ZMA

[Chemo]

ZMA

How necessary or beneficial do you all find ZMA's or natural test boosters?

I have tried tribulus last year in my first bulk cycle, however since I started creatine and some heavy eating i could judge if it were responsible for any of my gains.

So now im wondering if ZMA could be a regular supplement, I went to the old countdown and got some real seal Z, M and b6 but I am wondering if it is enough.

How much do you all take?

Can anyone recommend some products that have given them some results? (i know nzbb luuuurves the gaspari :3 )

Cheers

[justhell]

hey Chemo

just copied this off wikipidia

# Zinc deficiency lowers testosterone levels[36] but over supplementation has no effect on serum testosterone.[37]

[musclenz]

Zinc is a very important component to any BBers nutrition. It is more important to males for testosterone production. Zinc is often filled with calcium which downgrades the zinc absorbtion. Oh my, thats Big Pharma again. Its bound in ZMA with the Magnesium which I think makes it more effective. The recommended dose of ZMA is somewhere around 30 mg Zinc, 450 mg magnesium aspartate, 10.5 mg B6 from some research I have quickly done but I feel that is a bit high & it could be effective at around half that. Those using ZMA could maybe give more details on their dosing.

[bulking4ever]

MuscleNZ was spot on ...Thats the exact dosage that I take ,but what I do is I buy them separately ,Magnesium and the Zinc with B6 and its way cheaper...The ZMA istelf was about 40 bucks for like 50 capsules...Doing what I do I spend around 30 bucks for something like 2 months supply.

[Pseudonym]

Bulking, where do you get your separate zinc, magnesium, and B6 from?

[bulking4ever]

Bulking, where do you get your separate zinc, magnesium, and B6 from?

Health2000 mate.The magnesium its a nice blend with the total of 500mg, and the zinc is mixed with B6.They have a lot of options there.

I take 1 hour before bed time and it makes relaxed ans sleep like a baby due to the mag...Cheers

[Chemo]

awesome cheers, definitely worth getting, now that im not eating as much for sure

and bulking cheers for the heads up on those separate ingredients, zma's are damn expensive, even my cheap red seal ones are expensive enough :S

cheers again

[teamfatboy]

I can't put my hands on the reference I was given, but for ZMA to be effective, the ratio of Zn:Mg:B6 is important, and from memory the Red Seal version wasn't in the right ratio.... let me see if I can dig it out.

[bulking4ever]

awesome cheers, definitely worth getting, now that im not eating as much for sure

and bulking cheers for the heads up on those separate ingredients, zma's are damn expensive, even my cheap red seal ones are expensive enough :S

cheers again

Yeah ZMA is not cheap ay.Teamfatboy is right, the ratio is very important.What you can do is you can get the red seal one wich is about 8 dollars for 90 caps at the market´.Each cap provides 9 mg of zinc so you may take 3 capsules.You'll have 27mg of zinc but still not enough Magnesium cuz the red seal caps only provide 30mg por cap if I'm not mistaken, but then you buy some Magsnesium only,should cost you max 15 bucks.Cheers

[luv.me.oats]

ZMA needs to be cycled, I tend to take one bottle, then have a month off.

Use Trib during month off - Kaizen is a good brand or Biotest Alpha male.

I recommend

biotest or Optimum nutrition ZMA

Though hard to get at the mo. Some bs wtih med safe about the zinc levels

being too high, otherwise musashi ZMA though you will need to take 5 caps.

[rose]

Some bs wtih med safe about the zinc levels being too high

My understanding is that the Zinc RDI in NZ is 15mg. Supplements are supposed to limit their doses to this amount, though I note even the Red Seal dose is "1-2 tablets per day" which would total 18mg of elemental zinc if two tablets were taken.

Re: Musashi "ZMA"

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?p=37816#p37816

Musashi ZMA is not ZMA - as it says it is "based" on the patented ZMA formula which has been shown in studies (admittadly done by the guys that created it) to increase T levels -

http://www.snac.com/research.htm

http://www.snac.com/res_zma_2.htm

Per 4 cap serve it has just over half the amount of Zinc it should have in it (20mg vs 30mg) and the B6 is also wrong and for some reason they've added manganese. In theory they can't make claims to it enhancing T levels as they research was done using a specific amount of each ingredient.

You're only going to get 15 days out of the Mushashi one and and you could get real ZMA for the same price per serve as what you'll pay for that.

Your point re cycling ZMA grabbed my attention. The zinc and magnesium are bound with aspartate. Aspartic acid serves as an excitatory neurotransmitter in the brain and is an excitotoxin. This may not be a concern for you, but I like to know what I'm taking. It might be a concern for you if you're sensitive to that kind of thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartic_acid

[rose]

NFS get away with it by stating the dose (for men) is 2 capsules, though they state the ingredients "per 4 capsules".

INGREDIENTS PER 4 CAPSULES:

Zinc (as monmethionine aspartate) 30mg

Magnesium (as aspartate) 450mg

Vitamin B6 10.5mg

DOSE:

Men: Take 2 capsules daily

Women: Take 1-2 capsules daily

Or as directed by your Health Care Professional

[Chemo]

cheers oats, do you find trib has any effect ?

and yeah looking at the red seal tabs, they ratios are way off, I might go with some ON stuff, or mayby a zma + trib complex etc. If its cost effective. Bulkings idea all good but the mixing of the product is just extra on top of all the other powder measuring, not a huge fan of that.

La norateen? RIPPED IN 4 WEEEEEKS GARRRR lol

Cheers for all the input, muchos appreciated

[Thunderhorse]

Why would you cycle mineral supplementation?

[boostinggtir]

I consistently take zma. Oats, can you explain why it should be cycled? Also I thought zma wasn't allowed in nz, an oz, also I recall ordering from bodybuilding.com an the site saying the supplement cant be shipped h ere.

[luv.me.oats]

i cycle as per the instructions, the body becomes accustomed to something if used day in day out. I've had good results, so I'll stick with what I do.

have a look at supplements.co.nz

they have biotest ZMA on sale.

Medsafe have a problem with the amount of Zinc in ZMA - just do a google I am sure you can find ZMA somewhere in Auckland

[Thunderhorse]

I'm not really buying that your body builds "tolerance" to minerals. The reason ZMA is effective is because many athletes/bodybuilders are deficient in Zinc and Magnesium.

[GreekAdonis]

I consistently take zma. Oats, can you explain why it should be cycled? Also I thought zma wasn't allowed in nz, an oz, also I recall ordering from bodybuilding.com an the site saying the supplement cant be shipped h ere.

As stated above, the RDI for zinc in NZ is 15mg. Most zma supps from bb.com give 30mg of zinc per serve.

Other sites will send them through.

[Pseudonym]

A few questions about making your own ZMA:

1) I see the ratio in the SNAC link that Flex posted above (30 mg zinc monomethionine aspartate, 450 mg magnesium aspartate, and 10.5 mg of vitamin B-6). Why is this important? Is it just that this is what was tested and proven to work, and anything else is an unknown? Or is there a reason for this specific ratio?

2) Do we have to use the aspartate forms? As Rose says, I'm a bit wary of aspartate, and if you buy the zinc or magnesium supplements by themselves they often seem to come in other forms (oxide, chloride, etc).

3) If I do use another form, say zinc oxide rather than zinc aspartate, it's going to have a different bioavailability, and a different molecular weight, so the amount of zinc I get from it will be different to the SNAC formula. This is actually a question, but I'm not sure exactly what it is. It might just be, "Err... help?!"

4) Am I over-thinking all this?

[rose]

4) Am I over-thinking all this?

Yes :pfft: Aspartate, for example magnesium aspartate, is apparently more fully absorbed, than any other form. Sorry I don't have any studies at hand to support this spurious claim. More likely to cross barriers, yadda yadda yadda.

Oxide is pretty piss poor. I'd avoid it in favour of another (better) form, even if more expensive. Especially so in the case of magnesium and zinc, because of how vital they are to life functions, and how often it's found that people are lacking in these two minerals. Critics please note that I said lacking, not deficient.

If you want to get technical, look at the compounds the minerals are chelated to and their pathways/role in biosynthesis of amino acids etc. Good luck with that if you choose to do it, it can drive a sane person mental! :crazy: