Confused from reading all the experts!

[nemesis]

Hi, as the title says I'm working the wrong muscle to failure these days reading about the best way to do this, that and the other.

I just need help with 2 basics that hopefully I can get some clarificaition on from some of you fine people?

I'm sick of looking for the perfect routine and just want to smash some fucking weight! (cheers for that quote nate) To do this I'd like to know

a) what rep range is ideal for hypertrophy?

b)Am I right to just go with a couple of excersizes per muscle group at each workout and just hit em (repeat sets) till total failure? Increasing weight week on week.

I'm planning on going with excersizes like:

- bench press & Flys

- ATG Squats (superset calf raise at top of squat)

- BB curls & Concentration curls

- Overhead db extension & Military Press (with some lat raises too)

- deads & goodmornings (bench rows)

any advice on where I might need to change that?

Cheers for your help as always.

[FAT CLINT]

I would do it a bit differently but if you just want to get in there with a regime like you've got above I'd change:

Ditch flies, do incline db press instead.

Ditch concentration curls and do pull ups.

Ditch overhead db extension and do skull crushers.

[Beef]

rep range for hypertrophy is anywhere between 8 and 15 reps.. i go for 10

[nemesis]

I would do it a bit differently but if you just want to get in there with a regime like you've got above I'd change:

Ditch flies, do incline db press instead.

Ditch concentration curls and do pull ups.

Ditch overhead db extension and do skull crushers.

Cheers for that clint, I do like skull crushers and have been using them in my previous routines. I just seem to be able to get more fatigued using the extensions and less pain in my dodgy broken elbows. But I'll do some research and see if a change in form might help that.

Incline db press is a bit of a no no for me, due to a dodgy left shoulder. I find flat flies with the shoulder blades squeezed tight together doesn't agrivate the shoulder much at at.

Pull ups :oops: I would (will eventually) incorporate them into my routine except I can't do them yet. I used to knock out one arm pull ups in my younger "lighter" days, but years of building fat without muscle have left me a little too weak still to lift myself. :doh:

cheers though for the suggestions, sorry I'm too rooted to use it all :shifty:

[Optimass]

You grow at any rep range mate ... the most important thing is that you reach failure. Everyones going to have a different take on it but essentially you have to find what you feel most comfortable with, as this will probably work best for you.

I personally only reach failure once on each exercise when trying to grow, and use 1 - 2 sets prior as positioning to establish where my faliure set will finish - predicting reps/weight.

I find my body responds really well at 2 - 6 reps on the failure set but will stop on the preloading sets at 8 reps on each exercise at 80-90% weight.

Then to keep the muscle working through platue I do a high rep workout on the specified body part as this tends to shock the muscle.

IMO - I wouldn't removed flyes from your chest work ... Uses a lot of mfibre and is extremely good at strengthening through the entire chest to your delts (synergist muscles stronger = stronger bench).

My recommendation is stick to compound movements when training offseaason for max gains. Chins would be a great addition to your routine for both back and bicep. Lift heavy on compounds and you can't go wrong .... the rest is nutrition.

[ThePman]

My recommendation is stick to compound movements when training offseaason for max gains. Chins would be a great addition to your routine for both back and bicep. Lift heavy on compounds and you can't go wrong .... the rest is nutrition.

Pretty much this. Everything else is detail work and up to personal opinion.

[nemesis]

Thats great guys, I think I've got some real usable information to work with there. :clap:

Simply, use a few compound movements and work to failure with them. GO with a light weight high rep sort of drop set to really smash em that little bit more and help work through the platues.

As soon as I'm able to lift my fat arse doing chins I will start using them too.

Just one thing though, can you explain a bit more what you mean by working to failure once per excersize. Cheers

[Optimass]

Hammer Strength Chest / 4 sets - final set 50kg each side > 8 reps comfortable. (First two sets 20 reps - not working sets)

Flat d/b bench 3 / sets - final set failure @ 12 reps at 45kg

Flat d/b bench 4 / sets - final set failure @ 25kg 10 reps

Incline machine press / 2 sets - final set failure @ 225lbs 12 reps

Dips 2 sets / 8 reps - (Shoulder really starting to fatigue now. I do dips with me knees yuck under my chest - this forces my body to pitch forward and enable me to isolate my lower pec).

d/b pullover 2 sets / 8 reps each set 45kg. (Could have pushed it more but didn't want to agrevate the shoulder)

Standing d/b Curl 3 sets - final set 12 reps @ 22kg

Machine Curls 2 sets - 110lbs 8 reps

finished on 3 sets horizontal leg raises.

This is an entry in my journal > ref "failure set" - this is the last set of that exercise and is the only set I reach maxx failure. I have trained like this for a number of years and as a result believe I have been able to train heavy every week.

e.g may look something like this ...

d/b flat bench

1st set could be 8 reps @ 70% of 1RM

2nd set 8 reps @ 80% of 1RM (from here I should be able to guage my final set weight so I do a positioning set)

3rd set 4 reps @ 90% of 1RM (if target rep range is 2 - 6 reps then I'll stop at 4 if I think I am going to fail on the 6th rep - not failure)

4th set rack up a weight that I think I am going to fail at 4 reps based on the previous set = failure set.

Only reached true failure once in that exercise > with four compunds this would mean only reaching true failure 4 times. IMO dropping the weight down e.g pyramiding doesn't develop as much strength. Increase you relative strength = larger load = more muscle recruited to the move = more growth.

Similar to a PLifter selecting a final lift > working your way up to that best lift.

[nemesis]

ah ha! I think I get it? Out of interst, is there any science behind failing once per excersise as opposed to going to failure on 3rd and again on the 4th? Just wondering your reason behind that method.

Also, (anyone pitch in here please if you have an opinion, all views welcome) choosing to utilise more compounds than isolation excersises, does that mean my whole routine needs to be refocused away from body part splits? It used to be monday was biceps, tuesday was chest ect. But how should I design my routine now if I'm using just compounds to failure?

Is this where the old push / pull split comes in handy. How do you all do it???

[Beef]

ah ha! I think I get it? Out of interst, is there any science behind failing once per excersise as opposed to going to failure on 3rd and again on the 4th? Just wondering your reason behind that method.

Also, (anyone pitch in here please if you have an opinion, all views welcome) choosing to utilise more compounds than isolation excersises, does that mean my whole routine needs to be refocused away from body part splits? It used to be monday was biceps, tuesday was chest ect. But how should I design my routine now if I'm using just compounds to failure?

Is this where the old push / pull split comes in handy. How do you all do it???

dont mean to sound like an arse but sounds to me like ur overthinking it.. just work those god damn muscles man!

[nemesis]

dont mean to sound like an arse but sounds to me like ur overthinking it.. just work those god damn muscles man!

Yeah your right mate! Just get on with it and don't sweat the small stuff huh!

[Gym rat]

dont mean to sound like an arse but sounds to me like ur overthinking it.. just work those god damn muscles man!

Yeah your right mate! Just get on with it and don't sweat the small stuff huh!

Yeah that would be right mate just get stuck into and dont sweet pay attention to the small stuff.

[Beef]

Yeah that would be right mate just get stuck into and dont sweet pay attention to the small stuff.

lol what? i dont understand that at all? :?

[musclenz]

Nemesis, You talk about hypertrophy & what opti has given you is a perfect definition of how to perform a standard set for max gain in strength & hypertrophy. However, you also talk about your "fat ass" & your inability to perform bicep pulls /chins etc. Just wondering whether you might be better off to run the rep numbers up into the12-15 range, reduce time between sets to 1 min max & punch out a few more exercises per body part. Combined with a good clean diet & some additional cardio, you may well find that this type of training will still drive Strength but will also increase endurance & cardio vascular capacity, increasing metabolism & getting the body primed for heavy low rep work down the track. I guess in the end its about mixing everything up & finding out which works best for your body type & goals.

[nemesis]

Nemesis, You talk about hypertrophy & what opti has given you is a perfect definition of how to perform a standard set for max gain in strength & hypertrophy. However, you also talk about your "fat ass" & your inability to perform bicep pulls /chins etc. Just wondering whether you might be better off to run the rep numbers up into the12-15 range, reduce time between sets to 1 min max & punch out a few more exercises per body part. Combined with a good clean diet & some additional cardio, you may well find that this type of training will still drive Strength but will also increase endurance & cardio vascular capacity, increasing metabolism & getting the body primed for heavy low rep work down the track. I guess in the end its about mixing everything up & finding out which works best for your body type & goals.

Yeah thanks Musclenz. Up until just last week I was doing pretty much that, 12-15 reps and trying to keep rest below 60 seconds. I started adding excersise on excersise and then changing and things have got out of hand.

I think I want to go with shorter (currently take 90 mins) simple workouts each day (5 day split) 30-40 min workouts. with just a couple iso excersises done to death so I can focus on body parts. I know how to concentrate on certain muscle groups quite well.

This is the disadvantage of working out from home and not being able to pick the mind of others. I might be joing up somewhere when I start making money again.

either way, the only thing I really need to do is keep lifting and eat well! I'll do more cardio now the suns out too.

[Gym rat]

The rep range varys for me I do 15 to 30 reps and for the heavyer I do eight to ten but if I am using heaver weights I use 4 reps