Injuries..Are they inevitable?

[groovy]

I was just wondering if serious injuries are inevitable while

bodybuilding/powerlifting/fitness careers?

(sports not really as it sometimes involves others injuring you, but i guess you can include them if you want)

Or if you DONT get injured does that means your not pushing yourself hard enough?

Or is it possible to progress, getting stronger, bigger, faster without serious injuries?

When i say injuries, i guess it means you cant workout (partially/fully) for few months or longer because its something you did while your working out.

Some stories/experiences would be good if you dont mind sharing.

Hope that makes sense :pfft: . Its just a general topic as i have been reading few posts where some people have been injured and cant workout for a while. :doh:

Cheers

[nate225]

Injuries will happen, it's inevitable...... HOWEVER!

A little planning goes a long way in terms of minimising the impact of injuries. How often you trash you lower back (with squats, deads, standing overhead press etc) comes to mind. Overuse injuries in the shoulders & elbows seem to feature a lot as well.

So cycling exercises and intensities to allow recovery seems to make sense to me without having done any research to back this up. WSB etc take this approach (with the research to support it no doubt).

I think the concept of "Pre-hab" rates a mention also. I looked at the number of PLers who were forced to retire from competition due to rotator cuff & back injuries and made the decision years ago not to join that extensive list. I implemented proactive sessions around rotators and core strength and to date (touch wood!) I've been pretty lucky.

Nate

[mr natural]

the niggles i've had have mostly been caused outside the gym, some niggles i've had have been made better by the gym, overall i think your reasonably ok if you dont do anything to silly

[Nik Antunovich]

I think they are inevitable.

You can do heaps to try to prevent them but they are always likely to occur if you are pushing yourself to the nth degree. I can't think of any professional sports person who has not, at some point during their career, had an injury of some sort.

Perhaps 'luck' has something to do with it; sometimes accidents occur because they are purely accidents, they couldn't have been avoided because you couldn't see it coming.

Two weekends ago I was playing a 'gentleman's' sport, I play hard (pushed myself as much as you can in cricket), and screwed my AC joint whilst colliding with someone's shin at speed, with out stretched arms whilst diving. Was it avoidable? Maybe, human error is a constant so maybe it wasn't. I didn't see the dude and it was my call, I called, but shit happens. But I do have a suspicion that if I didn't do rotator cuff and shoulder stability work that my injury would be worse.

I've never been a power lifter but can imagine accidents happen. I've never hurt myself in a gym but perhaps it is only time before I do (my mantra is good form before weight always). And people with fitness careers are usually very active sorts so I'd say hell yes, they are prone!

[AlBundy]

Alot of factors involved. The likely answer is yes, you will injure yourself at some point.

[ThePman]

Pretty much what Nate said. You can definitely take steps to minimize injuries, and I wish I'd known that 10 years ago. It's always easier to prevent than to heal after the fact, because once something's hurt odds are it's never getting back to 100%.

That said, anything like PL or strongman is bound to hurt you no matter how careful you are. It's just part of the training and part of the competition. All you can do is be ready for it and have strategies in place to work around it.

In my case, most of my workouts are strategies to work around injuries

[Growth]

It's always easier to prevent than to heal after the fact, because once something's hurt odds are it's never getting back to 100%.

Absolute gospel right there.

[Old Bull]

Agree with Nate and Pman,

Here is an article by Justin Keogh BHMS (hons) on Powerlifting/Weightlifting Injuries.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles ... juries.pdf

[tinytraps]

IMO if your pushing it hard your going to accumulate some little aches and pains it comes with the territory. Serious injuries happen for various reasons and one of them could be going for that PB squat or going for that extra rep on our bench but in most cases they are preventable.

[Nik Antunovich]

Perfect example, David Beckham just screwed his achilles. Being a professional athlete he would have to be doing everything right as far a muscle/tendon care, no? Accidental? Preventable? Nope, inevitable!

[nate225]

Perfect example, David Beckham just screwed his achilles. Being a professional athlete he would have to be doing everything right as far a muscle/tendon care, no? Accidental? Preventable? Nope, inevitable!

Not always....... I would suggest many top athletes don't actually do everything in their power to prevent injuries. How may actively seek assessment of their posture & muscular development on a regular basis? How many act when a physio tells them they're getting injured due to muscle imbalances?

I don't know the answer to the above, but what I do see is professional sportmen (and probably woman to a lesser extent) getting on the piss after games (or before in some cases) when they've got a recovery session the next day and a training session in less than 48 hours.

In these cases it shows athletes not doing "everything" to avoid injuries and maintain optimal fitness / recovery, and I would suggest skipping other rehab session that weren't seen as important ('cos it feels all right now bro!) happens just as often!

Just my 10 cents....

[Nik Antunovich]

Nate, I hear you. I guess it's all about how individuals and how serious they are about their game.

Biggest incidence with muscle imbalance seems to be hams getting pulled, guys would rather squat or do extensions than curls for sure; how many show off their large hamstrings or how much they can leg curl? Haven't heard anyone raving about theirs yet.

Achilles is a funny injury though. They just seem to go. Probably due to lots of stress with little recovery.

[nate225]

Nate, I hear you. I guess it's all about how individuals and how serious they are about their game.

Biggest incidence with muscle imbalance seems to be hams getting pulled, guys would rather squat or do extensions than curls for sure; how many show off their large hamstrings or how much they can leg curl? Haven't heard anyone raving about theirs yet.

Achilles is a funny injury though. They just seem to go. Probably due to lots of stress with little recovery.

Funly enough I know hammy tears...... :pfft: Mine were a result of poor glute activation (and some flexibility issues), and I tore all 3 (2 were at once!) while on the concept 2 rower! :pfft: Anyway after lots of stretching and activation exercises I'm well sorted.

Achilles probably doesn't give as much warning as other tendons. As an aside there is a good 'study' on bicep tendon tears in strongman, in which all reported forearm/elbow pain prior to the tear. My take from this was address minor niggles lest they are a signal of whats to come!

[cantygirl]

I put all my injuries down to overuse. Each and every one of them is through gym training, both by myself and through a highly reputable PT. My trainer told me she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it". Ive felt each injury at the time it occured, some ive sought help from physio, and others ive pushed through. To be honest, I don't think any of my injuries were avoidable. The sooner you seek help the better, generally if left, you tend to develop other injuries pretty quickly because your skeletal alignment is out.

[nate225]

I put all my injuries down to overuse. Each and every one of them is through gym training, both by myself and through a highly reputable PT. My trainer told me she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it". Ive felt each injury at the time it occured, some ive sought help from physio, and others ive pushed through. To be honest, I don't think any of my injuries were avoidable. The sooner you seek help the better, generally if left, you tend to develop other injuries pretty quickly because your skeletal alignment is out.

A couple of comments Canty,

You say all of your injuries are from overuse, but that none of your injuries were avoidable? To my way of thinking thats a contradiction in terms, unless of course you have no choice but to over use yourself to acheive whatever goal you have for yourself.

Your trainer saying she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it" could be either a positive or a negative. Training hard vs training smart is a no brainer, and as I don't know which applies I won't pass judgement but certainly worth considering.

I absolutely agree with you on seeking help as soon as possible, and that one injury (often minor, overuse types) leads to another (often a more acute injury and often a major, eg muscle/tendon tears).

Nate

[Nik Antunovich]

The sooner you seek help the better, generally if left, you tend to develop other injuries pretty quickly because your skeletal alignment is out.

Absolutely. I am impatient as hell and crawling the walls but I'm going to take it easy with my current recovery. There is just no need to jeopardise years of training to come with a niggle and possibly worse just because I'm impatient now.

[EMC]

I put all my injuries down to overuse. Each and every one of them is through gym training, both by myself and through a highly reputable PT. My trainer told me she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it". Ive felt each injury at the time it occured, some ive sought help from physio, and others ive pushed through. To be honest, I don't think any of my injuries were avoidable. The sooner you seek help the better, generally if left, you tend to develop other injuries pretty quickly because your skeletal alignment is out.

A couple of comments Canty,

You say all of your injuries are from overuse, but that none of your injuries were avoidable? To my way of thinking thats a contradiction in terms, unless of course you have no choice but to over use yourself to acheive whatever goal you have for yourself.

Your trainer saying she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it" could be either a positive or a negative. Training hard vs training smart is a no brainer, and as I don't know which applies I won't pass judgement but certainly worth considering.

I absolutely agree with you on seeking help as soon as possible, and that one injury (often minor, overuse types) leads to another (often a more acute injury and often a major, eg muscle/tendon tears).

Nate

i agree with nate

there was some good specific imformation about injuries in the pdf old bull posted. cantygirl its hard to imagine that all your injuries were unavoidable unless they were all acute injuries, i.e strains and sprains of the muscles/tendons and cartilage. if your being trained that hard then its counterproductive. was your training high volume or low volume? when someone says 'take it' it sounds like theyre almost pushing your body beyond its limits on a constant basis which isnt any good for strength training and is even worse for bodybuilders, as the volume is generally higher.

nate do you define hamstring flexibility as stretching your hams often to avoid tightness and restriction of mobility or actually progressively stretching them out further to improve your flexibility? i dont have problems with hamstring flexibility but im curious to see if i should be increasing my flexibility as a part of my stretch routine?

[EMC]

I put all my injuries down to overuse. Each and every one of them is through gym training, both by myself and through a highly reputable PT. My trainer told me she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it". Ive felt each injury at the time it occured, some ive sought help from physio, and others ive pushed through. To be honest, I don't think any of my injuries were avoidable. The sooner you seek help the better, generally if left, you tend to develop other injuries pretty quickly because your skeletal alignment is out.

A couple of comments Canty,

You say all of your injuries are from overuse, but that none of your injuries were avoidable? To my way of thinking thats a contradiction in terms, unless of course you have no choice but to over use yourself to acheive whatever goal you have for yourself.

Your trainer saying she loves to train me hard as she has few clients who can "take it" could be either a positive or a negative. Training hard vs training smart is a no brainer, and as I don't know which applies I won't pass judgement but certainly worth considering.

I absolutely agree with you on seeking help as soon as possible, and that one injury (often minor, overuse types) leads to another (often a more acute injury and often a major, eg muscle/tendon tears).

Nate

i agree with nate

there was some good specific imformation about injuries in the pdf old bull posted. cantygirl its hard to imagine that all your injuries were unavoidable unless they were all acute injuries, i.e strains and sprains of the muscles/tendons and cartilage. if your being trained that hard then its counterproductive. was your training high volume or low volume? when someone says 'take it' it sounds like theyre almost pushing your body beyond its limits on a constant basis which isnt any good for strength training and is even worse for bodybuilders, as the volume is generally higher.

nate do you define hamstring flexibility as stretching your hams often to avoid tightness and restriction of mobility or actually progressively stretching them out further to improve your flexibility? i dont have problems with hamstring flexibility but im curious to see if i should be increasing my flexibility as a part of my stretch routine?

[groovy]

Agree with Nate and Pman,

Here is an article by Justin Keogh BHMS (hons) on Powerlifting/Weightlifting Injuries.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles ... juries.pdf

Hi Oldbull. thanks for link. I found this on the last page of the document....

______________________________________________________________

In an attempt to determine the relative risk and benefits of common lower back assistance exercises, Burnett and colleagues quantified erector muscle

forces and lumbar spine compressive and shear forces produced by weightlifters performing the clean, snatch, Romanian deadlift, bent-over row, conventional deadlift, and straight-legged good morning. The relative risk of injury (as indicated by the compressive and shear forces) was greatest in the straight-legged good morning and the bent-over row, even though their potential to increase lower back strength, as indicated by the erector spinae force, was less than that of the other exercises. Because the risk-to-benefit ratio for the straightlegged good morning and the bent-over row appears to be too high, these are two exercises you should scrap from your training.

______________________________________________________________

Maybe its still too early in the morning for me or i just dont get it.

But could some1 please explain in novice terms the BOLD part?

Because i always thought Good morning and bent over row are great back exercises. (if done with correct form ofcourse).

[biggurl27]

In 20 years of going to the gym I've only ever injured myself running around drunk Good topic though, some may say accidental injuries are inevitable, I tend to just listen to my body and ensure I know my limitations, push the weights up every week/fortnight/month whatever works at the time and have the BEST FORM possible. And I'm not a sissy with my weights

[samoan_muscle]

And I'm not a sissy with my weights

Says you...

[Nik Antunovich]

I always thought you should have a slight bend in your knees when performing bent over row rather than straight locked out knees. The text posted by Groovy says otherwise. Am I wrong?

Groovy, there a probably more qualified answers but to me it said that the straight legged exercises increased the risk of injury even though they were not the best for increasing lower back strength. The text revolves around exercises for lower back strength only and does not mention the upper back.

The bold bit says that you should not do bent over rows or good mornings for lower back strength as the risk of injury is greater than any benefit gained from performing these excercies.

I personally don't do good mornings but do use bent over rows with no issue thus far. I don't do bent over rows for lower back strength; still that doesn't mean I won't get an injury as they say I could. I think the main thing to come out of that is to use other exercises to strengthen lower back muscles so as stabilise that area of your back while performing bent over rows or good mornings.

[nate225]

Agree with Nate and Pman,

Here is an article by Justin Keogh BHMS (hons) on Powerlifting/Weightlifting Injuries.

http://www.powerhousegym.co.nz/articles ... juries.pdf

Hi Oldbull. thanks for link. I found this on the last page of the document....

______________________________________________________________

In an attempt to determine the relative risk and benefits of common lower back assistance exercises, Burnett and colleagues quantified erector muscle

forces and lumbar spine compressive and shear forces produced by weightlifters performing the clean, snatch, Romanian deadlift, bent-over row, conventional deadlift, and straight-legged good morning. The relative risk of injury (as indicated by the compressive and shear forces) was greatest in the straight-legged good morning and the bent-over row, even though their potential to increase lower back strength, as indicated by the erector spinae force, was less than that of the other exercises. Because the risk-to-benefit ratio for the straightlegged good morning and the bent-over row appears to be too high, these are two exercises you should scrap from your training.

______________________________________________________________

Maybe its still too early in the morning for me or i just dont get it.

But could some1 please explain in novice terms the BOLD part?

Because i always thought Good morning and bent over row are great back exercises. (if done with correct form ofcourse).

My take (and Justin himself would be better to answer this question) is to avoid doing good mornings with locked knees. This is the type of GM you see in a pump class e.g locked knees, majority of weight taken by lower backs small muscles.

When moving any weight with GMs you keep your knees 'bent' and drive with hips (kinda like a DL or the "midnight manoeuvre"), using hips, glutes, hammies along with lower back to a lesser degree.

The grammar makes it hard to be sure what is meant by bent over row, but I think the reference to bent knees is what is meant. Makes sense to me not to do BOR's with any kind of heavy weight with locked knees.

Hope that answers? Otherwise go straight to Justin @ AUT?

[groovy]

Thanks Nik and Nate. Makes sense. Always Bend knees while performing GM's and BOR's. Cheers for that.

[biggurl27]

And I'm not a sissy with my weights

Says you...

Bloody cheeky darkies