My cutting diet

[Pseudonym]

Some time ago, I said I'd post my current cutting diet, since it was a bit different from the norm. Then I forgot all about it.

So, without further ado...

On a workout day:

[table][mrow]-[col]Protein (g)[col]Carbs (g)[col]Fat (g)[col]Calories

[row]Meal 1 [col]42 [col]20 [col]10 [col]342

[row]Meal 2 [col]42 [col]20 [col]10 [col]342

[row]Meal 3 [col]42 [col]5 [col]8 [col]257

[row]Meal 4 [col]5 [col]20 [col]0 [col]100

[row]Meal 5 [col]60 [col]60 [col]8 [col]553

[row]Meal 6 [col]60 [col]60 [col]10 [col]553

[row]Total [col]251 [col]186 [col]47 [col]2169[/table]

Workout is between meals 3 and 4. Note the tapering off of carbs beforehand. Meal 4 is immediately post-workout, and designed to prevent catabolism, but not replace glycogen stores completely. This leaves you in fat-burning mode until meal 5, an hour later.

On a non-workout day, the totals are the same, but distributed evenly across 6 meals.

And there you have it. Discuss.

[char_k]

Curious to know what your weight and body fat % is at the moment.

[frogie2001]

looks like your meal 4 is backwards, should the proteing not be at around 20gm and the carbs at 5.

apart from that it looks good for your size. keep the cardio up and work hard, are you taking any thermogenics with this?

[Pseudonym]

I'm currently 89.5kg, 13% BF according to a six-site caliper test I had done the other day. I was a bit disappointed with that - I'd hoped I was around 13% when I started cutting 6 weeks ago (I was 92-93kg then). In hindsight, that obviously wasn't the case, so I hate to think what my BF was initially!

I've used this diet a couple of times before, although I've scaled everything up slightly now I'm a wee bit bigger. The first time I used it, the results were amazing - the fat just melted off, with no cardio until two weeks out from the comp (my competition countdown log has more details on this).

This time around, the results haven't been quite so spectacular, and it could be for a number of reasons.

- So far, I haven't really been measuring my meals much. I've adapted what everyone else was eating to what I thought was the right amount. But I've decided the time has come, and I'm now knuckling down and obsessively weighing my meals to the nearest gram...

- Different thermogenic. I've been using some Prolab Therma Pro I've had leftover from last season. Back then I didn't think it was as effective as the EAS ThermoDynamX product I used before that, and I'm still not convinced is Therma Pro quite as good.

- Changed metabolism. This one concerns me - could my body be getting used to these cutting phases? Will it require more and more effort to lean up? Will I eventually have to spend 12 weeks eating nothing but lettuce in order to shed the fat?

Anyway, as I say, I've started doing the diet properly now, and I'm soon going to need a new thermogenic, so that will answer the first two points.

Oh, and Frogie? Cardio is a dirty word. Wash your mouth out, boy!

[jono]

wow if i ate that little amount of food i would be starving and surly would go into a coma

[ExpensiveUrine]

So you haven't actually measured your body composition (caliper) before and after those times that you have tried it?

[Pseudonym]

Not sure what you mean, EU... I didn't measure when I started cutting (such as it was) this time round. But I'd guess I've dropped 2-3% so far.

If you mean have I got measurements for the other times I used it - yes, I have. Check out my competition log in the journals forums.

[BIGKIWI]

Can you give me approx times of your meals ? and I will put my 2 cents in , also your exact goal for the diet and length e.g lose fat , while staying stronger

[ExpensiveUrine]

Not sure what you mean, EU... I didn't measure when I started cutting (such as it was) this time round. But I'd guess I've dropped 2-3% so far.

If you mean have I got measurements for the other times I used it - yes, I have. Check out my competition log in the journals forums.

Yeah I was referring to caliper readings during the diet, that you used during other times of contest preparation/cutting.

In your past journal, measurements start from 21st of May (2004) through to 27th of June (2004) (I'm not counting the last one, because it doesn't tell us very much). So this gives us roughly 7 weeks, whereas you did a 12 week cut. Any measurements (bf %) for those 5 weeks?

[char_k]

Meal 4 is immediately post-workout, and designed to prevent catabolism, but not replace glycogen stores completely. This leaves you in fat-burning mode until meal 5, an hour later.

Wouldn't immediately post-workout be the best time to have carbs, especially if you're cutting?

Quoting from http://www.oxygenmag.net/showthread.php ... =body+life:

Your body is like a sponge after a workout - nutrient uptake and sensitivity is at its highest. This is pretty much the safest period of time to eat and also the most opportune time.

You want to suppress cortisol (muscle wasting hormone), decrease protein breakdown, increase protein synthesis, promote recovery, restore glycogen levels, etc

The ability of your muscles to take up nutrients declines as you move farther away from the workout. You want to take maximum advantage of the heightened sensitivity to nutrients.

And if you consider that most carbohydrate ingested during and immediately after exercise will either be oxidized for fuel or sent to the muscle and liver for glycogen resynthesis and that even in the presence of increased insulin concentrations, the postexercise period is marked by a dramatic increase in fat metabolism

[Pseudonym]

BigKiwi - right now, all the meals are running late! I need to move my bodyclock forward a few hours...

Meal 1 - 10.30am

Meal 2 - 2pm

Meal 3 - 4.30pm

Meal 4 - 8pm (immediately post workout)

Meal 5 - 9pm

Meal 6 - 11.30pm :oops:

That would be the one main criticism I have of this diet - that the first three meals are spaced too far apart. I am considering taking meals 1+2 and splitting them into 3 smaller meals to eat more often.

EU - sorry, the BF test from week 7 used quite a different scale to any other, so no, I'm afraid I don't have other tests further back to compare them with. However, although my log started at 12 weeks out, and technically I started cutting then, in reality it was more just being controlled in what I ate. It wasn't until 9 weeks out that I got this diet plan, which means the first BF test is only two weeks later.

Char_k - that could well be true. Unfortunately the guy that designed it has moved to Australia, so I can't ask him how it works. All I can say is that it does work (or at least, it has in the past), and guess at why. So here's my guess, in very layman's terms because I'm no expert...

Meal 5 sits right on the edge of the famous "hour of opportunity" you have post-workout. By tapering off the carbs throughout the day, you are essentially training on your reserve tank of glycogen - the liver. By the time you've finished the workout, you are severely carb-depleted. Meal 4 (immediately post-workout) prevents catabolism by blunting the edge of this severity - but it's not enough to refill your reserve tank. So over the next hour, until meal 5 arrives with all its carby goodness, your body attempts to top up your glycogen reserves in the liver by converting fat back into glycogen.

To address any concerns about carbs before bed, I think (and again this is only hypothesis) because you're so carb-depleted, the last thing your body wants to do is waste carbs by turning them to fat. In fact, when I was doing this at a really low BF levels, by the time I got to meal 6, I would often be shaking slightly - a sign of low blood sugar. I thought that was rather cool!

Now, as I say, I'm no expert, so I've probably got some things slightly wrong. I'd love to know how this diet really works, so if anyone can correct me, please do!

[Pseudonym]

Well, since I'd just about finished the remains of my Therma Pro, I went and got some more ThermoDynamX today. I figured this would take one variable out of the equation... Also, it was on a two-for-the-price-of-one special, which was very nice!

I was surprised to see that it didn't have any synephrine in it. The ingredients it did have were in massive amounts though.

Here's the data for Therma Pro...

Coleus forskohlii root Extract - 125 mg

^ (Forskohlin - 25 mg)

Bitter Orange Rind Extract - 334 mg

^ (Synephrine - 20 mg)

Caffeine - 200 mg

White Willow Bark Powder - 75 mg

Cayenne Pepper - 50 mg

Ginger Root Powder - 40 mg

And here's ThermoDynamX...

Green Tea - 550 mg

Caffeine - 200 mg

Cayenne Fruit - 500 mg

Chocolate (theobromine) - 200 mg

Ginger - 100 mg

See what I mean? ThermoDynamX has 10 times more cayenne pepper - that should get the body temperature up a bit! :shock:

As a side issue, I've had chronic sinus problems for years. Contricted nasal passages, no sense of smell, several operations to remove polyp growths... that sort of thing. It comes and goes a bit, but mostly it's just there. However, I think -I think- while I was preparing for a competition last year, my nose was slightly clearer. I was taking ThermoDynamX then. Is it possible the pepper and ginger would unblock clogged sinuses? I'll start using it in a few day, so I guess we'll find out...

[deegee]

That thermodynamix sounds good I like the cyanne stuff works well for me. Hope you get your clock fixed up thats a long spell between the last meal at night and then the first in the morning.

[jono]

are you doing any cardio ?

just my opinion.. but when cutting i would rather do a good amount of cardio.. why ? cos it would allow you to keep you calories much higher.. and much better chance of keeping muscle

personally i think cutting without cardio is not a good idea. as you can see from your diet you basically have hardly any food there.. if you had cardio you could eat a LOT more..

my 2c

[Brad]

I'm with Jono - but then I actually like cardio sometimes?!?! I know, I'm a freak to some :shifty:

does seem like too little - but if it's worked before go with and if you find it's not working change it up?

[Marcus]

My view on this is keep protein really high, keep training heavy, do cardio, & just have enough carbs to fuel yourself & workouts.

[andrew_k]

Meal 5 sits right on the edge of the famous "hour of opportunity" you have post-workout. By tapering off the carbs throughout the day, you are essentially training on your reserve tank of glycogen - the liver. By the time you've finished the workout, you are severely carb-depleted. Meal 4 (immediately post-workout) prevents catabolism by blunting the edge of this severity - but it's not enough to refill your reserve tank. So over the next hour, until meal 5 arrives with all its carby goodness, your body attempts to top up your glycogen reserves in the liver by converting fat back into glycogen.

To address any concerns about carbs before bed, I think (and again this is only hypothesis) because you're so carb-depleted, the last thing your body wants to do is waste carbs by turning them to fat. In fact, when I was doing this at a really low BF levels, by the time I got to meal 6, I would often be shaking slightly - a sign of low blood sugar. I thought that was rather cool!

Now, as I say, I'm no expert, so I've probably got some things slightly wrong. I'd love to know how this diet really works, so if anyone can correct me, please do!

Just a couple of things to note here. The process of creating glucose (D-glucose) from non-carbohydate precursors is called gluconeogenesis. In a state of carbohydrate depletion the primary precursors for gluconeogenesis are amino acids and glycerol. Amino acids are the building blocks of protein and structurally resemble a simple sugar with nitrogen attached. Nearly all of them can be readily converted to the substrates or chemicals required for gluconeogenesis by simply stripping off the nitrogen, a process called deamination. Note that both muscle as well as dietary protein can be a source of amino acids with severe carb deprivation.

The other primary gluconeogenesis precursor in a carb depleted state is glycerol. Glycerol is the "backbone" of triacylglycerols. Otherwise known as triglycerides, triacylglycerols are the major components of adipose tissue (good ol' bodyfat). They are made from a glycerol molecule esterified with 3 fatty acids. It is the fatty acids that are oxidised to produce energy when needed, such as in aerobic activity that persists for a reasonable length of time or in a negative energy balance state. That is, it is the fatty acids that are our "energy store". So is fat converted to glucose in the liver? Essentially no. Importantly though we can note that it is essential to maintain some carb input to prevent deamination of amino acids from occurring to too great an extent.

So what is happening with this diet then? I believe it is working by regulating your insulin levels. Your body maintains very tight controls over its internal chemical environment. The levels of all biochemicals are constantly maintained within very narrow ranges. This process is called homeostasis. When you eat a carb rich meal, particularly so in the case of one containing a lot of simple sugars and not a lot of bulk, you get a marked increase in your blood sugar levels. Your bodies response to this is to increase insulin secretion from the pancreas. Insulin is a hormone, and hormones are simply the bodies chemical messengers. Cells that contain receptors for a particular hormone will respond to its "message". Its kind of like a lock and key affair, with the hormone being the "key", the receptor on the surface of the cell being the "lock". Liver cells, muscle cells and adipocytes (fat cells) all have insulin receptors on their surfaces. The liver and muscle cells respond to the insulin by absorbing more glucose from the blood, converting it to glycogen internally. Adipocytes however convert it to body fat, to be burnt at a later time. What most people don't realise is that these processes occur after every meal. Fat storage and fat burning take place on a daily (hourly) basis. For those people whose daily energy input outweighs their energy output however this results in an accumulation of body fat over time, as the fat storage process is occurring at a greater rate than the fat burning one. With your diet however, primarily due to its lower carb content you are minimising the effects of insulin, particularly at nightime which is essential. As well you are in a negative energy balance, your energy expenditure is greater than your energy input. Hence you are minimising the fat storage and maximising the fat burning, resulting in an overall fat loss. To maintain the fat burning however my advice would be to increase your carb intake to almost normal levels once every fourth or fifth day. You may need to experiment here. Our bodies are simply remarkably adaptive. All the chemical reactions that occur within the body are catalysed (chemically aided or triggered) by enzymes. Enzyme profiles or levels alter within days when environmental changes occur. That is, the body responds very quickly to new environments (as in your diet) and starts to increase the production of those enzymes that trigger or catalyse the reactions that help it to cope with the "new environment". By increasing your carbs periodically we confuse the body a bit!

Hope this is of some help.

[Pseudonym]

Thanks, Andrew. Nice post - I think we'll keep you around!

A couple of questions though...

With your diet however, primarily due to its lower carb content you are minimising the effects of insulin, particularly at nightime which is essential.

I have my biggest carb meals at night. Why does this not produce much insulin? Is it because the diet throughout the day, together with the training, leaves me with blood sugar levels that are so low that even the carb meal doesn't spike them high enough to trigger insulin?

To maintain the fat burning however my advice would be to increase your carb intake to almost normal levels once every fourth or fifth day.

I'm a big believer in changing things often to keep your body confused. But I had assumed this effect was being achieved by have the same diet even on non-training days. That is, on days where the caloric expenditure wasn't so high, the caloric deficit would not be so great. Is this not the case?

[andrew_k]

Thanks, Andrew. Nice post - I think we'll keep you around!

Thanks for this. I really was worried everyone would complain about another know-it-all wise ass telling everyone what to think!

I have my biggest carb meals at night. Why does this not produce much insulin? Is it because the diet throughout the day, together with the training, leaves me with blood sugar levels that are so low that even the carb meal doesn't spike them high enough to trigger insulin?

You're on the right track. A few comments first though. There is always some sort of insulin response following the consumption of carbs. The degree of this response however depends not only on the quantity of carbs consumed but also their type. Simple sugars (eg. a big glass of coke) for instance will give you a huge blood sugar spike and a big insulin hit as a result. Often so much so that your blood sugar ends up lower than it was prior to consumption, with a subsequent drop in energy levels. Complex carbs in high fibre foods release their glucose payload into the bloodstream much, much more slowly. Insulin levels will still rise, but to a much lower extent.

Blood sugar levels are normally maintained between 0.8 and 1.0 g/litre of blood (homeostasis again, everything is monitored and controlled). Even on a lower carb diet your body will maintain these levels, albeit towards the lower end of the scale. However, your body requires about 70 - 120g of carbs per day simply for the function of organs such as the brain, testes, erythrocytes and kidney medulla, for whom glucose is the sole source of energy. As you are ingesting only around 185g carbs daily you are barely consuming enough to cover the needs of these organs plus the cost of training. So its not that your blood sugar is low (this is maintained), rather its that your body glycogen levels (muscular and liver) will be a little depleted. This combined with the fact that you will be consuming complex carbs contributes to the efficacy of the diet for you. Having said that, have you experimented with increasing the carbs around the middle of the day and decreasing them at night? Anything consumed in excess during the day is more likely to be burned off due to higher activity levels. Anything not needed consumed prior to sleeping is more likely to be stored as fat.

I'm a big believer in changing things often to keep your body confused. But I had assumed this effect was being achieved by have the same diet even on non-training days. That is, on days where the caloric expenditure wasn't so high, the caloric deficit would not be so great. Is this not the case?

This is the case to an extent but as noted you need between 70 and 120g carbs for the energy requirements of the listed organs. Also, compared to activities like running or cycling the energy demands of weight training are relatively low, depending on the volume of your training of course. By having a 5 day cycle say, where the fifth day involved increasing the carbohydrate quantity to around 250 - 300g evenly distributed throughout the day you may (no guarantees sorry!) experience better progress overall. Note that there are a large number of individual variables involved here, so a little experimentation could be necessary to find out what really works for you.

[Pseudonym]

No... I haven't experimented with decreasing carbs at night. I haven't experimented with cardio, either, so there are plenty of options left for me to try.

The question I want to answer first, though, is why the same diet and routine as before does not produce the same results now. 8)

[andrew_k]

Unfortunately there are a huge number of variables involved. These include the length of time you were on the diet previously, how recently you were on it and so forth. That is, issues to do with your body adapting metabolically to the diet. Other contributing factors are things like stress levels, emotional state, psychological outlook, age (if it was a couple of years since you last went on the diet) and so on. The factors you noted yourself could be contributing too. Lastly, there is the possibility that the level of carbs and fat in the diet shouldn't have been modified when scaling the diet to match your greater bodymass. Possibly only the protein needed to be increased. The diet may have been aiming to supply little more than the 70-120g carbs needed for the energy requirements of the brain, kidney medulla (etc), a need which wouldn't change with your increase in bodyweight.

[char_k]

v interesting reading, thanks!