creatine

[Beef]

just wondering if anyone can find me any scientific evidence that creatine increases your strength and power and boosts protein synthesis and lean muscle mass

am considering going on the stuff but just thought id try find me some cold hard facts.. but no such luck :?

[HaNs]

Although not all clinical studies agree, some conducted in both animals and people have shown that creatine supplements improve strength and lean muscle mass during high-intensity, short-duration exercises (such as weight lifting). These positive effects were mainly seen in young people (roughly 20 years of age). Also, creatine along with resistance training has been reported to increase bone mineral density in elderly individuals, thereby reducing the risk for osteoporosis. Although it does not appear to improve physical endurance, there is some suggestion that speed for short periods of time may improve with use of creatine.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/creatine-000297.htm

Cant remember/find the other medical study site i was on the other night.

[Ordy]

Scientific test: I used it, i got stronger.

Now that I've finished the lot im a bit weaker than when i was on it. But stronger than when i started. Works very well for me.

Its cheap as and works, even if you dont get the best results yourself its like $30.

[Nik Antunovich]

It's fairly well proven and nearly common knowledge now. Sorry, but I don't have any specific links.

Red meat contains creatine. Have read studies showing vegetarians, though they can be very competitive, are generally better at non-power events, eg high reps of low weight rather than low reps pushing heavy weights. This is as they have lower creatine in muscle tissue than people of conventional diets.

As far a BB is concerned I really don't know much when it comes to loading. Whether loading helps at all or a regular above RDI dose is enough. I'm guessing loading is just a way of making sure there is plenty available for heavy training and so maximum benefit is gained from training. Of course this is pushing your body to the limit, like BB in general, and increases the chance of creatine toxicity so, I'm guessing, that is why it is cylced. A bit like AAS's almost but in a 'natural' form!

Since resuming weight lifting I've chosen not to use it as I'm not competitive and think you can be healthy and look good without it. When I was last on it my muscles were like balloons for the water retention; I didn't think it looked that great even though I looked bigger. But, of course, that's my own opinion!

[Flex]

Seriously, you're asking for a proof that creatine works? dude, that's like asking for a study to prove that weight training increases muscle gain.

Why not try google first:

http://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&source=h ... f4934a191a

[Beef]

It's fairly well proven and nearly common knowledge now. Sorry, but I don't have any specific links.

Red meat contains creatine. Have read studies showing vegetarians, though they can be very competitive, are generally better at non-power events, eg high reps of low weight rather than low reps pushing heavy weights. This is as they have lower creatine in muscle tissue than people of conventional diets.

As far a BB is concerned I really don't know much when it comes to loading. Whether loading helps at all or a regular above RDI dose is enough. I'm guessing loading is just a way of making sure there is plenty available for heavy training and so maximum benefit is gained from training. Of course this is pushing your body to the limit, like BB in general, and increases the chance of creatine toxicity so, I'm guessing, that is why it is cylced. A bit like AAS's almost but in a 'natural' form!

Since resuming weight lifting I've chosen not to use it as I'm not competitive and think you can be healthy and look good without it. When I was last on it my muscles were like balloons for the water retention; I didn't think it looked that great even though I looked bigger. But, of course, that's my own opinion!

thanks thats helpful to know so do you rekon its safer to go on creatine without doing a loading phase at the start? i just dont see how your body can possibly use 20g of creatine per day. i've read that skipping the loading phase is just as effective it just takes a bit longer to notice a difference, but im all for that if its healthier

[PRiME]

The best scientific evidence is to try it. But keep in mind different creatines may not work so well with you. Some may be better suited then others, seems that people get different results and creatine isn't consistently effective across the board because there is so many different grades and types.

I'm going to be trying this stuff next month as I hear is pretty good (i have tried others and had differing results, but the common result is better recovery times)

http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/atp.htm (going to order some in as international freight is not too bad)

[Ordy]

The whole point in the loading phase is to get your body up to the required levels.

Once its there you dont need as much to keep those levels that high. Skip the loading phase and your levels are gonna be so low for the first few weeks you wont really gain anything.

Instructions are there for a reason =p

[Nik Antunovich]

That's about right. Overload your body with it so it is in supply. You're body probably wastes half of it. It's a bit like multivitamins, your body can only absorb so much before it can't use any more so gets rid of what is in excess. Happens most things you put in your gob. Obviously some things are worse than others and some will become toxic.

I just like to keep it as healthy as possible. There is no point IMO to look good at the expense of your body. Why not just use AAS if it's just about results? Obviously it's not.

I'm sure you'll get good results either way. But I'm a bit boring as I think long term instead of overnight miracles. Then again it really depends what you want ot get out of it.

But I'm not going to sit here and tell you it's healthier not to load. Like most things your body has a bloody good tolerance. I think about cost as well I guess. You will know what it's about when you start using it. It is impressive stuff!

IMO I'd start off with something basic like eatme. It is creatine without all the additions. There are heaps of more expensive brands with exactly the same stuff in the box. Some like brands like BSN have propriety blends like their CEM3 but this has never been proven to help (outside of there claims as far as I know). Then again it is creatine so you are bound to get some sort of results. Others contain simple sugars (suppose to aid transport) and these depend on how much sugar you like so watch the packet! You're better off blending your own mix. They never had these blends years ago and it still did the job then.

[Beef]

The whole point in the loading phase is to get your body up to the required levels.

Once its there you dont need as much to keep those levels that high. Skip the loading phase and your levels are gonna be so low for the first few weeks you wont really gain anything.

Instructions are there for a reason =p

"To review, it was previously shown that 20 grams of creatine daily for 5 days raises muscle creatine content by approximately 20%. More recently, Dr. Greenhaff and colleagues have shown that similar increases in muscle creatine content can be obtained with as little as 3 grams of creatine daily if taken for 28 days (instead of 5 days). Therefore, a rapid loading phase may not be absolutely required to “load” our muscles with creatine. You just need to be more patient. Additionally, you would only need to supplement once per day, which is an advantage."

[Ordy]

Also means it takes 28 days instead of 5. Its like driving in a 100km zone at 40kmph... its just plain wasting time.

[justhell]

Also means it takes 28 days instead of 5. Its like driving in a 100km zone at 40kmph... its just plain wasting time.

yeep and if cycling it for 4 or 5 weeks(so ya body dosnt get use to it),28 days to load is far too long.dont be scared of it,its only creatine. :roll:

[Nik Antunovich]

Also means it takes 28 days instead of 5. Its like driving in a 100km zone at 40kmph... its just plain wasting time.

yeep and if cycling it for 4 or 5 weeks(so ya body dosnt get use to it),28 days to load is far too long.dont be scared of it,its only creatine. :roll:

Or is it like driving in a 40kph zone at 100kph? I'm not saying that loading is bad or wrong and sure it is faster. I just don't like waste and like to have things in balance, especially with my health and body. But then again I don't lift weights just to look good but rather to be healthy; this is why I don't use creatine as regularly as suggested for BB any more, it has no real use in my diet.

I guess my body must be 'use' to creatine because it's naturally in at least one of meals everyday! It's just about having the right amount at the right time. If you want faster gains crank it up, if you have other reasons for taking it then consider the options. I've just seen to many guys get into it without thinking about it long term. Do you see yourself lifting weights this time next year? Or do you only want to look good for the impeding summer?

Having not read the above quoted article I would bear in mind a 20% increase does not equate to a 20% rise in your max./size or anything near it! It might be found over a week at the lower dose you'd still get a substantial increase, perhaps even 10-15%. And knowing that biochemistry is by no means linear you'd probably also find that last 5% increase would give you little if any noticeable benefit over the higher dose in a 'loading phase'. But perhaps I should read the article to understand the study and results before commenting...

[Ordy]

Sounds like he wants real gains not just for health/keep at the level hes at. If that was the case i wouldn't bother with creatine at all unless things are slowly plumetting.

If your working out a lot harder then your going to need more arnt you. Same with food etc.

[Nik Antunovich]

Sounds like he wants real gains not just for health/keep at the level hes at. If that was the case i wouldn't bother with creatine at all unless things are slowly plumetting.

If your working out a lot harder then your going to need more arnt you. Same with food etc.

But he would still go above his current level it would just take longer! Not loading will have no effect on the longer term and perhaps the lower dose would give you very close results to the higher dose even in the short term. Any increase in creatine intake is going to be beneficial!

Whatever the case gymsta it is great stuff if you want to work a little harder and for longer. You will get strength and mass increase. Muscle might be a little less dense, for water retention, but it will be bigger.

Either way your body requires more. I think we all know that!

[ThePman]

just wondering if anyone can find me any scientific evidence that creatine increases your strength and power and boosts protein synthesis and lean muscle mass

am considering going on the stuff but just thought id try find me some cold hard facts.. but no such luck :?

If you actually want to find real information on this stuff, go to Pubmed. It's a repository for actual peer-reviewed research studies, which are what you want.

Search for strings like "creatine supplementation" with "exercise performance" or "muscle" and you'll get all the info you could want.

Real info that is, versus the made-up crap you're likely to get on the Internet.

[Beef]

how come it is suggested that you take sugar with creatine? does this help creatine absorb into the body?

[Nik Antunovich]

I understand that the increase in insulin after ingesting simple sugars helps with creatine transport to muscle tissue. Obviously how much sugar is required is really dependant on your metabolism. But I think anything that gives you a little spike is going to help, even 5g dextrose has got to have some effect. Alternatively you could take it with a 'sports drink' like Powerade etc... Can't see Raro being much different. It has been said that ingesting creatine with citrus juices breaks down creatine. I'm not sure what causes this (maybe citric acid) but then again I've heard no reports of people ingesting creatine with apple juice having lesser effects (assuming malic acid reacts similarly, it is a s). So make sure your Raro has no citirc acid used for flavouring perhaps.

Some people use insulin mimickers that would have a similar effect to simple sugars but without the extra carbs in your diet. Some creatine brands have these already blended within. It's really comes down to personal preference.

To a point, what ever you do you will get results. Use it in a conventional way and be impressed!

[Nik Antunovich]

Oh, and drink lots of water!

[Beef]

thanks Nik

[HaNs]

I understand that the increase in insulin after ingesting simple sugars helps with creatine transport to muscle tissue. Obviously how much sugar is required is really dependant on your metabolism. But I think anything that gives you a little spike is going to help, even 5g dextrose has got to have some effect. Alternatively you could take it with a 'sports drink' like Powerade etc... Can't see Raro being much different. It has been said that ingesting creatine with citrus juices breaks down creatine. I'm not sure what causes this (maybe citric acid) but then again I've heard no reports of people ingesting creatine with apple juice having lesser effects (assuming malic acid reacts similarly, it is a s). So make sure your Raro has no citirc acid used for flavouring perhaps.

Some people use insulin mimickers that would have a similar effect to simple sugars but without the extra carbs in your diet. Some creatine brands have these already blended within. It's really comes down to personal preference.

To a point, what ever you do you will get results. Use it in a conventional way and be impressed!

When i looked in to it i think dextrose was the best for insulin spikes.

[Ordy]

If you want to use a carb rather than sugar you can use Vextrago. Its a lot faster digesting too. Obviously dextrago is cheaper, but id rather not be having all that sugar for any reason.

[Nik Antunovich]

HAHAHA! :grin:

I missed my plane flight this morning; I am going to blame it on me answering that last post!

I must be a idiot so don't take anything I say to seriously!

[Flex]

If you want to use a carb rather than sugar you can use Vextrago. Its a lot faster digesting too. Obviously dextrago is cheaper, but id rather not be having all that sugar for any reason.

What do you mean by rather not having all that sugar? - high GI carbs are going to do much the same thing post workout insulin/blood sugar wise, whether it's a fancypants trademarked carb, waxy maize, dextrose or even dirty old sucrose.

And I'm not sure Vextrago was as good as PVL made it out to be - it's been discontinued which seems to say a lot about it.

[ThePman]

I'm not sure why you guys are getting hung up on it anyway. You don't need to take it with anything. It's not like it won't work if you don't take it with carbs or whatever "magic insulin spike" the supplement companies are selling.