Power/bodybuilding

[startinfromscratch]

hi all - apoligies for a long post...

ive been lifting for a year, and as my username suggests, started from zero. zero muscle, zero knowledge. For this year ive been foolowing various versions of bodypart splits, and made some pretty damn good 'newbie' gains. im now at a point were simply going in and doing the same muscles once a week isnt getting me progression, like it used to. My progress has stalled, i think because ive used up my newbie time, and i need to approach training from a different, more purposeful angle. Now,

after much, mush online reading, from pman's site, powerhouse site, and a few others, i feel that i want to move to something more in line with 'power bodybuilding'. There are great examples of this in various guises - journals like steaks, the doc, mike zero etc. this topic is a good one and im hoping this thread creates some good discussion.

i want to maintain my 4 days a week, and am fathoming something along these lines:

mon upperbody low rep

tue lower body low rep

wed rest

thu upper body mod rep

fri lower body mod rep

sat rest

sun rest

mon upper higher rep

tues lower body high rep

wed rest

thur upper low rep

fri lower body low rep

so on.....

my primary goal from this year is to put on more muscle (of course), but to improve on the core lifts moreso. so the above is my first attempt at designing a 'periodisation' approach to training. mixing up the structure so that the low/med/hi reps follow in a staggered pattern instead of linear is another possibility. still nutting out the exes that id be using, but focussing on core lifts with a little accesory work - work to compliment the big 3.

ideas/critiques/discussion????

p.s - anyone who trains at Lesmills cbd, and is willing to sort my bench form, feel free to pm me - i know it can improve, and am keen to learn.

cue end of rant..

[steak]

what sort of sets volume ....oh and reps will you do?

ie: what does low rep day mean...singles? 3s, 4s, 5s?

and mod 6-8, high 10-12?

How many sets of the "compound exercise" and what exercises will follow if any eg: would you do flyes after 15 sets of low rep bench press or something more inline with assistance like floor presses, band work etc?

[startinfromscratch]

what sort of sets volume ....oh and reps will you do?

ie: what does low rep day mean...singles? 3s, 4s, 5s?

and mod 6-8, high 10-12?

How many sets of the "compound exercise" and what exercises will follow if any eg: would you do flyes after 15 sets of low rep bench press or something more inline with assistance like floor presses, band work etc?

low is less than 6

mod 6-10

high 10+

still nutting out the sets stuff, hoping for feedback - but following the concept that low rep days have more sets, trying to keep 'total weight moved' in the same ball park.

assistance would be tricep work/erectors/hammys/core, stuff like dips,goodmornings, yea anything that will help me progress my 3. dont think bands/etc are needed at my stage, but if this periodisation works as it should, would def be on the cards i think..

[Beef]

what's your diet like?

[startinfromscratch]

what's your diet like?

perfect. i know how to eat to grow, its just the training i needa change.

[ThePman]

The four-day undulating upper/lower workout thingy you've got up there is solid, IMO.

No need to go overboard with the exercises. For your low-rep day, pick one good lift to work on and do sets of 3-5 reps. I don't like giving out programs, but realistically you'll probably find 4-8 sets will be about your limit, if you're pushing it.

On the med-rep and high-rep days you can be a little more diverse, but I'd still try to keep the total exercises in check. As far as I'm concerned you don't need more than 1-2 exercises per body part, as long as you're putting enough effort into them.

EDIT: also I don't mind showing you how to bench w/ a decent set up. I suck at benching, but I do at least know how to do it right I dunno what times you're coming in though. We're usually in after 7pm on Weds/Fri and closer to mid-day or afternoon on Mondays.

[startinfromscratch]

The four-day undulating upper/lower workout thingy you've got up there is solid, IMO.

No need to go overboard with the exercises. For your low-rep day, pick one good lift to work on and do sets of 3-5 reps. I don't like giving out programs, but realistically you'll probably find 4-8 sets will be about your limit, if you're pushing it.

On the med-rep and high-rep days you can be a little more diverse, but I'd still try to keep the total exercises in check. As far as I'm concerned you don't need more than 1-2 exercises per body part, as long as you're putting enough effort into them.

EDIT: also I don't mind showing you how to bench w/ a decent set up. I suck at benching, but I do at least know how to do it right I dunno what times you're coming in though. We're usually in after 7pm on Weds/Fri and closer to mid-day or afternoon on Mondays.

i was hoping youd comment

yea, intend keeping to core bbell exes, and not alot of variations, eg legs just front and back squats..

ill take you up on that offer, im there early aftyernoons most days, but will make a trip to suit you if need be. il be in touch.

ps, good to meet you the other day!

[Beef]

yeah that site has convinced me to try a similar programme to you. i've also hit a plateau recently on a 5-day split. instead of doing upper/lower body split im gonna try a push/pull split

let us know how you get on.

[EMC]

i dont understand how you cannot grow at 5'10 if your eating almost a kilo of rice and a variety of good proteins.

even if you didnt know how to train properly but you went into the gym and gave your body a reason to grow it would. but from the limited posts ive read of your log you stretch warm up and train right so whats the problem?

do you have your full body routine anywhere?

[startinfromscratch]

i dont understand how you cannot grow at 5'10 if your eating almost a kilo of rice and a variety of good proteins.

even if you didnt know how to train properly but you went into the gym and gave your body a reason to grow it would. but from the limited posts ive read of your log you stretch warm up and train right so whats the problem?

do you have your full body routine anywhere?

growing is easy. but just smashing each muscle once a week the same way brings diminishing returns.. i beleive im at a point where il benefit from building up strength on the big 3 and 'supplementing' my periodisation with bbing. or, power bodybuilding!

im not saying i couldnt keep growing this way, just that i want to approach it a diff way :nod:

[Dr Squat]

Great thread bro. I'm a big fan of what the Pman has to say generally and you are getting the benefit of his wisdom for nothing so lap it up.

I'm not as smart or as scientific so I have to keep things pretty simple. I see a lot of guys come into the gym with the mission of getting big and strong. They say big and strong but mostly they mean "big". The problem is that they lack a clear vision or plan of how they are going to get there. So when it gets a bit tough they back off and go back to square one. In some cases they stop training altogether! I really don't understand this. :?

I think you are on the right track when you talk about power bodybuilding. I encourage guys to become active in the three powerlifts as part of their training as this immediately gives them a focus and allows them to set some real goals. This doesn't necessarily mean competing but I encourage this too. Even if at a club lift.

It is easy to become bogged down with all of the detail. Take on board what Pman has to say and set some goals bro. Small and realistic steps. Post them up for your mates on here to see and we can all help each other.

[startinfromscratch]

Great thread bro. I'm a big fan of what the Pman has to say generally and you are getting the benefit of his wisdom for nothing so lap it up.

I'm not as smart or as scientific so I have to keep things pretty simple. I see a lot of guys come into the gym with the mission of getting big and strong. They say big and strong but mostly they mean "big". The problem is that they lack a clear vision or plan of how they are going to get there. So when it gets a bit tough they back off and go back to square one. In some cases they stop training altogether! I really don't understand this. :?

I think you are on the right track when you talk about power bodybuilding. I encourage guys to become active in the three powerlifts as part of their training as this immediately gives them a focus and allows them to set some real goals. This doesn't necessarily mean competing but I encourage this too. Even if at a club lift.

It is easy to become bogged down with all of the detail. Take on board what Pman has to say and set some goals bro. Small and realistic steps. Post them up for your mates on here to see and we can all help each other.

:nod:

absolutely bro, matt's articles on his site are fucken awesome, and i plan on buying his ebook based on his articles.

all i want, at the end of the day, is to be sitting here in a years time with a stronger squat, bench and deadlift. the rest is details - and im still researching, and as the details of my 'plan' come together, i will be posting them up. and of course when it comes time to turn paper into sweat, il journal it too. :nod:

cheers for your input bro!

[Dr Squat]

:nod:

absolutely bro, matt's articles on his site are fucken awesome, and i plan on buying his ebook based on his articles.

all i want, at the end of the day, is to be sitting here in a years time with a stronger squat, bench and deadlift. the rest is details - and im still researching, and as the details of my 'plan' come together, i will be posting them up. and of course when it comes time to turn paper into sweat, il journal it too. :nod:

cheers for your input bro!

Sweet bro. Get into it and be careful not to make it too complex.

Fry and I are constantly challenging each other as to whether what we are doing is going to help improves the 3 lifts. We don't always agree! But that has to be the objective of our training- is this exercise going to help my weak points get stronger and therefore increase my squat, bench or deadlift?

[steak]

The problem is that they lack a clear vision or plan of how they are going to get there.

another kiler is not recognising what is working and whats not. something I'll admit too until recently :oops: something that sparked the change in my training to more of a powerbuilder programme in fact.

I think your really going to enjoy it bro especailly matched with some good tucker and achieving the little goals you set which will more than likely surprise you as your strength develops more 8)

[startinfromscratch]

The problem is that they lack a clear vision or plan of how they are going to get there.

another kiler is not recognising what is working and whats not. something I'll admit too until recently :oops: something that sparked the change in my training to more of a powerbuilder programme in fact.

I think your really going to enjoy it bro especailly matched with some good tucker and achieving the little goals you set which will more than likely surprise you as your strength develops more 8)

cosign that louie.

thats me - eating to grow isnt a problem, its my training thats no longer netting me results. so i am secretly hoping for that to happen. i feel im at a stage where (as the doc alluded to) guys get to a point when diminishing returns have forced a need for change. hard to admit, though shoulda done it ages ago. anyways..

some more details as i piece my plan together...

layout:

upper low rep (5's,3's,2's)

lower low rep

rest

upper med rep(6-8)

lower med rep

rest

rest

upper high rep(10+)

lower high rep

rest

the above would represent 1 'phase' or 'cycle'. ive been thinking on how best to incorporate progression into it, and have come up with this.. every 2 or maybe 3 cycles, ONE workout (low,med or hi) i will be adding weight to the core exes. after those cycles, those weights then stay static, and i focus on progressing on a diff range for 3 cycles. so, gradually, i should progress in overall strength.

what you guys think? fairly simple, but so am i..

as for core exes:

lower - back squats, front squats, hacks,legpress, deads.

upper - bench,bbell row,bbell shoulder presses(f+b)

not much variation, but thats a good thing. as for accessory exes:

lower - goodmornings, weighted back ext,core work??????????

upper - dips, chins,pullups, c/g pulldowns, shrugs,??????

any further suggestings on my proposal?

[Dr Squat]

Mate, simple is best in my world. Probably because I am simple.

I would pick one core exercise as your first exercise. The ones you list are fine. For lower body I like box squats and good mornings. For lower body it might be incline BB or decline BB??? I would cycle these every 2-3 weeks. This is classic Westside style. As soon as I can't break a record then I change my exercise the next week. I'm not a scientist but I know that my mind needs to be fresh. I get excited by the prospect of breaking new ground.

As far as your accessories go, this is where I would be focusing on weak points. For lower body it might be hamstrings. Choose your exercises to address these. 2-3 accessories is a good number in my view. Add a core movement in also.

I'm a convert as far as an online journal is concerned also. Helps to keep you accountable. There is the odd dickhead around who likes to have a crack. But they are usually the ones that don't have a lot to offer.

Get into it bro and start growing again.

[ThePman]

Mate, simple is best in my world.

This can't be said enough.

[rose]

There is the odd dickhead around who likes to have a crack. But they are usually the ones that don't have a lot to offer.

Sorry about that

[startinfromscratch]

points taken lads!

[Optimass]

Mate, simple is best in my world.

This can't be said enough.

echo ... echo ... echo I have found the simplest programs over the years have always netted the best results.

Everything else asside SFS - I think the fact that you have identified it's time to make a change will only lead to success. Many guys just keep doing the same old, same old. Every time you mix it up, you generally learn a lot more about how your body responds to different movements and styles.

IMO it doesn't hurt to break the rules every now and then either. You can be conditioned very easily into training one specific way in this sport. e.g training sessions under an hour - there are good reasons for keeping set volumes at a level where you don't go over an hour - but two weeks of 90 minute circuit training can add a different level of development that can be enough to push you over a plateu.

Look forward to seeing your progress :nod:

[bulking4ever]

though you've been making fun of me lately I'm still going to suggest you something... :pfft: Switch to hypertrophy training, 10 reps with time under tension 3+1+3...I'm sure you will be happy with the results...If you do, make sure you allow longer period for recovery before hitting the same muscle group...Cheers bro

[startinfromscratch]

though you've been making fun of me lately

i wasnt bro, serious - i just like to dress the threads up sometimes with gammy pics lol. its how i roll.

[Laver]

As soon as I started a 4-6 rep range "Power Building" as some of you have called it, I almost immediately stopped caring about my size and became much more interested in my max strength, which led to Powerlifting, and eventually Olympic Lifting, looking back I'm so glad I've followed a strength path - not stuck on stage dancing around in a g-string.

Enjoy your Journey.

[Dr Squat]

As soon as I started a 4-6 rep range "Power Building" as some of you have called it, I almost immediately stopped caring about my size and became much more interested in my max strength, which led to Powerlifting, and eventually Olympic Lifting, looking back I'm so glad I've followed a strength path - not stuck on stage dancing around in a g-string.

Enjoy your Journey.

Good thoughts bro.

I still think that it is possible to be strong and carry lots of muscle. Look at guys like Coan, Efferding, Konstantanovs. And Coleman, Dennis James, Justin Rhys just to name a select few. All of these guys are incredibly strong and have incredicle muscularity.

So I think it's all about how you train. "Power bodybuilding" for me is about all rep ranges. Max effort singles, doubles and triples but then lots of work around the 5-8 range and even higher reps of 10-15. I don't feel like I am getting any weaker when I do set of 5, 8 and 10 as oppossed to lower reps. If anything, the opposite.

Just my view. :nod:

[nate225]

I still think that it is possible to be strong and carry lots of muscle. Look at guys like Coan, Efferding, Konstantanovs. And Coleman, Dennis James, Justin Rhys just to name a select few. All of these guys are incredibly strong and have incredicle muscularity.

LOL Craig! Yes they're all strong & carry lots of muscle, but you missed one very obvious variable! I think Laver's squeaky clean so examples like Derek & Wayne Pomana (and probably a number of Chch PLers), Odd Haugen, the Gillinghams etc may have been more appropriate!

A natty might read the list and think "f*ck it, without 2 grams of test and a bucket of D's I'm fucked" :grin: Or maybe they wont notice the glaringly obvious! :grin:

How's training down your way? Got our first Atlas Stone in the water bath at the mo - can't wait, although it could be up to 165kg! :?