but they will produce small immediate improvements that will enable the individual to perform better in each session.

[Ronin]

Sorry, but, SMR = ......

[Elite121]

Self Myofascial release

[ThePman]

Any time I see "must" and it's not followed by something like "breathing", I pretty much stop listening.

I'm all about using smart warmups, but smart includes context. I'm as beat up a person as you'll find and I don't obsess over it to a huge degree. If there's a glaring problem, sure. If not, then it's really not something to obsess over for most people.

Tissue quality and flexibility/mobility is like anything else. You need a little for basic health and function but going overboard just like going overboard with strength, endurance, or anything else.

[Elite121]

Any time I see "must" and it's not followed by something like "breathing", I pretty much stop listening.

I'm all about using smart warmups, but smart includes context. I'm as beat up a person as you'll find and I don't obsess over it to a huge degree. If there's a glaring problem, sure. If not, then it's really not something to obsess over for most people.

Tissue quality and flexibility/mobility is like anything else. You need a little for basic health and function but going overboard just like going overboard with strength, endurance, or anything else.

Its not about being obsessive or going overboard. Some might need more prehab work others a bit less agree'd on that front but “An ounce of prevention is a pound of cure".... if you sleep with your foam roller next to your bed then thats obsessive.. or most of your workout consists of prehab work then there is a problem....some of the top minds in the strength and conditioning field ie; Boyle,Cook,Robertson,Cressey all advocate using SMR, mobility etc... are they obsessive I'd think not... and thats for healthy individuals and those suffering from a dysfunction...

Wether you like to admit it or not we actually agree in most part here

[steak]

What sort of training do you do E121? BB, PL, for a specific sport, fighter?

[Elite121]

What sort of training do you do E121? BB, PL, for a specific sport, fighter?

Steak I hope all is well at CB for you guys...lots of competition in that area.

I dont think i fit into any of those categories, I'm training to become stronger,fitter more athletic,improve performance and to rehabilitate my lower back to return to Deadlifting and squatting in the future. And most of all i train to feel good.

[ThePman]

some of the top minds in the strength and conditioning field ie; Boyle,Cook,Robertson,Cressey all advocate using SMR, mobility etc... are they obsessive I'd think not...

No offense to those guys because I've known most of them, but it's a bit of a stretch to call them "top minds in strength and conditioning". That's internet marketing more than fact. Not a dig at them, that's just the reality.

The point I was getting at is that your average guy/girl hitting the gym doesn't "have" to do any of this stuff, and it makes me laugh whenever somebody starts saying you "must" do anything when it's easy enough to point to a whole lot of examples that don't do any of it.

Use flexibility/mobility drills as needed. If you think a comprehensive warmup with every modality you can think of is essential, knock yourself out. I'm just providing the counterpoint that it's not as necessary as you've portrayed it. If you disagree, and I expect you will, that's fine too; nobody's telling you that you can't do what you're happy doing.

[steak]

Steak I hope all is well at CB for you guys...lots of competition in that area.

no there's not We are the only powerlifting gym on the coast, in fact between Aucks and god knows where north....the local "fitness centres" do nothing like we do.

Your a PT right? On the "coast"?

[Elite121]

some of the top minds in the strength and conditioning field ie; Boyle,Cook,Robertson,Cressey all advocate using SMR, mobility etc... are they obsessive I'd think not...

No offense to those guys because I've known most of them, but it's a bit of a stretch to call them "top minds in strength and conditioning". That's internet marketing more than fact. Not a dig at them, that's just the reality.

Actually I agree and disagree with you here, I was bitterly disappointed with my purchase of Functional Strengthcoach 3.0, as for Gray Cook IMO you are wrong he is one of the most well respected trainers going around, his FMS protocols (if you can call it that), have revolutionized the way we approach assessing clients/athletes.

The point I was getting at is that your average guy/girl hitting the gym doesn't "have" to do any of this stuff, and it makes me laugh whenever somebody starts saying you "must" do anything when it's easy enough to point to a whole lot of examples that don't do any of it.

If you've noticed there has been a major change in the attitude toward injury prevention...I still believe even for your average guy/girl they should still include SMR,mobility etc... its a small investment to make at the end of the day.

Use flexibility/mobility drills as needed. If you think a comprehensive warmup with every modality you can think of is essential, knock yourself out. I'm just providing the counterpoint that it's not as necessary as you've portrayed it. If you disagree, and I expect you will, that's fine too; nobody's telling you that you can't do what you're happy doing.

i see where you are coming from in a way...but we as a society have become more lazy, stressed out,spending lots more time sitting down etc... all having an impact on soft tissue quality and impacting negatively on the integrity of our joints.We will agree to disagree on this one....

[Elite121]

Steak I hope all is well at CB for you guys...lots of competition in that area.

no there's not We are the only powerlifting gym on the coast, in fact between Aucks and god knows where north....the local "fitness centres" do nothing like we do.

Your a PT right? On the "coast"?

Its all about getting bums on seats so yes there is competition , you guys are unique in that you are the only power-lifting gym on the coast...niche market I guess...Im glad you guys are there...goodness knows we don't need another commercial gym on the coast!!

Yeah on the coast doing PT.

[steak]

Its all about getting bums on seats so yes there is competition

.

ahhh no not for us. we have actually turned people away. CBC is a non profit society and therefore we get to choose who trains here and who doesnt. ..just for the record of course.

You seem to have some strong convictions re warm/stretch and no doubt training. Do you specialise in any particular area? How long have you been a PT and where did you get your training? Sorry for all the questions but Ive looked at some of the links and am interested.... then again Im interested in high powered firearms but seldom use them. :pfft:

[Elite121]

Its all about getting bums on seats so yes there is competition

.

ahhh no not for us. we have actually turned people away. CBC is a non profit society and therefore we get to choose who trains here and who doesnt. ..just for the record of course.

You seem to have some strong convictions re warm/stretch and no doubt training. Do you specialise in any particular area? How long have you been a PT and where did you get your training? Sorry for all the questions but Ive looked at some of the links and am interested.... then again Im interested in high powered firearms but seldom use them. :pfft:

That last comment was great found that LOL, so you get to choose who trains at your gym... unique situation there Dame....I popped up a while back to come and check you guys out...it was in the A.M though. Yes my convictions are strong....perhaps the warm-up/stretch aspect more so..as Ive had some unfortunate injuries in the past and feel very passionate about this subject and many others... I'm actually very open minded and like to take a multi disciplinary approach to training and nutrition... If you can teach me something I'm game!!

Ive been a PT since January 2010, but been around for a while having worked at other gyms such as, The Leisure Centre,Les Mils,Milenium Institute, and currently a PT at Key Fitness. My training was at AUT and Academy New Zealand...Ive had to spend some time unlearning the stuff from both places...and continue to upskill through various courses, such as CHEK Institute etc.. Really I'm an an absolute Infovore..part passion part addiction.

I cant say that I specialize in any area just yet...have not crafted my niche so to speak..at the moment I'm training whoever whenever....however my goals are to study Functional Diagnostic Nutrition and Rehabilitation..that is my goal anyway...for now I'm like everybody else here learning,asking questions and debating....the more I learn the more i realize I don't really know anything.

Not a problem with the questions...I'd like to drop by sometime and say hello.