Lower lats.............what exercies do you recommend?

[Johnboy007]

Nice PMan... although I struggle to take you seriously with that profile picture,

*cringes as he waits for one of those terrible one liners that the ginger ninja over empahisizes on CSI*

[AlBundy]

I managed to noticeably develop the lower portion of my pecs out of proportion to the upper part, from heavy benching. I say this understanding the pec major is all one muscle.

But I think I get what you're saying.

[mr natural]

I find this works quite well for me, one arm dumbell rows with good form touching the dumbell to the hip and holding while squeezing the elbow back in towards the body. after the set get up and tilt your torso towards the side you just worked and tense your lat by pulling your shoulder down and back( kind of like a row)

This is about as close as i get to feeling "the lower lat" working . can feel it around the insertion point quite well while doing this pose/contraction. mind/ muscle connection.

[ThePman]

I managed to noticeably develop the lower portion of my pecs out of proportion to the upper part, from heavy benching. I say this understanding the pec major is all one muscle.

The pec major has a sternal and a clavicular head, and they perform (very slightly) different functions.

[AlBundy]

I see. You are full of answers you must read a lot. Did you learn most of this formally or just out of interest?

[rose]

Everyone knows ThePman!

He's changing the world one skinny prick at a time!

[musclenz]

I managed to noticeably develop the lower portion of my pecs out of proportion to the upper part, from heavy benching. I say this understanding the pec major is all one muscle.

The pec major has a sternal and a clavicular head, and they perform (very slightly) different functions.

OMG ThePman, don't start this topic up again its been done to death :grin:

[rose]

I managed to noticeably develop the lower portion of my pecs out of proportion to the upper part, from heavy benching. I say this understanding the pec major is all one muscle.

The pec major has a sternal and a clavicular head, and they perform (very slightly) different functions.

OMG ThePman, don't start this topic up again its been done to death :grin:

Heh, I must've been asleep for that one :pfft:

[musclenz]

The pec major has a sternal and a clavicular head, and they perform (very slightly) different functions.

OMG ThePman, don't start this topic up again its been done to death :grin:

Heh, I must've been asleep for that one :pfft:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5280

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6530

Just a couple to get you warmed up Rose :pfft:

[musclenz]

I find this works quite well for me, one arm dumbell rows with good form touching the dumbell to the hip and holding while squeezing the elbow back in towards the body. after the set get up and tilt your torso towards the side you just worked and tense your lat by pulling your shoulder down and back( kind of like a row)

This is about as close as i get to feeling "the lower lat" working . can feel it around the insertion point quite well while doing this pose/contraction. mind/ muscle connection.

Maybe onto it mr at as its often said that the close grip lat pullls, close grip chins, one arm rows where the elbow is close to the torso in the movement, targets the lower lats. However, being another fan shaped muscle & attached at one point onto the humerus at the top of the arm & onto several costal attachments in the lower back, served by one main artery & nerve, it would seem unlikely that different fibres within the lats could be recruited independently. Go on MrP I know you will dive into this as anatomy, physiology & bio mechanics are your speciality :pfft:

[AlBundy]

All I know is feeling any contraction through out the lat muscle especially where it inserts on my lower back is not easy, for me anyway.

[mr natural]

the p man won't know anything about mind muscle conection and feeling an exercise in one part of the muscle more because his text books don't make mention of it anywhere. for the rest of us working hard in the weights room we know such things ARE possible. musclenz, i feel my lats in there lower insersion point TIGHT when I bend my spine towards the tensed lat no matter if pman thinks its not possible.

[ThePman]

the p man won't know anything about mind muscle conection and feeling an exercise in one part of the muscle more because his text books don't make mention of it anywhere. for the rest of us working hard in the weights room we know such things ARE possible.

You're right, man. I don't even lift weights. I just read.

What has science ever taught us, anyway?

[rose]

the p man won't know anything about mind muscle conection and feeling an exercise in one part of the muscle more because his text books don't make mention of it anywhere. for the rest of us working hard in the weights room we know such things ARE possible.

Did that make you feel better?

Epic lulz.

As a critic, I hope you've at least taken the time to read the book, including chapter 2. Oh and checked his journal.

[mr natural]

theory is great your right its good to have knowleage about what your doing and how your body works,BUT its not the be all. Its how it applies to the real world thats more important

[ThePman]

theory is great your right its good to have knowleage about what your doing and how your body works,BUT its not the be all. Its how it applies to the real world thats more important

Hint: there are other explanations for what you've described that don't require the "lol science says I'm wrong so fuk science" argument.

[rose]

theory is great your right its good to have knowleage about what your doing and how your body works,BUT its not the be all. Its how it applies to the real world thats more important

No disrespect sir, but is proven human physiology "theory"?

[mr natural]

not at all, i totally argee with your anatomy angle, you cant not isolate the lower part of your lats, its all the same muscle,what im saying to lov me oats is"yes its possible to get a little extra edge by connecting better with the lats and ,specficly the lower insersion for body building/posing so maybe she can squeeze out the entire lat to better effect"

maybe we just have a different way of saying that, as you talked about in a more complex manner certain exercises Can work parts of the muscle differntly

[AlBundy]

Everything's a theory if you think about it. To think we know everything there is to know about the body and nervous system is wrong.

[genetic freek]

Can't isolate lower part of lats eh

cool so you can isolate diffrent parts of muscle. Far out to think i have been wasting all that time on incline bench when I should have just been doing flat. bugger!

[ThePman]

Everything's a theory if you think about it. To think we know everything there is to know about the body and nervous system is wrong.

I don't have to know everything about gravity to be pretty sure, to the point of betting any amount of money, that I will fall to my death if I walk off the top of a tall building.

There's certainty and then there's certainty. Muscle isn't likely to stop having the known physical properties it has just because you can squeeze your lats in the gym.

[Optimass]

Just because it all inserts at one point doesn't mean a single exercise can develop the entire muscle does it? Your telling me that no matter what you do the load of any given movement e.g a row or pullup will be perfectly distributed across every muscle fiber in your lat for over all development? Or are you saying you have no control over which muscle fibers grow that it's genetic at the end of the day.

It's kinda both, really - when you contract a muscle, tension is distributed throughout the whole thing from insertion to origin. It's like taking a sheet of rubber and stretching it; the whole thing deforms.

Now you can discuss the relative stress placed on different muscles with different exercises. That's valid, and with the back especially there's a lot of confusion because there are a lot of various muscles with varied functions.

As a rule, rowing movements will tend to involve more of the mid-back musculature involved in scapular motions, while chinning/pulling kinds of movements will work more of the actual lat muscles. But there's always some of both, just due to the mechanics of each exercise.

Due to the insertion points of a given muscle and the angle any given exercise is performed on, I would have thought that certain muscle fibers in a given muscle would be stressed harder than others leading to growth in some but not in others. Or am I incorrect.

There is *some* evidence of what's called "motor unit compartmentalization" in large muscles. What this means is that different pools of motor units can be activated differentially, by different exercises.

To imagine this, think of the sheet of rubber I mentioned above, and now imagine pulling on while holding each end with thumb and forefingers - the whole thing will stretch, but there's "more" stretch in the line between the small points where your fingers are holding it. That sounds good, right? You'd think that zone of maximal deformation would be getting the most stress.

The problem is, this only seems to actually happen under light tensions. To extend the analogy again, if you pull the sheet hard enough, the whole thing is going to deform regardless of how you hold it.

Since actually growing a muscle requires (relatively) heavy weights, this is the issue: if you're lifting heavy enough to stimulate growth, then there's very little wiggle-room for the different pools of motor units to activate differentially.

That, and empirically speaking you just don't see people developing parts of any given muscle out of proportion to the entire muscle. If this "shaping" effect exists at all, it's a very small contribution to physique development.

Great post :clap:

[AlBundy]

Everything's a theory if you think about it. To think we know everything there is to know about the body and nervous system is wrong.

I don't have to know everything about gravity to be pretty sure, to the point of betting any amount of money, that I will fall to my death if I walk off the top of a tall building.

There's certainty and then there's certainty. Muscle isn't likely to stop having the known physical properties it has just because you can squeeze your lats in the gym.

That wasn't directed at you. Nor was I implying that what is known regarding the function of our nervous and muscle systems is somehow irrelevant it's certainly not.

People have fallen out of planes and survived sure the odds are low but it has happened.

[Mrbig]

pman your posts have made the most sense on here in a long time

to the others think of your muscle fibres like a light switch

when a light switch is turned on (load put thru muscle) the whole lightbulb (all the fibres) lights up not parts of it (are activated from the origin to insertion) you cant flick a light switch and say only the bottom part of the bulb will turn on (regardless of the exercise you do for the lats or what grip you use underload all the fibres will turn on)

luv.me.oats look at your pics carefully your lats sit very high on your torso giving the apperance of havin what you guys call weak lower lats when in actual terms you have a short muscle belly and longer tendons google some pics of bodybuilders and you will see the difference between the bodyshapes

I know the whole (feeling more when doing a certain exercise) I use to think the same until I studied the human anatomy just like those stupid pec threads that always pop up

your muscles are how they are all you can do is make them bigger stronger or more flexible you can NOT change the shape or length of a muscle no matter what you think

[Beef]

pman your posts have made the most sense on here in a long time

to the others think of your muscle fibres like a light switch

when a light switch is turned on (load put thru muscle) the whole lightbulb (all the fibres) lights up not parts of it (are activated from the origin to insertion) you cant flick a light switch and say only the bottom part of the bulb will turn on (regardless of the exercise you do for the lats or what grip you use underload all the fibres will turn on)

luv.me.oats look at your pics carefully your lats sit very high on your torso giving the apperance of havin what you guys call weak lower lats when in actual terms you have a short muscle belly and longer tendons google some pics of bodybuilders and you will see the difference between the bodyshapes

I know the whole (feeling more when doing a certain exercise) I use to think the same until I studied the human anatomy just like those stupid pec threads that always pop up

your muscles are how they are all you can do is make them bigger stronger or more flexible you can NOT change the shape or length of a muscle no matter what you think

:clap: good post