Experiances with the law

[jimjim83]

actually jimjim is correct - the fact is, saying something isnt yours, or that you dont know how it got there, is simply not good enough. as long as the 5-0 has 'reasonable grounds', the oniss is on YOU to provide evidence to the contrary.

And thats the way it has to be, do you think shappelle corby was happy in that thai prison? she tried the"i dont know how that dak got in my bag", and of course it didnt hold up in court!

If the cops pull you over, and find something stashed in your boot, the oniss is on YOU to provide an alternative. otherwise every c*nt could just deny knowledge, and get off their charges.

Feel free to test your theory out though, say hi to tiny tim in paremoremo for me!

:clap:

People dont break into house to leave illegal stuff in common areas.

[musclenz]

From my understanding the fine for possession of steriods under the medicines act for a first & even a second offence is around $500 plus court costs. Its the criminal record that is more the issue esp if tying to get into the US & some foreign countries, applying for jobs in NZ & coming back into NZ if you get away & being hounded for a couple of hours while customs give you the third degree. What they deem as enough for supply is another thing & I think the penalty is up to $15k & or 3 months in prison. Check out the Act if interested

[jimjim83]

From my understanding the fine for possession of steriods under the medicines act for a first & even a second offence is around $500 plus court costs. Its the criminal record that is more the issue esp if tying to get into the US & some foreign countries, applying for jobs in NZ & coming back into NZ if you get away & being hounded for a couple of hours while customs give you the third degree. What they deem as enough for supply is another thing & I think the penalty is up to $15k & or 3 months in prison. Check out the Act if interested

The fine is up to the judge on the day but the maximum would be around $500 much liuke class C, plus court costs, but its very rear to be fined the maximum amount. It the stigma of the charge that would potentialy be more of a cost in ones life.

[Calvin]

It's not about being stupid jimjim, it's about the onus of proof as to who that stuff belongs to. It is plausible to say a bunch of people came to your house the day before for a party and you didn't know everyone and someone left a bag or whatever there. Sure if you have all your shit out on the table in plain sight then it's hard to say that but if it's just in a bag or something then you can argue that point.

The police are constantly frustrated by our RIGHTS as citizens! If they could just assume without proving ownership then that would be a different story... but fortunately we do still have rights!

I didnt say you were stupid I said wrong and Ill say it again you are wrong.

constantly fustrated by your rights as a citizen come on man you dont think they care that much do you. Police powers of search and arrest are fairly powerful if you think the excuse of "having a party and some stranger left it in my lounge" are enough to bamboozle the police, you should try that one I bet it doesnt get you far. :doh:

Jimjim - Harry does have a point. Just because police don't believe you and you are arrested DOES NOT mean you will end up with a conviction. In a crinimal court the standard is 'Innocent to proven guilty'. NOT on the 'balance of probabilities' as in civil courts. There needs to be no doubt that the gear is yours in order for you to be convicted. This will be measured by the strength of the prosecutors case.

In theory Harry could be right. Common sense would most likely say you are right. But no doubt if you have a good lawyer you might not be convicted.

[Calvin]

And the biggest issue should not be the fine. The criminal conviction should be your biggest worry.

[jimjim83]

Use it as a defence and tell us how you get on. If it doesnt work blame aliens or ghosts the police will have to prove that they dont exists. You guys are so tricky!! :doh:

[bob26]

Use it as a defence and tell us how you get on. If it doesnt work blame aliens or ghosts the police will have to prove that they dont exists. You guys are so tricky!! :doh:

seriously bro, its not mine ay. I think jim jim left it here. :shock:

:nod:

[jimjim83]

Use it as a defence and tell us how you get on. If it doesnt work blame aliens or ghosts the police will have to prove that they dont exists. You guys are so tricky!! :doh:

seriously bro, its not mine ay. I think jim jim left it here. :shock:

:nod:

My set up worked! Now give it back....

[Pee]

You would think that people who break the law, no matter how inane it seems would educate themselves about the repercussions. Clearly not lol...

Some people dont plan on getting caught.

:pfft:

HarryB I didnt miss the point, your just wrong.

Somebody must have left it there? Come on how stupid do you think the justice system is.

:shock:

Umm that's actually correct, the law protects everyone, you are innocent until proven guilty, the police & prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had knowledge and received / purchased / used / distributed the items to get a conviction, Seems insane I know, but who's to say a sporting competitor didn't leave the items their to frame you and try to ruin your sporting career?

It's not like its a huge bust & they nailed Keyser Söze, its a $500 fine at the most, you think they are really going to waste policing time to get you, you put up a reasonable explanation and they will drop it, shit people get off breaking into cars if they have a set of keys in their pocket!!!

Thought it was my car dude.....

Pee

[jimjim83]

Some people dont plan on getting caught.

:pfft:

HarryB I didnt miss the point, your just wrong.

Somebody must have left it there? Come on how stupid do you think the justice system is.

:shock:

Umm that's actually correct, the law protects everyone, you are innocent until proven guilty, the police & prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you had knowledge and received / purchased / used / distributed the items to get a conviction, Seems insane I know, but who's to say a sporting competitor didn't leave the items their to frame you and try to ruin your sporting career?

It's not like its a huge bust & they nailed Keyser Söze, its a $500 fine at the most, you think they are really going to waste policing time to get you, you put up a reasonable explanation and they will drop it, shit people get off breaking into cars if they have a set of keys in their pocket!!!

Thought it was my car dude.....

Pee

Another bush lawyer raises its ugly head. :doh:

I get the feeling that a handful of you live together in a special needs group home because "Its not mine officer somebody broke in and left it there to frame me and ruin my sports career" Is the most retarded thing Ive ever heard. :-s

[Pee]

I prefer Jungle Lawyer,

And their is a distinct difference between ignorantia juris non excusat and your understanding and demonstration of ignorance.

Pee.

[jimjim83]

I prefer Jungle Lawyer,

And their is a distinct difference between ignorantia juris non excusat and your understanding and demonstration of ignorance.

Pee.

I think that proves your a class A fuckwit

[Pee]

I prefer Jungle Lawyer,

And their is a distinct difference between ignorantia juris non excusat and your understanding and demonstration of ignorance.

Pee.

I think that proves your a class A fuckwit

LOL, I don't think that will hold up in court, actually you have not even offered a reason as to why you don't think that defence would work, your just assuming that because an ex-security guard passed a medical and spent 12 months in police academy they are experts and willing to prosecute minor drug infringements.

The police don't give a shit about getting it off the streets, they practise financial Law in most cases, Risk/Reward, what's the point in wasting resources to "Prove" the alleged offender guilty for something where the overall reward is a $500 fine, they simply won't do it, unless your an idiot and plead guilty when you piss your pants in the interview room.

Lets be honest unless your a complete douche (and I can only assume you are) there is f*ck all chance of getting caught unless your doing other illegal activities, in which case they are likely what has tipped the cops off and probably why they are targeting you, if that's the case then any defence won't even be heard for the steroids, and they will likely bump the charges up to possession with intent to distribute.

But what do I know, im just an idiot like you posting on some forum with no actual proof any of this will work, but at least its better then saying "Oh yea I did it dude, please record my conviction, can you validate my parking and sign my dole form to say this was a job interview for the correctional department"

Wank.

[jimjim83]

"douche" , how old are you 15? watching a little too much south park?

Did you get your vast legal knowledge from your 5th form legal studies class?

Your obviously a fuckwit, if the police search a house and find something illegal whether if its drugs, stolen property or a body they dont just hope for the best and ask if its yours and if you say no leave it at that.

It dosent matter if its in a common area or not and denial or the mysterious stranger trying to fit you up by planting in in your house wont work when it goes to court.

As for financial law what are you on about do you think the police get a cut of the $500 fine, which is a maximum, and is more likely to be closer to $100.

If this was the case then then there would be lock ups under the summary offences act would there?

Fuckwit

[samoan_muscle]

"douche" , how old are you 15? watching a little too much south park?

Did you get your vast legal knowledge from your 5th form legal studies class?

Your obviously a fuckwit, if the police search a house and find something illegal whether if its drugs, stolen property or a body they dont just hope for the best and ask if its yours and if you say no leave it at that.

It dosent matter if its in a common area or not and denial or the mysterious stranger trying to fit you up by planting in in your house wont work when it goes to court.

As for financial law what are you on about do you think the police get a cut of the $500 fine, which is a maximum, and is more likely to be closer to $100.

If this was the case then then there would be lock ups under the summary offences act would there?

Fuckwit

Somewhat agree with you Jimjim.

"Common Area" is probably the biggest crock of fucking bullshit I've heard.

Your house, your property, your responsibility.

HarryB. when you say NZ is your area of expertise, what exactly do you mean by that?

[Pee]

Nah I got it from 4 years study at the University of Oxford with a major in Criminal Law & Commonwealth law, and a practising member of NZBA, but that doesn't really mean shit does it, cause I am not going to post my name to prove it, and you cannot prove im full of shit.

Your obviously a fuckwit, if the police search a house and find something illegal whether if its drugs, stolen property or a body they dont just hope for the best and ask if its yours and if you say no leave it at that.

Yes and they can just knock on your door and search your house, where do you live north Korea?

As for financial law what are you on about do you think the police get a cut of the $500 fine, which is a maximum, and is more likely to be closer to $100.

If this was the case then then there would be lock ups under the summary offences act would there?

Yea cops make their career on a bust of some scrawny guy they video taped buying some riods!!, use your head for 10 minutes, the world isnt peachy roses where cops are honest, and they want to get every bad guy off the streets.

Its quota's & convictions, they get there new patrol car for the year and promotions from making the numbers look good, not from locking up the odd idiot.

If your so naive you think that conviction rates v charges laid are 100% your living in a dream world, NZ Police will not even publish these figures. Its somewhere between 80-85% get a conviction, that saying how many get off without charges even being laid, and how many are getting caught?

Again you have no actual argument, just that cops are great crime fighting warriors who always get there man, and assuming this crime rates will drop to 0 in a few years due to there superior investigative, interrogation and prosecution skills and criminal's will probably all go to Uni and do an arts degree.....

Who's the fuckwit.

Summary Offences Act 1981

LOL what are you doing the NZIS Certificate in Pre Police Proficiency?

Officer?

[Pseudonym]

Guys, the debate is fine. The name-calling is not. :naughty:

[jimjim83]

You added the 1981 so how about no misquoting. I never said that the police didnt need a warrant to enter you house are we reading the same thread?

"douche" , how old are you 15? watching a little too much south park?

Did you get your vast legal knowledge from your 5th form legal studies class?

Your obviously a fuckwit, if the police search a house and find something illegal whether if its drugs, stolen property or a body they dont just hope for the best and ask if its yours and if you say no leave it at that.

It dosent matter if its in a common area or not and denial or the mysterious stranger trying to fit you up by planting in in your house wont work when it goes to court.

As for financial law what are you on about do you think the police get a cut of the $500 fine, which is a maximum, and is more likely to be closer to $100.

If this was the case then then there would be lock ups under the summary offences act would there?

Fuckwit

Somewhat agree with you Jimjim.

"Common Area" is probably the biggest crock of fucking bullshit I've heard.

Your house, your property, your responsibility.

HarryB. when you say NZ is your area of expertise, what exactly do you mean by that?

The debate was over wether "Common Area" was a excuse. And as samoan muscle said above.

Again you have no actual argument, just that cops are great crime fighting warriors who always get there man, and assuming this crime rates will drop to 0 in a few years due to there superior investigative, interrogation and prosecution skills and criminal's will probably all go to Uni and do an arts degree.....

What the hell are you on about?

And Pseudonym the name calling is for added fun :pfft:

[Pee]

The debate was over wether "Common Area" was a excuse. And as samoan muscle said above.

Again they must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that whatever you are charged with was infact in your possession, I.E you had knowledge of it.

In that case, agreed its fairly flimsy, Unless you had a tip-off that you where getting raided (and didn't bother to remove the items) what's the odds of you having a party?

And someone who is partying and pissing up all the time is unlikely to be on AAS, I really can't see someone storing there gear in a common area and then wiping down the vials for prints and getting rid of needles and DNA evidence (It wouldn't really ever come to dna, but prints, yea easy).

So if you had a viable excuse that the common area was insecure to the public, anyone could access it (apart from common owners), and they had no physical proof of you using or touching it, then yea you could get off the charges. Or avoid a recorded conviction with a small fine.

"Common Area" is probably the biggest crock of fucking bullshit I've heard.

Your house, your property, your responsibility.

Well no, because the legal definition of Common Area is an area NOT owned by an individual owner, hence its common, stair cases, car parks, lobby's and complex swimming pools.

So the easiest way is to store it in the next door neighbours garden gnome and shoot up early morning before he gets the paper...

Or just do what most loser dumb arse criminal's do, rat out your supplier, friends, family and anyone that might have an idea to get the charges dropped. :doh: , then watch your back.

[Darwinstef]

Its quota's & convictions, they get there new patrol car for the year and promotions from making the numbers look good, not from locking up the odd idiot.

If your so naive you think that conviction rates v charges laid are 100% your living in a dream world, NZ Police will not even publish these figures. Its somewhere between 80-85% get a conviction, that saying how many get off without charges even being laid, and how many are getting caught?

The first paragraph to be frank is insulting to the frontline cop on the street who doesn't give a toss about quota's (despite what you would believe). As for conviction rates I have no idea what they are, but I have lost 3 cases in court in 8 years, and they were guilty as sin, just found a back door out of it That puts me around 99%, if you haven't done the crime you shouldn't be off to court.

Personally I have never come across anyone in possession of roids but I would imagaine I would treat it much the same if I caught someone with a joint, clip around the ear and told not to be stupid. Common sense should prevail.

Besides, get yourself a good enough lawyer and you can get away with murder

[jimjim83]

Its quota's & convictions, they get there new patrol car for the year and promotions from making the numbers look good, not from locking up the odd idiot.

If your so naive you think that conviction rates v charges laid are 100% your living in a dream world, NZ Police will not even publish these figures. Its somewhere between 80-85% get a conviction, that saying how many get off without charges even being laid, and how many are getting caught?

The first paragraph to be frank is insulting to the frontline cop on the street who doesn't give a toss about quota's (despite what you would believe). As for conviction rates I have no idea what they are, but I have lost 3 cases in court in 8 years, and they were guilty as sin, just found a back door out of it That puts me around 99%, if you haven't done the crime you shouldn't be off to court.

Personally I have never come across anyone in possession of roids but I would imagaine I would treat it much the same if I caught someone with a joint, clip around the ear and told not to be stupid. Common sense should prevail.

Besides, get yourself a good enough lawyer and you can get away with murder

Cough DAVID BAIN Cough Cough GWAZE Cough. Lawyer/Jury

The only reason you would come across somebody with gear is they have drawn attention to themselves for some other reason, more than likley a warrant. Guys that use gear are for the most part not injecting down ally ways like junkies therefore not drawing attention to ones self is the key.

Clips around the ear will get you an interveiw with the IPCA. :naughty: :pfft:

[Pee]

Ill take that as acceptance of defeat lol.

Without trying to be a dick (which im sure you think I am), its just proves the point that legal terms can be taken either way, I realise that alot thought "Common Area" meant front door area, hall way and whatnot in a normal house, which is bullshit, that term mainly refers to apartments and complexes although could be argued your drive way and letter box if you had a good lawyer.

Also the car boot theory..... yea f*ck off mate, you would need a chewbacca defence to even try and get that one past a judge.

Being realistic, Darwinstef I don't mean to offend you, but front line cop mistakes and mishandling, and ill admit possibly with the best of intention is the bread and butter of defence lawyers.

In reality most steroid users would never fall into this category, and even if they did could not afford $1200 an hour for a defence case.

Besides, get yourself a good enough lawyer and you can get away with murder

I hear that, OJ anyone?

Pee

[jimjim83]

Ill take that as acceptance of defeat lol.

Without trying to be a dick (which im sure you think I am), its just proves the point that legal terms can be taken either way, I realise that alot thought "Common Area" meant front door area, hall way and whatnot in a normal house, which is bullshit, that term mainly refers to apartments and complexes although could be argued your drive way and letter box if you had a good lawyer.

Also the car boot theory..... yea f*ck off mate, you would need a chewbacca defence to even try and get that one past a judge.

Being realistic, Darwinstef I don't mean to offend you, but front line cop mistakes and mishandling, and ill admit possibly with the best of intention is the bread and butter of defence lawyers.

In reality most steroid users would never fall into this category, and even if they did could not afford $1200 an hour for a defence case.

Besides, get yourself a good enough lawyer and you can get away with murder

I hear that, OJ anyone?

Pee

Legal aid is the bread and butter of most lawyers. :pfft:

[bob26]

f*ck this, i am off to a common area to do something illegal ! :pfft:

great thread. :doh:

[ParnellPanther]

The penalty for posession is if not a warning with an occurence logged in the police system, a $500 fine or 3 months imprisonment.

Your more likely to get a warning and walk out of the cop shop with a smile on your face if you give up your supplier and his associates.