Help!!! Please check what I'm taking. Worried about gyno

[spencer21]

Hi All,

I got into taking gear from a friend who pretty much has told me what to take, how much, and when to take it.

Started with:

1/2 ml injected Sunday and Wed of Tren-A

1 ml injected Sunday and Wed of Sustan

This went on for 10 weeks then took a 2 week break

Currently:

1ml injected Sunday of Tren-A

1ml injected Sunday and Wed of Sustan

I'm freaking out that I am taking the wrong amount now and may be starting to get gyno. As I am bulking it could be fat but can't be sure. Please have a look and give me your opinion. If there is anything else I should take please let me know.

Thanks heaps for your help guys

[Bobsta]

Is that you in your avatar? if it is, you need to stop taking steroids asap and give training and proper eating a good go 4 a few years.

Dont mean to be harsh on you budd but thats my advice to you. Take it or leave it...

[Outkast]

get some letro.. and then stop taking gear.

[spencer21]

No thats a really old pic of when I first started. Was training for a year and got up to 90kg without the gear.

I pretty much have decided to stop but am wanting to know if things will get worse? Should I get an estrogen blocker before I stop?

I am the first to admit that I went into this a bit blind and was stupid to. My mate has very low body fat and didnt really have to worry about getting tits. Please keep the advice coming.

Much appreciated guys

[Outkast]

No thats a really old pic of when I first started. Was training for a year and got up to 90kg without the gear.

I pretty much have decided to stop but am wanting to know if things will get worse? Should I get an estrogen blocker before I stop?

I am the first to admit that I went into this a bit blind and was stupid to. My mate has very low body fat and didnt really have to worry about getting tits. Please keep the advice coming.

Much appreciated guys

are your nips puffy or sensitive?

[spencer21]

Not sensitive but a bit puffy. As I said could be just holding fat there too. got the weeks wrong. Have only been taking the Tren 8 weeks the Sustan a bit longer

[spencer21]

How would I get it?

Would it just stop things from getting worse or will it reduce them?

If i went to the DR and said what I had done do you think he would perscribe it?

Any idea of cost?

[jonnypineapple]

Why are you taking Tren A only once a week?

[musclenz]

To start with Sustanon & Trenbolone Acetate should be injected at least EOD. ED is even better for Tren. This helps to keep sides to a minimum. By shooting up twice weekly your blood levels will be all over the place. However, I realise that the dose you are using with Tren is a bit difficult to split up. What mg/ml is the Tren? If you are getting puffy itchy nips this is probably from increased progesterone activity which results in prolactin buildup. Tren works on a different pathway than Test. As Outkast suggested you need a estrogen inhibitor like Letrozole 2.5mg eod to start with to see if you can tidy it up. I would not think that prolactin would be too high on 100mg PW of Tren but if you have no sucess with the AI then you may need Cagergoline - Dostinex at .5mg 3 xPW. Once you have had gyno you will have a lot more respect to what drugs you asre using & will likely learn a lot more about using anti-estrogens in your cycle or at least having them on hand. Good luck.

[Outkast]

no offence dude but that display picture you had on here lastnight looked like an average 4th former who never stepped foot in a gym before.

i dont think you should be taking gear and i dont say that about many people! how old are you?

[AllenNZ]

musclenz what has been the best cycle you have seen that would help out some of the new boys that come on here looking and asking

[igotthegoods]

check out isteroid.com

a cycle isnt something you should rush into,it can f*ck you pretty bad if u dunno wat ur duin

[musclenz]

musclenz what has been the best cycle you have seen that would help out some of the new boys that come on here looking and asking

A big question my friend. Personally I always recomend a Test only cycle for a first timer.

Testosterone Enanthate (250mg/ml) - 500mg PW divided into 2 x 1ml shots Mon & Thurs for 12-14 weeks. Hcg if used at 500iu PW finishing 1 -2 weeks after last Test shot.

PCT weeks 16-18 Femara 1.25mg ED

weeks 19-20 Tamoxifen 20mg ED

Then subsequent cycles I include an oral steriod normally Dianabol 20mg - 30mg ED for first 4-6 weeks & I also like using it at the end of the cycle & taper out on it until PCT begins. I may include 400mg Boldenone (200mg/ml) with the TestE at 500mg PW.

Then I would add in other compounds like Nandrolone, Masteron, Trenbolone & Stanozolol & orals like Anadrol & Anavar depending on users goals pre comp, bulking etc

The thing with only adding in one compound on each cycle really allows you to access how the body responds.

Whats your thoughts on cycles?

[lordan]

i like your posts musclenz very informative

[Beef]

my question to you is why did you start taking them in the first place? too many people "succumb" to taking steroids when their training and/or diet isn't even sorted. if i were you i would get off those roids before you've done your research and gained some more insight into bodybuilding

[genetic freek]

So Tren and Sust first cycle? hmm

[Jigga]

To start with Sustanon & Trenbolone Acetate should be injected at least EOD. ED is even better for Tren. This helps to keep sides to a minimum. By shooting up twice weekly your blood levels will be all over the place. However, I realise that the dose you are using with Tren is a bit difficult to split up. What mg/ml is the Tren? If you are getting puffy itchy nips this is probably from increased progesterone activity which results in prolactin buildup. Tren works on a different pathway than Test. As Outkast suggested you need a estrogen inhibitor like Letrozole 2.5mg eod to start with to see if you can tidy it up. I would not think that prolactin would be too high on 100mg PW of Tren but if you have no sucess with the AI then you may need Cagergoline - Dostinex at .5mg 3 xPW. Once you have had gyno you will have a lot more respect to what drugs you asre using & will likely learn a lot more about using anti-estrogens in your cycle or at least having them on hand. Good luck.

I know who to talk to if I decide to juice :nod:

[AllenNZ]

quote: musclenz ( Whats your thoughts on cycles? )

When someone comes and ask's about going on the gear and what are my thoughts I ask what do they know and then I say lets have a long talk as there are things they need to know before they go down that track. As we all know there are people out there that are not into bodybuilding but just want to look good. Now the first they need to look at and that is the food as there will need to be big changes as we all know when taking test the fool needs to be clean. As for a cycle it comes down to age, wellbeing or bodybuilding and if they are doing a comp in the open class, because each one will be using a different amount per week. So thats about all I can say on this forum otherwise i will end up with shit loads of pm's

[samoan_muscle]

quote: musclenz ( Whats your thoughts on cycles? )

So thats about all I can say on this forum otherwise i will end up with shit loads of pm's

LOL - and thats what you DONT want ae Allen.

[Optimass]

classic side step ... good answer

[AllenNZ]

That right samoan muscle as a lot of you don't read whats in books or on the forums so don't pm me.

so mate what are you doing this year comp wise ???

[samoan_muscle]

That right samoan muscle as a lot of you don't read whats in books or on the forums so don't pm me.

so mate what are you doing this year comp wise ???

Looks like another year off for me this year Allen - getting married at the end of the year so putting all my money and focus towards that.

[Specter]

Can everyone please PM Allen NZ instead of me. thank you :pfft:

[musclenz]

So I have had a PM from a top strongman in NZ suggesting that a first cycle should be based around a dose of 250mg Testosterone Enanthate PW & I think that it might be interesting to discuss this on the open forum. Actually it would be great if members would give their opinions on this matter from their own experience.

Now I agree "that more is not better". There are arguments for & against the amount of exogenous Testosterone that should be used in early cycles. There are many reports of guys who have gained mass of 8-10kg & increased lift strength by 20% or more on a cycle of 250mg Test PW. I know this does happen. So why use double that? I not going to give you the old argument that 250mg is not going to f*ck up your HPTA as much as 500mg will, because it will. "100mgs of test/week takes about 5-6 weeks to shut the HPTA, and 250-500mgs shuts you down by week 2." (ref Steroid.com) But what I would like to throw out there to you guys is this : Everyone processes Test in different ways. Some people who are more efficient at utilising exogenous Test into protein synthesis than others. This may be due to other factors within the endocrine system like SHBG, free testosterone, conversion rate to DHT & estrogen, pituitary & hypothalamus function & also thyroid function & metabolic rate. So some guys are just more efficient at utilising test & 250mg is all they need.

I want to throw in a wild card now. I believe that bigger, stronger genetically gifted mesomorphs are normally higher in natty test production & that they respond to smaller doses of AAS & have better results. While smaller bodied ectomorphs & endomorphs do not naturally produce & carry as much free test as the mesos do. I think age also plays a big part in the equation. Now I have no scientific studies to support my hypothesis but I have taken into account those guys I have been involved with & it just seems to have some credence, in my books anyway.

So the thing to going to 500mg is also based on the fact that you loose about 15%-25% of the potency of your gear generally in the ester weight. So 500mg of enanthate comes out at around 360mg of free test in the body after absorption. 250mg comes out at about 180mg free test. So I think its best to get your dosing up around 500mg but I would leave it at that for several cycles after the first one but just add in additional compounds.

Another way of looking at this is to use 250mg of Enanthate with 250mg Boldenone to give around same migs but this sort of defeats the purpose of trying one compound at a time to see how it works for you.

[HumanPerformance]

I think your correct in your observations muscle. Mesomorphs do not have to take as large a dose to get the same results or better than ectos or endos.

This probably explains the statement you recieved from the strongman competitor, as invariably it is the genitically gifted mesomorphs that end up becoming our strongmen and pro bodybuilders. But alot of the time advice from these individuals wether on training or nutrition or "supplementation" dosent apply to mere motals (90% of us) as they normally advocate what has worked for them. When it comes to training and mentoring other genitically gifted individuals though they are often the best people for the job.

As to why mesos gain on lower dosages? Who knows? I mean there are so many variables like all the ones you listed. As well as the fact that mesos have alot higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibres (tongans are said to have the highest with up to 80%!) .They are quite often deficient in the myostatin gene as well which futher enhances thier growth potential.

It is true as you stated the more muscle you carry the more T you are likely to produce, but does this natural higher T production cause a natural proliferation in androgen recptors in the body, thus making AAS more effective?? I dont know but yes its a possibility.

As to the recommendation of initial users taking 250mg PW of enanthate?

From my own observations over the years I agree with you that 250mg PW will not be enough for alot of individuals and they may end up only gaining 3kg or so (although maybe they wold be happy with that).

But why use such a strong androgen on your first few cycles anyway? I personally think you should save such compounds for a little later down the track, when down regualation of androgen receptors has started to become an issue. I mean why not start on something a bit more anabolic like decca? Or even your exellent suggestion you made of boldenone (one of the most underated of all steroids when you weigh up results versus side effects IMO). I mean if you use the enanthate you have to worry about the possibility of aromatization or DHT related side effects which could incur the extra exspense of Anti estrogens/aromatise inhibitors or alpha reductase inhibitors (although admittidly you will probably need the AE/AIs for PCT anyway).

But I totally agree that you should only do one compound at a time to see what works for your particular body untill you have built up a basic understanding of your bodies responses.