Upper/Lower Pecs

[EMC]

this should be fun \:D/

why is it that the clavicle head of the pec muscle is refered to as a pec?

point 1) the muscle doenst even function the same way as the sternal head and it originates at a different bone.

point 2) it functions more like a shoulder with a front raise/press. is it a strange coincidence that the anterior delt also originates at the clavical?

why didnt they decide to name the anterior deltoid a lateral pec/or the clavicle head its own muscle.

[Mrbig]

it has more to do with the insertion

1 point of insertion= whole muscle works together= Pectoralis major

just like triceps 3 heads 1 muscle= 1 insertion etc

its not actually that complicated

[PTinCHCH]

lol

[EMC]

it has more to do with the insertion

1 point of insertion= whole muscle works together= Pectoralis major

just like triceps 3 heads 1 muscle= 1 insertion etc

its not actually that complicated

it would be stupid to disagree and say theyre all inserted into the same place, but a short calculation off isnt much to make a huge difference. biogolically speaking the muscle can be ulitized in many different ways as its obviously inserted and originates in two different bones, so its not only going to work one way and we see that with the clavicle head, so to calculate that slight differnece doenst justify the means.

http://edoc.hu-berlin.de/habilitationen ... age021.jpg

http://www.brazoria-county.com/sheriff/ ... erusup.jpg

if you have a look at these photos which dispaly the different segments of the bone, you will see the shoulder is insterted into number 7 and the pec into number 4. even the sternal and claviclular head arent inserted directly in the same spot but marginally apart. that marginal distance is almost equal to the distance between the clavicle pec and deltoid.

[Mrbig]

those pics are very interesting maybe science is wrong lol

But then again because the pecs only do 4 movements of the shoulder joint regardless of what angle they are moved at i.e incline,flat,decline the whole muscle is stimulated

but I could be wrong who knows

just go lift some fucken weights lol

[steak]

:roll:

[ThePman]

this thread hurts me. in the face.

[roadie]

if you guys have nothing nice to add.....get back to work, theres enough neg in the world without taking time out of your life to make a worthless reply we all have to read

ive got no answer to the questions, but have learnt something here

[ThePman]

You've learned misinformation. Oh, and you've learned that Internet lectures are pointless.

[Nik Antunovich]

Hey All!

I'm not big on anatomy but I don't think the above images are accurate. I am fairly sure that both heads of the pectoralis major (clavicle and sternal head) have their insertion points at the same part of the humerous. Although the clavicular head has a longer insertion. I think the scale is miles out on the first image and should have been drawn to show the clavicle head inserting along a large part of the insertion point with the sternal head with a smaller insertion towards the top of the insertion point.

I'm not if the second image is reliable at all. EMC where did you find that picture of the humerous with information explaining what the numbers are in reference to?

[EMC]

Hey All!

I'm not big on anatomy but I don't think the above images are accurate. I am fairly sure that both heads of the pectoralis major (clavicle and sternal head) have their insertion points at the same part of the humerous. Although the clavicular head has a longer insertion. I think the scale is miles out on the first image and should have been drawn to show the clavicle head inserting along a large part of the insertion point with the sternal head with a smaller insertion towards the top of the insertion point.

I'm not if the second image is reliable at all. EMC where did you find that picture of the humerous with information explaining what the numbers are in reference to?

the numbers labled are as below:

1 Head

2 Anatomical Neck

3 Lesser Tubercle

4 Intertubercular Groove

5 Greater Tubercle

6 Surgical Neck

7 Deltoid Tuberosity

this information can be gathered from any location by searching humerus insertions.

you are very much correct that the photo is exagerated in the scale. you are correct the insertion point is in the same "area" of the humerus but it definately isnt inserted together so that clearly means they dont function together. that is the point im trying to make

it is a physiological impossibility for the clavicle head to function the aid of the shoulder in raising the arm/overhead press if it were inserted perpendicular to the humerus like the sternal head.

EDIT:heres another photo (not in perfect scale) that will emphasize the relation between the clavicle head and the anterior deltoid.

http://edoc.hu-berlin.de/habilitationen ... age025.jpg

[EMC]

You've learned misinformation. Oh, and you've learned that Internet lectures are pointless.

i aint starting a lecture, im starting an intelligent debate to see what people think. clearly you have nothing to add as you ran out of hotlinks and you got nothing better to do but to flame.

[ThePman]

There was an intelligent debate here?

Looked more like yelling and some copy-pasting. But I've been wrong before.

[Nik Antunovich]

Sure but the insertion point is the same even if it is not identical.

What is your point EMC? Is it relative to anything you a particularly concerned with?

[Beef]

it's never an intelligent debate when EMC's involved

[EMC]

sigh..i thought this would be an interesting dicussion. i guess not many people have knowledge on this sort of subject.

it's never an intelligent debate when EMC's involved

gymsta you have no knowledge in...almost anything, from what ive seen. you are not entitled to an opinion. as usual, quit spamming.

[Nik Antunovich]

In reconsidering what I written I am certain both heads of the pectoralis major are both inserted into the intertubercular groove. They are both inserted in the same place not in different places.

[ThePman]

sigh..i thought this would be an interesting dicussion. i guess not many people have knowledge on this sort of subject.

Oh I've got plenty of knowledge on the subject. In fact, I know so much about it that I know the discussion has no practical applications whatsoever.

[EMC]

In reconsidering what I written I am certain both heads of the pectoralis major are both inserted into the intertubercular groove. They are both inserted in the same place not in different places.

well if my suggestions were cloudy earlier to summarize...how is it possible for both the heads to be inserted in the exact place if the two muscles dont function together...

how is it possible for the clavicle head to aid raising the arm if it was hypothetically inserted perpendicular to the humerus, obviously its inserted at an obtuse angle. so therefore it must be inserted lower than the sternal head.

[Nik Antunovich]

Well I think that is the complexity of the shoulder and a compound movement. Regardless the two heads are inserted in the same place. They obviously both work with pushing movements.

I am still trying to gather to what point is your argument? You don't need a road map to go no where.

[Nik Antunovich]

...the discussion has no practical applications whatsoever.

That's what I trying to gather. Are there any "practical applications" EMC?

[EMC]

nope. im just wondering if someone could give me an explanation why the clavicle head isnt referenced as its own muscle, but as a pec. other than the fact that its inserted on the intertubercular groove. i take it there is no other explanation?

edit-typo

[Nik Antunovich]

i take it there is no other explanation?

I'd say that's it. :clap:

[ThePman]

nope. im just wondering if someone could give me an explanation why the clavicle head isnt referenced as its own muscle, but as a pec. other than the fact that its inserted on the intertubercular groove. i take it there is no other explanation?

Because it moves w/ the rest of the pec for 99% of all pectoral movements at the shoulder (it only has two distinct articulations, IIRC, and is involved in everything else the sternal head does) and they're wired together neurologically.

[Jigga]

this thread hurts me. in the face.

I choked on my tea.