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Tribulus And ZMA

olympia

By olympia
in Diet & nutrition

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drizzt Veteran member

drizzt

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that rather than look for a good "type" or brand of ZMA (I'm not sure if there is any fundamental difference between them at all), the most important thing to look out for is the Z:M:A ratio you're getting.

I believe the ratio (in mg) is 30:450:11 (Z:M:B6)

I recently finished a bottle of NFS branded ZMA which had this ratio, and that was the reason I bought it. Next time, I'll look at putting my own together - waaay cheaper by the looks of it!

Also on the tribulus, I believe you can order it for dirt cheap from Bodybuilding.com (half the price it can be had for here, incl shipping from the states). I just got the higher power stuff (bodybuilding.com's brand) last time, which I stacked with the ZMA and Novedex XT.

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Chemo Senior member

Chemo

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Hey drizz how you finding the novedex? Im 2/3 of the way through a halodrol cycle, I wish I had gotten 2 packs as I am just feeling the benfits now. I would love to pair this up with Novedex. Far better than Trib.

and HaNs Red seal doesnt have the optimal ratios, but yeah its still good. I used to use them before moving on to the sports ones. I'd recommend trying an BB branded one, I found i had an even better sleep after only taking 2 or 3, first two night i took 4 and i was trippen on the rainbow boat from willy wonka :3

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Pseudonym Veteran member

Pseudonym

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the most important thing to look out for is the Z:M:A ratio you're getting.

That seems to be the generally accepted wisdom, but I've never been able to find out why. Is it just that the study showing ZMA's effectiveness used this ratio, so everyone else has followed suit? Or is there an actual reason for it?

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Specter Senior member

Specter

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the most important thing to look out for is the Z:M:A ratio you're getting.

That seems to be the generally accepted wisdom, but I've never been able to find out why. Is it just that the study showing ZMA's effectiveness used this ratio, so everyone else has followed suit? Or is there an actual reason for it?

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?p=37816#p37816
Musashi ZMA is not ZMA - as it says it is "based" on the patented ZMA formula which has been shown in studies (admittadly done by the guys that created it) to increase T levels -

http://www.snac.com/research.htm

http://www.snac.com/res_zma_2.htm

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drizzt Veteran member

drizzt

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That seems to be the generally accepted wisdom, but I've never been able to find out why. Is it just that the study showing ZMA's effectiveness used this ratio, so everyone else has followed suit? Or is there an actual reason for it?

Good question! I'm not sure, I thought I'd throw it out there for a little debate - I'm reading the links that Specter posted now to try and find an answer :)

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drizzt Veteran member

drizzt

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Hey drizz how you finding the novedex? Im 2/3 of the way through a halodrol cycle, I wish I had gotten 2 packs as I am just feeling the benfits now. I would love to pair this up with Novedex. Far better than Trib.

Hey man, I took the stack at the same time I started a creatine cycle, so it's hard to say exactly what effect the stack (or any of the components individually) had, if any.

What I will say though, is in that period I gained quite a bit on all of my lifts. There are too many variables to narrow it down to one thing making the difference, though. So I like to think it was a combination of everything (diet, new routine, ZMA/Nov/Trib, Creatine, L-Glutamine) :)

Or maybe I should call it the "Placebo Stack"? :pfft:

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drizzt Veteran member

drizzt

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Had a big reply typed out citing the sources, quotes etc, but it started getting lengthy so I disposed of it :pfft:

Basically, from what I gathered on that site (and taking their studies as valid), it's not the ratio as a whole that is important, but the individual amounts of each.

Athletes excrete more zinc than the average person through sweat (on top of inadequate intake), so we need more than your average Joe/Jane. The studies recommend 15mg for adult males, and 12 for adult females. However, the body only absorbs what it needs, and holds 2-3grams at a time, so maybe that goes some ways to explaining why the Zinc ratio is where it is in ZMA supps.

Magnesium; it looks like they were working on a hunch with it in regards to athlete's deficiency in Mg? I say this because of the "may" (as well as putative) in the following quote:

Also, Mg has a putative effect on muscle strength in clinical applications and previously untrained individuals (10). Mg may be reduced due to intense and/or long-term exercise (10)

I couldn't find anything saying why they had included it other than the above, if anyone sees something I haven't, feel free to chime in :) RDI is 350mg for an adult male, and 280 for an adult female.

B6 was added to the study because other studies they've cited suggests it enhanced the uptake of Z and Mg, as well as for it's protein metabolizing properties.

So I guess in short, to answer your question, Pseu: (IMHO) It seems to be because the study used those amounts :pfft: Other than the RDI, and adding a bit on top of that for the loss athletes can (or "may") experience, I couldn't find their reasoning for the amounts. edit - also, after a google search on the topic, I could only find sites saying that "the ratio is extremely important" (bodybuilding.com article amongst them)... but no results actually said why! :-s You've got me thinking Pseu, thanks :)

That may be because I've not got enough time to read further :pfft:

Would love for somebody to debunk/agree with some/all of what I've just regurgitated from the SNAC site :P

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rose Veteran member

rose

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I cant understand what people mean by having great sleeps.....the only time I tried ZMA I had the most trippy dreams ever, so vivid and violent...it literally felt like Id never slept and was absolutely exhausted each morning when I 'awoke' for like 10 days solid....never tried it again.

How do you normally react to foods/supps containing aspartate? Might be something to bear in mind (ZMA - Zinc Monomethionine Aspartate)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartic_acid

Aspartate (the conjugate base of aspartic acid) stimulates NMDA receptors, though not as strongly as the amino acid neurotransmitter glutamate does.[5] It serves as an excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and is an excitotoxin.
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olympia Senior member

olympia

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I cant understand what people mean by having great sleeps.....the only time I tried ZMA I had the most trippy dreams ever, so vivid and violent...it literally felt like Id never slept and was absolutely exhausted each morning when I 'awoke' for like 10 days solid....never tried it again.

I know what you mean about the vivid dreams but i definately had a much better night sleep on the biotest ZMA . Thanks everyone for the input..

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