Lower lats.............what exercies do you recommend?

[luv.me.oats]

This year I am focussing on what I need to work/improve on. Lower lats for me seem to be lacking/undeveloped, so in a bid to achieve that v-taper, i've started using different pieces of equipment, i.e.

Hammer pull downs

Hammer rows

close grip pull downs

One arm dumbell rows

What do you guys recommend?

I know that I may need to work on my rear lat spread to show off that muscle?

[AlBundy]

http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/lifestyles/2010-md-spring-seminar/2663-gaspari-nutrition-presents-the-md-seminar-dorian-yates-backtraining.html

Seems like bent over rows are at the top of the list.

[ThePman]

If it were up to me I'd just say just get stronger on your weighted chins and barbell rows, but I'm a minimalist on this kind of thing.

[startinfromscratch]

i was gonna post that very link, albundy. thats quite a good vid, some tips worth hearing imo.

[Beef]

most types of rows will work your lower lats.. the key is to keep your elbows in close to your sides- so close that you brush your lats on the way past

[Gasp]

What do you guys recommend?

I know that I may need to work on my rear lat spread to show off that muscle?

[attachment=0]October, NZFBB Nats - 3 days out.jpg[/attachment]

After seeing that rear lat spread I think most of the guys will have to be working on their own lats,delts and biceps. :clap: :clap:

[matt.be]

Barbell rows with under hand grip (palms facing up) work well for lower lats.

[EMC]

Barbell rows with under hand grip (palms facing down) work well for lower lats.

^this, altough i dont do them. t-bar rows or db rows are good too.

[cantygirl]

Correct me if im wrong, but if your doing an underhand grip row, arn't your palms facing up? Also, I thought this was essentially a bicep exercise.

[Beef]

Correct me if im wrong, but if your doing an underhand grip row, arn't your palms facing up? Also, I thought this was essentially a bicep exercise.

:nod: underhand grip is palms facing up. but it's not a bicep exercise unless the technique is wrong

[Gym rat]

reverse grip pulldowns those are good for the lower lats and I do them from time to time

[AlBundy]

Correct me if im wrong, but if your doing an underhand grip row, arn't your palms facing up? Also, I thought this was essentially a bicep exercise.

Pull with your elbows, try to minimize biceps contraction. Try feel all the contraction in your lats. If done properly this grip should allow you to squeeze your lats even harder than an overhand grip.

[genetic freek]

Fark just wrote a post and deleted it haha

Lower lats eh

I feel when I do standard seated rows sitting very up right I hit middle back more than lats, so I Lean back a bit more and pull to the groin this without doubt hits lower lats. You can do this doing bent over rows standing more upright but making sure you pull to the groin or else you use to much traps midle back etc etc.

Try it. it works

[matt.be]

Correct me if im wrong, but if your doing an underhand grip row, arn't your palms facing up? Also, I thought this was essentially a bicep exercise.

Haha yup your right, small brain spas there. edited

[Mrbig]

some of you guys need to learn basic human anatomy

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/7 ... _dorsi.png

please look carefully im not trying to be a dick just that there is no lower lat just your lat and varying your grip will not work different parts of it when you understand the human anatomy and its origins and insertions it makes more sense but no matter how the grip is its still the same movement which is shoulder extension and the reason your biceps are involved is to do any sort of rowing or pulling movement you have to flex your elbow thus contracting the bicep etc etc

so just lift heavy with good form on which ever exercise is your favourite and let your body do the rest

[cantygirl]

lol mat.be, im always being accused of having blonde moments, so il dine out on this a little more if that ok.

Yes Mrbig, thats exactly what I was getting at, you can't ignore basic anatomy. Sometimes I think you can train with your mind and visualise hitting other secondary muscles in a specific movement, perhaps thats what the other guys are getting at.

[luv.me.oats]

After seeing that rear lat spread I think most of the guys will have to be working on their own lats,delts and biceps.

sorry Gasp here is the lat spread,

When lighter I tend to do chins, inside & wide & reverse as well.

I feel when I do standard seated rows sitting very up right I hit middle back more than lats,

What attachment do you suggest?

[Johnboy007]

Is it me or is that last pic kinda hot........

[ThePman]

some of you guys need to learn basic human anatomy

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/7 ... _dorsi.png

please look carefully im not trying to be a dick just that there is no lower lat just your lat and varying your grip will not work different parts of it when you understand the human anatomy and its origins and insertions it makes more sense but no matter how the grip is its still the same movement which is shoulder extension and the reason your biceps are involved is to do any sort of rowing or pulling movement you have to flex your elbow thus contracting the bicep etc etc

so just lift heavy with good form on which ever exercise is your favourite and let your body do the rest

This is about how I see it. I'm not sure of what a whole lot of different exercises are actually going to do to the muscle, versus just finding a few key lifts that you like and hammering them while getting stronger in them over time.

[PTinCHCH]

Is it me or is that last pic kinda hot........

pretty sure both are

=P~

[muskles]

Is it me or is that last pic kinda hot........

:nod: :nod: :nod:

[BANNER]

Is it me or is that last pic kinda hot........

:nod: :nod: :nod:

Lucky Mossimo :oops: :oops: :oops:

[AlBundy]

some of you guys need to learn basic human anatomy

http://en.academic.ru/pictures/enwiki/7 ... _dorsi.png

please look carefully im not trying to be a dick just that there is no lower lat just your lat and varying your grip will not work different parts of it when you understand the human anatomy and its origins and insertions it makes more sense but no matter how the grip is its still the same movement which is shoulder extension and the reason your biceps are involved is to do any sort of rowing or pulling movement you have to flex your elbow thus contracting the bicep etc etc

so just lift heavy with good form on which ever exercise is your favourite and let your body do the rest

Just because it all inserts at one point doesn't mean a single exercise can develop the entire muscle does it? Your telling me that no matter what you do the load of any given movement e.g a row or pullup will be perfectly distributed across every muscle fiber in your lat for over all development? Or are you saying you have no control over which muscle fibers grow that it's genetic at the end of the day.

I think the idea with the grip is to get the feeling of the most contraction across the muscle. The old mind muscle connection idea.

Due to the insertion points of a given muscle and the angle any given exercise is performed on, I would have thought that certain muscle fibers in a given muscle would be stressed harder than others leading to growth in some but not in others. Or am I incorrect.

[Johnboy007]

Just because it all inserts at one point doesn't mean a single exercise can develop the entire muscle does it? Your telling me that no matter what you do the load of any given movement e.g a row or pullup will be perfectly distributed across every muscle fiber in your lat for over all development? Or are you saying you have no control over which muscle fibers grow that it's genetic at the end of the day.

I think the idea with the grip is to get the feeling of the most contraction across the muscle. The old mind muscle connection idea.

Due to the insertion points of a given muscle and the angle any given exercise is performed on, I would have thought that certain muscle fibers in a given muscle would be stressed harder than others leading to growth in some but not in others. Or am I incorrect.

I agree with the shoe saleman on this one, despite "basic anatomy" changing angles does stress different areas of a single muscle. I would have though "basic physics" would play a part with different pivot and leverage points transferring weight to different areas of the body and muscle in turn.

If I took Mr bigs theory in its simplest form that would suggest no change between a wide grip chin for lat width to a rowing motion for thickness.... would it not.

IMO Oats I would try a lat pull down machine with a close grip attachment, seems to hit my lower lats. That said my back is not as good as yours so maybe it is just me being weak and inflexible :pfft:

[ThePman]

Just because it all inserts at one point doesn't mean a single exercise can develop the entire muscle does it? Your telling me that no matter what you do the load of any given movement e.g a row or pullup will be perfectly distributed across every muscle fiber in your lat for over all development? Or are you saying you have no control over which muscle fibers grow that it's genetic at the end of the day.

It's kinda both, really - when you contract a muscle, tension is distributed throughout the whole thing from insertion to origin. It's like taking a sheet of rubber and stretching it; the whole thing deforms.

Now you can discuss the relative stress placed on different muscles with different exercises. That's valid, and with the back especially there's a lot of confusion because there are a lot of various muscles with varied functions.

As a rule, rowing movements will tend to involve more of the mid-back musculature involved in scapular motions, while chinning/pulling kinds of movements will work more of the actual lat muscles. But there's always some of both, just due to the mechanics of each exercise.

Due to the insertion points of a given muscle and the angle any given exercise is performed on, I would have thought that certain muscle fibers in a given muscle would be stressed harder than others leading to growth in some but not in others. Or am I incorrect.

There is *some* evidence of what's called "motor unit compartmentalization" in large muscles. What this means is that different pools of motor units can be activated differentially, by different exercises.

To imagine this, think of the sheet of rubber I mentioned above, and now imagine pulling on while holding each end with thumb and forefingers - the whole thing will stretch, but there's "more" stretch in the line between the small points where your fingers are holding it. That sounds good, right? You'd think that zone of maximal deformation would be getting the most stress.

The problem is, this only seems to actually happen under light tensions. To extend the analogy again, if you pull the sheet hard enough, the whole thing is going to deform regardless of how you hold it.

Since actually growing a muscle requires (relatively) heavy weights, this is the issue: if you're lifting heavy enough to stimulate growth, then there's very little wiggle-room for the different pools of motor units to activate differentially.

That, and empirically speaking you just don't see people developing parts of any given muscle out of proportion to the entire muscle. If this "shaping" effect exists at all, it's a very small contribution to physique development.