The direction of NABBA in NZ

[hawks]

Hello all

Despite all of the tooing and froing on this threed thus far i do belive that the majority of the post indicat one thing "change is needed"

as you have all seen my name is now attaced to the event Christchurch Grand Prix, yesterday i sent in my resignation as area rep to nabba nz hq and all of the other area reps, I whised them well in there endevors for there shows around the contry and in there efforts to come find a clear pathway for athleets to follow.

I personaly unfortunatly could not attend the AGM on the 30th however i tabled a lengty report outlining the concurns that the attletes in my region had and the outcome they would like to see, affiliation with NABBA/WFF

this having been said i and many others here in christchurch and around the contry have been in comunications with Greame Lancefeild for a long time, and he is a very Black and white stand up gentelman who from the start has wanted to see a resolution for New zealand competiters,.

i have compleat confidance in what we are doing and belive that by giving a stepping stone to our top level athlettes we are also incouraging our novice and local competiters to get in and suport the shows,

i urge any Body form any part of the country and from any federation to have a look at the NABBA/WFF websites,

We would also like to hear expersions of intrest in compeeting in this show, or any subsequent shows that we will be holding,

we will also be looking for anyone around the contry who is interested in becoming a judge

To the other New Zealand area reps thanks for your suportive words, also thanks for your help over the last few years whit the christchurch shows.

look forward to seeing you at the Christchurch Grand Prix and am i am excited for the future of the sport in new zealand

Kingsley Hannah

well said hope the christchurch shows go well

[Outlaw53]

Thank you Outlaw for your observations which are duly noted. Yes NABBA NZ is an incorporated society as is NABBA International in NZ. WE expect that there will be some backlash in this area & we are looking into the legalities of this from both sides of the Tasman.

Good luck with that mate.

To be honest I don't fancy your chances, if it were here in Australia I would back you into to lose, but I am not familiar with NZ law.

Some really good debate and passion shown in this thread.

It is quite obvious that 95% of NZders want "real" NABBA but it is unfortunate that the minority have the power.

I would suggest that if "fake" NABBA continues to hold power that competitors take matters into their own hands and simply stop supporting the shows.

This would obviously be hard on the local promoters who are doing a wonderful job running local shows, but there is going to be pain on both sides before this is resolved.

Change will happen eventually, its up to the competitors to continue to apply pressure to those in charge and force the change to happen.

NZFBB and Australia would no doubt welcome all NABBA NZ competitors.

[NZresident1]

I might just run a CCI in NZ :idea2: :pfft:

[Outlaw53]

I might just run a CCI in NZ :idea: :pf ft:

Good luck, Moe tried it and failed. :grin:

In all seriousness, I would love to see NZ getting a few independent styled promoters and comps running over there.

It is quite obvious that you would get the support off the competitors, you just need to get some sponsors behind you.

Have a think about it mate, I reckon it's a great idea.

[musclenz]

I might just run a CCI in NZ :idea: :pf ft:

Good luck, Moe tried it and failed. :grin:

In all seriousness, I would love to see NZ getting a few independent styled promoters and comps running over there.

It is quite obvious that you would get the support off the competitors, you just need to get some sponsors behind you.

Have a think about it mate, I reckon it's a great idea.

Get out of this thread with this blasphemy, Outlaw :pfft: :pfft: :pfft:

[agent86]

Compete wrote:

Due to the international financial crisis during 2008-9 the promoters of the NABBA International World and Universe Championships with which NABBA New Zealand is aligned had to cancel their events due to the withdrawal of sponsorship funds. This was naturally very disappointing to those athletes who had prepared with these in mind. During the latter half of 2009 I talked to Jim and suggested that the time had come when we had to look at re-combining with the “other” NABBA and give our athletes the opportunity of competing at the NABBA Universe as part of a New Zealand team. In late December Jim asked me to go to Palmerston North to further discuss this situation. He felt that due to the “Bad Blood” created during the break between the various factions of NABBA his continuing Presidency of NABBA New Zealand was a barrier preventing an amalgamation of the organizations. He proposed that if I was agreeable he would retire as President of NABBA New Zealand if I would accept the post of President and assist the combination of the two organizations. If this was agreeable he was prepared to stand aside from all participation in NABBA New Zealand affairs.

Considering that Jim Pitt had spent 20 years in founding and organizing NABBA New Zealand this was a huge concession to make. My reply was that I was prepared to do this on the condition that any action taken was ratified by the Executive Committee of NABBA New Zealand either at the Annual Meeting or a subsequent meeting dependent on the progress of negotiations. After this meeting with Jim I e-mailed a letter to Graeme Lancefield, World President of NABBA, and Klaus Hoffman, outlining the situation and quote;

“This is a time for new directions, and I am looking to develop new opportunities for our New Zealand athletes to compete at International Events. I would like to send a NABBA New Zealand Representative Team to compete at the 2010 NABBA International World Championships, which I understand are being held in Malta.”

The reply I received from Graeme contained these conditions:

“Firstly, you would need to resign your position within the INBA as we see this as a conflict of interest and a monopoly on NZ bodybuilding.

( 2 ) NABBA is a democratic Association and there must be a registered vote by only legitimate delegates at your AGM on January 30th.

( 3 ) The NABBA NZ website would need to eliminate all reference to Jose Lopez as World President and the fake NABBA International.

( 4 ) The future administration and promotion of NABBA NZ must exclude the involvement of Jim Pitt, his son and his partner Marianne Poole.

( 5 ) The NABBA HQ must not be registered in Palmerston North.”

I do not have a problem with Graeme setting out some conditions, after all this is a basis for negotiation, and it is up to NABBA NZ and the persons concerned to accept, reject or offer a compromise for further negotiation. What I do have misgivings about is the forwarding of my correspondence to other parties in New Zealand and posting it on forums before the NABBA NZ Executive Meeting have had a chance to consider these conditions. This does not seem a constructive or professional approach to the situation but this is my own opinion.

At the NABBA New Zealand Congress meeting all correspondence concerning this matter was discussed and the delegates attending were unanimous in rejecting the conditions requested by Graeme. A letter stating this has been sent to Graeme. I have also talked personally to Graeme to see if there was some way that a compromise could be reached but he is adamant that these conditions must be met before he would allow teams from NABBA New Zealand to compete in the NABBA International events.

For most NABBA New Zealand members there will be no obvious change. They can still compete against their fellow athletes in the events which are well managed by the local representatives and compete internationally in any events that NABBA New Zealand support. For those who wish to compete in the NABBA World Championships and NABBA Universe Graeme says that they are welcome to qualify in Australia and I have no quarrel with that. After all one of the first things that impressed me about NABBA New Zealand was the fact that they placed no barriers for people from other organizations who wished to compete with them or for their members who wanted to compete in non NABBA events while still NABBA members. Unfortunately, they would need to be fully self funded.

To those who have stated in this forum that Jim Pitt has ruined NABBA New Zealand please note that our National Championships had well over a 100 contestants and the Overall Winners were of a high standard.

Not everybody aspires to be a Mr Universe or Ms Olympia.

Thanks for getting on this forum and giving your point of view. As much as you don't like people going on about this issue it is a problem that has been acute for over 2 years now. The failure of The 2008 Universe and 2009 World's can not be blamed on the financial crisis as Nabba?WFF and NAC still managed to conduct their events. Support of our International events was already low before that.

The problem has been the delay in doing anything solid as it was apparent last April when the World's fell through. Nothing was done until December as I emailed Graeme and he had had no contact from Nabba NZ.

Then we had to wait till the end of January before a letter could be sent to Graeme. No wonder people were putting Graeme's emails on line.

It is February when competitors should be starting diets and planning things but it is not sorted.

I appreciate your good intentions but things have just been operating at a snails pace and people have just got a bit frustrated.

It was great to get your reply as it sorted a lot of issues out but this communication is what is lacking sometimes.

[hawks]

Basically we can go on and on about this forever but there needs to be a change , it is of no consequence if there was 100 , 200 or even three hundred

competitors , that has nothing to do with the federation been in good hands or not , niether is it of any consequence if some body has been running a federation for 20 years , i have spoken to alot of athletes that have been around for a long time and they are not happy with the way things are been run . I believe in spain a few years ago the federation organised the athletes accomodation , imagine there suprise when they found out they were getting charged more than what the motel actually charged . I know organisers from shows that are dumfounded were all the profit had gone . Goodness me at the Napier show last year the lady that was selling the tickets was asked if she wanted to judge , never been in a gym let alone even been to a bodybuilding show , now if you have been dieting for 4 months you would want people with some experiance judging you.I could go on but there is not much point i hope for the sake of the competitors there is a change and that NABBA takes a new direction.

[SportsGuru]

We Have :nod: \:D/

http://www.facebook.com/photo_search.ph ... 553&ref=ts

[NZresident1]

Gotta have my say it has been boiling for a while as I am British.

NABBA UK is the one and only true NABBA, formed in 1950.

The Mr Universe is NABBA UK by right of passage.

This next line is important

The Mr Universe was to be run and opened up to all world wide organisations, not just select groups as it runs today

In 1984 NABBA International was formed the events to be added were the NABBA Worlds and the NABBA European Champs.

Somewhere along the way Mr Universe became part of the International arm, yup us Brits messed up.

Then things changed and instead of the flagship show being recognised as NABBA "Mr Universe" and open to everyone and every Country the powers took this and bastardised it into NABBA this Country and NABBA that Country.

Skip forward to 2000 Mr Universe

A meeting was held of all Countries, this was where things got messy.

at the time GL was in office as interim President for The Australian arm of NABBA, which from 1984 to today Joe Lopez area of command.

GL was given a vote of confidence at the time by some of the Countries present and JL was given a vote of confidence by Countries present as well

Ivan Dunbar was World president at this time and Klaus Hoffman was and still is General Secretary of NABBA and WFF International, however at the same timeframe Klaus Hoffman was also and still is WFF World President as he had set this organisation up.

The Countries that were involved with JL diasagreed with WFF being around as it directly competed with NABBA events, so cast a no vote got up and left the meeting.

The remaining arm of the now NABBA and WFF followers continued on claiming ownership of all NABBA shows because UK stayed seated.

with me so far.

So any ways NABBA Inc was formed and continued to try and run as the stand alone organisation that everyone in here refers to as fake.

Not true calling them fake because they were still duly elected NABBA officials as it stood and no one from the original meeting had accepted there resignation.

So the group now running NABBA and WFF actually messed it up by not standing down duly elected Countries, which NABBA NZ was one of.

Skip to 2006 NABBA Inc Mr Universe Cuxhaven Germany, this show was advertised as such NABBA Mr Universe.Inc by duly elected Countries, part of this group was NAC which were to run the NABBA.Inc Mr Universe in Germany.

When each Country showed up the name had been changed to NAC Mr Universe instead of NABBA.Inc Mr Universe, so another split occured and the original group carried on once more on there own as NABBA.Inc.

Skip to 2008 India was meant to run and host this event they told all that they were capabale and would do so, then at the last moment they pulled the plug.

Now concerning the thread direction of NABBA NZ.

NABBA NZ was formed in 1990 and was duly elected to that position by the same group that are running the NABBA and WFF shows at present day they were not stood down and are by right still the official NABBA NZ.

Okay had my say I am not here to infuriate people because people will decide for themselves it was a point I felt needed to be said.

All I can see happening of the current events is it will spiral out of control and become another big mess.

I myself will support NABBA NZ shows as they are the genuine article for New Zealand competitions and i will watch to see how things go on the International scene.

Because as a local level competitor I do not want to comptete overseas, I will spend my money in New Zealand.

IMO all organisations in any Countries should be able to enter the Mr Universe run buy NABBA UK can you imagine the size of the event if it was done this way.

[SportsGuru]

all fair comments on the history

lets foucus on the future

At this point in time the way forward for NZ athleets to compete on the universe stage is to ether travel to Austrialia or Christchurch or both

as you have said nzresident, it would be great to be able to be one happy faimily and all compete on the same Universe stage,

[Ann]

Your British - ok - and?

Its funny how you have managed to put your own spin on this. Well its not funny - its typical.

For those who are interested in the history of Nabba and its beginnings

http://www.nabba-international.com

[NZresident1]

Your British - ok - and?

Its funny how you have managed to put your own spin on this. Well its not funny - its typical.

/quote]

You have issues

Spin no it is time both sides have a say

Pull your head out of the sand and see both sides

[Ann]

You have issues

Spin no it is time both sides have a say

Pull your head out of the sand and see both sides

No mate - you're the only one that has issues here. You've posted - what - maybe a maximum of 17 posts? All the while, you haven't got a clue what you have been talking about since then and you still don't. Tell me - how long did it take for you to come up with that amount of waffle that you've been spewing? Must have been difficult for you - afterall it took you a while to post it. Congratulations must still go out to you though - you tried - and still failed.

As for my head out of the sand and see both sides statement... perhaps it is you that needs to do that. Here's one for you - however, you probably won't accept it. Come to Napier, meet me in town for a coffee - let's say Ujazi's - Tennyson Street - then you can express your own opinions over a cup of java with me. I'd be very surprised if you accept that.....waiting.....

[Grover]

:clap:

This thread is more interesting than some novels I have reead lately.

Lets see if we can inject gym rat and his film crew in here and start a mini series!

On a sensible note, there have been several offers of a sit down and discuss over a coffee etc, surely that has to be a start/way forward.

Nothing to lose

[Ann]

This thread is more interesting than some novels I have reead lately.

There's more novels on this forum than there is in a public library mate! :pfft:

Gym Rat .... he rocks! Mini Series? What would you call it? :grin:

On a sensible note, there have been several offers of a sit down and discuss over a coffee etc, surely that has to be a start/way forward.

Nothing to lose

Nabba/WFF is up and running and going forward - awesome news.

You said it Grover - there is nothing to lose. My husband and I have put out offers for a chat over coffee or just a talk in general but no-ones come forward yet.

[Grover]

Wouldn't dare suggest a name for a mini series as bound to be shot down in flames!

Having been involved in many organisations/committees etc over the years you always find that it is left to a few to do the work of many.Meanwhile the arm chair critics are quick to point out faults ( that get me burnt!).

I applaud everyone that is prepared to stand up and be counted :clap:

Yes great to see Christchurch event up and running, maybe next year I too will be there!

One thing I have found over the years is that it is always helpful to have at least 1 existing member of a board/committee on the new one.

The experience that these people have (whether you think they have achieved anything or not) is invaluable to a) save time utilising existing knowledge/contacts b) often previous boards etc have already covered many items and can extract answers straight away etc rather than reinventing the wheel every change of board etc.

[musclenz]

Gotta have my say it has been boiling for a while as I am British.

NABBA UK is the one and only true NABBA, formed in 1950.

The Mr Universe is NABBA UK by right of passage.

This next line is important

The Mr Universe was to be run and opened up to all world wide organisations, not just select groups as it runs today

In 1984 NABBA International was formed the events to be added were the NABBA Worlds and the NABBA European Champs.

Somewhere along the way Mr Universe became part of the International arm, yup us Brits messed up.

Then things changed and instead of the flagship show being recognised as NABBA "Mr Universe" and open to everyone and every Country the powers took this and bastardised it into NABBA this Country and NABBA that Country.

Skip forward to 2000 Mr Universe

A meeting was held of all Countries, this was where things got messy.

at the time GL was in office as interim President for The Australian arm of NABBA, which from 1984 to today Joe Lopez area of command.

GL was given a vote of confidence at the time by some of the Countries present and JL was given a vote of confidence by Countries present as well

Ivan Dunbar was World president at this time and Klaus Hoffman was and still is General Secretary of NABBA and WFF International, however at the same timeframe Klaus Hoffman was also and still is WFF World President as he had set this organisation up.

The Countries that were involved with JL diasagreed with WFF being around as it directly competed with NABBA events, so cast a no vote got up and left the meeting.

The remaining arm of the now NABBA and WFF followers continued on claiming ownership of all NABBA shows because UK stayed seated.

with me so far.

So any ways NABBA Inc was formed and continued to try and run as the stand alone organisation that everyone in here refers to as fake.

Not true calling them fake because they were still duly elected NABBA officials as it stood and no one from the original meeting had accepted there resignation.

So the group now running NABBA and WFF actually messed it up by not standing down duly elected Countries, which NABBA NZ was one of.

Skip to 2006 NABBA Inc Mr Universe Cuxhaven Germany, this show was advertised as such NABBA Mr Universe.Inc by duly elected Countries, part of this group was NAC which were to run the NABBA.Inc Mr Universe in Germany.

When each Country showed up the name had been changed to NAC Mr Universe instead of NABBA.Inc Mr Universe, so another split occured and the original group carried on once more on there own as NABBA.Inc.

Skip to 2008 India was meant to run and host this event they told all that they were capabale and would do so, then at the last moment they pulled the plug.

Now concerning the thread direction of NABBA NZ.

NABBA NZ was formed in 1990 and was duly elected to that position by the same group that are running the NABBA and WFF shows at present day they were not stood down and are by right still the official NABBA NZ.

Okay had my say I am not here to infuriate people because people will decide for themselves it was a point I felt needed to be said.

All I can see happening of the current events is it will spiral out of control and become another big mess.

I myself will support NABBA NZ shows as they are the genuine article for New Zealand competitions and i will watch to see how things go on the International scene.

Because as a local level competitor I do not want to comptete overseas, I will spend my money in New Zealand.

IMO all organisations in any Countries should be able to enter the Mr Universe run buy NABBA UK can you imagine the size of the event if it was done this way.

NZR, I really appreciate your contributions. I am not going to debate with you on your post other than to say that you are correct in some points you make but I feel you still do not have the whole story. In any event I do not think it productive now to our cause to get involved in the past mistakes made by all parties concerned. However, with regard to the piece about spending your money in NZ, I have to advise you that the CHC Grand Prix is wholly funded by local money. Sponsors are being finalised as we speak. In the interim some funding is being covered by members. That's how passionate & resolved we are to making this work.

[musclenz]

Well guys the interest in this thread has been massive. Over 5000 views & nearly 200 posts. On behalf of all the CH Ch Organising Group, I would just like to take this opportunity to say thanks to all of you for you overwhelming support on this very important issue for Bodybuilding in New Zealand. I believe we are at a turning point in the way BBing is run & administered in NZ. We are certainly not complacent in that we realise that this is a huge task to pull off in a short time frame, but we are a passionate & committed team & will do our very best to make the CH Grand Prix Championships a great show. We now need your support. So please if you would like to make any suggestions, offers of help, sponsorship or contribute in any way we would appreciate your input via any of those listed on the event calendar or on the competition thread. We are also on Facebook & other forums.

Kind Regards,

Rod Bailey

musclenz@yahoo.com.au

[agent86]

What happens if Nabba NZ align with NAC? We will have 2 International routes available. This is a real possibility if New Zealand are not allowed to join Nabba UK.

[Ann]

What happens if Nabba NZ align with NAC? We will have 2 International routes available. This is a real possibility if New Zealand are not allowed to join Nabba UK.

Hi 86, if Nabba NZ choose to align with NAC - then they will. Yes, there will be two International routes available that competitors will be able to access. However, this will never be with the first original amateur bodybuilding federation Nabba - from where the Universe Title first began. At the end of the day, what will be, will be :nod:

[Grego]

What happens if Nabba NZ align with NAC? We will have 2 International routes available. This is a real possibility if New Zealand are not allowed to join Nabba UK.

Hi 86, if Nabba NZ choose to align with NAC - then they will. Yes, there will be two International routes available that competitors will be able to access. However, this will never be with the first original amateur bodybuilding federation Nabba - from where the Universe Title first began. At the end of the day, what will be, will be :nod:

Well said :nod:

[bigmd]

i have spoken to alot of athletes that have been around for a long time and they are not happy with the way things are been run . I believe in spain a few years ago the federation organised the athletes accomodation , imagine there suprise when they found out they were getting charged more than what the motel actually charged . I know organisers from shows that are dumfounded were all the profit had gone .

As an IFBB member im just watching this post from the side line but the above comment was also true of the 2005 worlds in Greece when i was a NABBA competitor. Opting for a studio room for myself and 3 supporters i was charged 180 Euro per night for 7 nights, only to find if we had walked off the street or booked myself the room would have been 115 euro per night. Then the interesting part, we had to pay the whole stay in CASH the night before the show, other wise I was not allowed to compete and they were going to lock my brother out of the hotel at 8pm(he was away on a day trip till 10pm). i made Jim very awear of this at the time and did so for a number of months after the event with nothing done. I traveled with NABBA as a competitor or supporter (with an ex partner) to france, spain, cannery islands, germany and greece. from 2001 till 2005 and apart from germany on each occasion there has always been issues with communication/travel/show professionalsim/accomidation etc. I even sat in on some of the congress meetings where JP was the vice pres and the meeting was held in spanish and he had no idea what they were discussing or he was dosing off to sleep :roll: His decision not to step aside and let the young blood drive the organisation is not one that will do NABBA NZ any good.

[hawks]

i have spoken to alot of athletes that have been around for a long time and they are not happy with the way things are been run . I believe in spain a few years ago the federation organised the athletes accomodation , imagine there suprise when they found out they were getting charged more than what the motel actually charged . I know organisers from shows that are dumfounded were all the profit had gone . quote]

As an IFBB member im just watching this post from the side line but the above comment was also true of the 2005 worlds in Greece when i was a NABBA competitor. Opting for a studio room for myself and 3 supporters i was charged 180 Euro per night for 7 nights, only to find if we had walked off the street or booked myself the room would have been 115 euro per night. Then the interesting part, we had to pay the whole stay in CASH the night before the show, other wise I was not allowed to compete and they were going to lock my brother out of the hotel at 8pm(he was away on a day trip till 10pm). i made Jim very awear of this at the time and did so for a number of months after the event with nothing done. I traveled with NABBA as a competitor or supporter (with an ex partner) to france, spain, cannery islands, germany and greece. from 2001 till 2005 and apart from germany on each occasion there has always been issues with communication/travel/show professionalsim/accomidation etc. I even sat in on some of the congress meetings where JP was the vice pres and the meeting was held in spanish and he had no idea what they were discussing or he was dosing off to sleep :roll: His decision not to step aside and let the young blood drive the organisation is not one that will do NABBA NZ any good.

Good to get a post from someone that has been around as long as you and with your experiance Mike , maybe the experts will realize i was not talking shit after all . :pfft:

[musclenz]

Thanks Mike for your comments based on your considerable personal experience. Not a situation that any competing athlete should have to deal with for sure leading up to an international event. I think you will find that the organisation & professionalism with NABBA/WFF International is far superior. It will be our prime objective to bring this through to regional & national show level in NZ as well.

[Grego]

I think you will find that the organisation & professionalism with NABBA/WFF International is far superior.

Yeah, just don't send GL an Email or it might get plastered all over New Zealand. Professionalism? Sounds like a good Tui billboard mate! :pfft:

That aside, as I love bodybuilding, I wish you well for the show, I have certainly wished Kingsley well. I will be at the INBA Dubbo show so won't be able to attend. Funny, It'll be cheaper to go there than to fly to Christchurch!

Really though, this has to be said; no matter what Fed you choose, there will be the odd controversial moment (remember another Fed in NZ changing the rules at the last moment recently for a friend to compete?) and also the odd slip up. I am not diluting what Mike said, not by any means, I can only imagine how I would have felt had that happened to me; it was bad enough finding out days before jumping on a fully booked flight to Spain for the "Worlds" last year.

Cheers

Grego