Anabolic diet not working for me.

[Pseudonym]

Well, I've been on the Anabolic Diet for nearly 12 weeks now. Although I was impressed with the changes I saw in the first few weeks, I haven't made any real progress since.

I started out calculating my caloric maintenance using the Cunningham Equation. It put me at a whopping 4,200 calories, although I’d been deliberately erring on the generous side. As a lean bulk, that worked really well (probably because the AD had doubled my already-large protein intake). Noticeable size gains, with little to no fat gain. Also noticed a “hardening” effect, presumably due to the water retention disappearing with the carbs.

It felt like I was off to a good start. Sure I wasn’t getting leaner, but with that many calories, it was hardly a surprise. So I decided to drop the calories a bit, and see what happened.

Nothing happened.

I dropped the calories a bit more. Still nothing. Week after week, I’ve stayed between 11.4% and 11.2% body fat.

So I started doing cardio. Daily. (Shows how desperate things are!) I started taking EAS ThermoDynamX (admittedly not the most potent fat-burner out there, but still.) After a full week of this, I got tested again yesterday – 90kg at 11.0%.

I’m not impressed. This is far too much effort for a piddling 0.2% drop.

Here’s what I ate yesterday:

7.30am

4 eggs + 2 whites

small handful of blueberries

(and a tablespoon of fake sugar, vanilla essence and water to make it into a custard)

When I remember, I add a tablespoon of ground flax seed. In fact, when I remember, I'll have another one at night too, to make up for the days when I don't remember.

10.30am

Two scoops of protein powder in water

50g edam cheese

12.30pm-1.30pm workout

1.30pm

Postworkout shake – one scoop of Cytosport Complete Whey Protein, one of Eatme unflavoured

2.30pm

2x chicken thighs cutlets

broccoli

sundried tomato

60g feta cheese

olive oil to drizzle

5pm

Two scoops of protein powder in water

50g edam cheese

7.30pm

~200g steak

1 large celery stalk

bit of peanut butter

I didn’t last night but I’ll often have another similar meal at 9.30pm

I haven’t had a chance to calculate the macros on this yet. I’ll do that tonight.

So… those of you who’ve tried the Anabolic Diet - any thoughts?

[rose]

Without actually adding it up, at first glance I'm guesstimating that looks really thin on calories IMO, even with another meal at 9:30pm. It also looks too low in fat.

Is your meat cooked weight or raw weight then cooked? Can you also post what you're re-feeding on at the weekends?

[Mr_Krabs]

Hmmm yeah its definately not the "miracle" we all thought it was a couple of months ago. In saying that though I am still quite impressed with what it can do. Im at the end of week 10 and have lost just over 3kg and 2.5% BF.

Now I know by traditional cutting standards this is very slow progress but when you take into account that I did this on what I thought were maintainance calories (3700 cal, Im 75kg, 12% BF) and retained my pre-diet strength (1RM etc) without any extra cardio so Im reasonably happy with it.

I am getting a little bored of it though to be honest, so I think Ill finish another week maybe two (to make it an even 12 weeks) then phase the carbs back in and see what happens.

[rose]

Another thought is maybe during the week you're going over 25g carbs without realising it? Also, I know it's only a handful of blueberries, but the anabolic diet says to save fruit for carb days. I'd also ditch the sugar substitute.

I'd eat more cheese, more fat in general, and definitely more meat. You eat less food than me, and I'm presuming you're bigger.

If you do decide to eat more cheese, don't make it feta. It's a higher carb cheese than others such as edam.

Revisit what the diet suggests, as it looks like you've deviated from it a little and cut out too much fat...

Breakfast. Whole eggs, bacon, spinach.

Snack. Italian or french cheese.

Lunch. Ground round, broccoli, olive oil.

Snack. Italian or Spanish ham.

Post Workout. Whey, olive oil.

Dinner. Mackerel, salad, olive oil, cheese cubes.

Pre Bed. French cheese, ground flax seeds, fish oil

[Beef]

Another thought is maybe during the week you're going over 25g carbs without realising it? Also, I know it's only a handful of blueberries, but the anabolic diet says to save fruit for carb days. I'd also ditch the sugar substitute.

I'd eat more cheese, more fat in general, and definitely more meat. You eat less food than me, and I'm presuming you're bigger.

If you do decide to eat more cheese, don't make it feta. It's a higher carb cheese than others such as edam.

do you know if feta has much saturated fat?

[rose]

Another thought is maybe during the week you're going over 25g carbs without realising it? Also, I know it's only a handful of blueberries, but the anabolic diet says to save fruit for carb days. I'd also ditch the sugar substitute.

I'd eat more cheese, more fat in general, and definitely more meat. You eat less food than me, and I'm presuming you're bigger.

If you do decide to eat more cheese, don't make it feta. It's a higher carb cheese than others such as edam.

do you know if feta has much saturated fat?

The anabolic diet is a fat burning diet and therefore all about eating fat, saturated or otherwise, and cutting carbs.

[steak]

its looks too skinny on calories... your body could be doing a survival trick on ya and holding onto every once of fat it can just in case you are in some kind of body emergency...the body doesnt know what you know eh so its doesnt know the science of what you are doing... it only gets the message by what you put in it and then reacts to that...agree with Rose on the fats...could you up it woith some LSA oil, LSA mix, flaxseed oil, PB etc etc

follows with interest

[rose]

Re nuts and nut butter, LSA etc. Yep nuts are a good source of fat, but they contain carbs. The anabolic diet suggests a max of 100g nuts per day.

Anabolic diet food list:

"Nuts. Rich in protein & fat. However they contain carbs. You can’t get more than 25g carbs on your no-carbs days. So eat max 100g nuts on those days.

Fats. Balance your fat intake for best results.

43. Fish Oil. Liquid form or caps, rich in omega-3 fatty acids.

44. Cod Liver Oil. Omega-3, vitamin A, vitamin D.

45. Ground Flax Seeds. Omega-3. Rich in fiber. 2tbsp/day to help digestion.

46. Real Butter. No margarines. Cook your meat in real butter, tastes better.

47. Argan Oil. Rich in omega-6. Tastes great with salads.

48. Olive Oil. Omega-9. Use extra virgin olive oil."

[Mr_Krabs]

Just realised my post didnt help you at all :?

So you are over trying to bulk and are now trying to strip a bit of fat?

Just looking at it with the eye-ball-calculator it seems (as rose pointed out) that youre fat is lacking, specifically your protein to fat ratio

So my suggestion is to up the fat and drop the protein slightly to account for the extra calories :nod:

[steak]

Re nuts and nut butter, LSA etc. Yep nuts are a good source of fat, but they contain carbs. The anabolic diet suggests a max of 100g nuts per day.

Anabolic diet food list:

"Nuts. Rich in protein & fat. However they contain carbs. You can’t get more than 25g carbs on your no-carbs days. So eat max 100g nuts on those days.

Fats. Balance your fat intake for best results.

43. Fish Oil. Liquid form or caps, rich in omega-3 fatty acids.

44. Cod Liver Oil. Omega-3, vitamin A, vitamin D.

45. Ground Flax Seeds. Omega-3. Rich in fiber. 2tbsp/day to help digestion.

46. Real Butter. No margarines. Cook your meat in real butter, tastes better.

47. Argan Oil. Rich in omega-6. Tastes great with salads.

48. Olive Oil. Omega-9. Use extra virgin olive oil."

I did have a fleeting thought about that...truely but didnt realise it was that high.

still watching with interest

[rose]

So my suggestion is to up the fat and drop the protein slightly to account for the extra calories

:nod: "No Carbs Days. 40% protein, 60% fat, 25g carbs max."

However, Pseudonym's calories still look too low, IMO.

[Pseudonym]

Yeah, sorry. Perhaps I wasn't very clear on a few things, and a few more details I left out:

I'm currently 90kg, 11%BF. I have a tablespoon of ground flax seed on intermittent days. I'll change my post above to include that.

I started out on 4200-ish calories. Lots of fats. More than twice the cheese. Protein shakes made with cream, etc.

When I realised I wasn't getting leaner, I began to pull things back. Particularly foods like cream, which were all fat and no protein. The diet you see above is the result of that. And yes, it's got to the point where I can't strip much more out.

As for the blueberries, there's bugger-all carbs in them. I'd guess probably about 6-8g in a handful? In fact, they're in the official Anabolic Diet foods you can eat list.

Fruits. Contain carbs: fructose. Since you can’t get more than 25g carbs on your no-carbs days, almost none works on the Anabolic Diet. Eat fruits on your carb days. Except these 2 which are ok if you stay within the 25g carbs/day limit.

* Berries. Strawberries, blueberries, black berries, raspberries,…

* Watermelon.

I guess my question is this: Obviously there's something wrong, and I agree it doesn't seem like a heap of fat now, but I tried more fat at the start (sticking religiously to the 40:60 ratio), and that didn't work either. So what can I do differently?

[Mr_Krabs]

Maybe the problem isnt with the weekday menu, are you doing 48, 36 or 24 hr carb ups and are they all clean carbs, are you keeping the fat and protein lowish durring the carbups?

[rose]

That really isn't a lot of calories for someone your size. Maybe you're being too strict now?

but I tried more fat at the start (sticking religiously to the 40:60 ratio), and that didn't work either. So what can I do differently?

How far into the diet did you decide eating more fat wasn't working and so changed it? If you look at the 10 mistakes, top of the list is not eating enough fat. It also suggests giving your body time to adjust, and switching to weight gain/loss after 4 weeks of being on the diet... "Give your body 4 weeks to adapt to the Anabolic Diet before you focus on gaining/losing weight. Get your daily caloric needs. Switch to weight gain/loss after 4 weeks."

More fat and more red meat. Those are two immediate improvements. I wouldn't bother counting whey as a meal with the cheese. Just eat more cheese. And more meat :pfft:

"Not Eating Red Meat. Chicken & tuna don’t work on the Anabolic Diet. You need animal fat for its saturated fat. This helps muscle gains, fat loss & keeps your energy high. Eat red meat: hamburgers, steaks, ribs, bacon, "

[Beef]

do you mind explaining the anabolic diet? is it for weight loss and muscle gain? it just seems paradoxical if you're trying to lose fat by eating heaps of fat :? ?

[rose]

do you mind explaining the anabolic diet? is it for weight loss and muscle gain? it just seems paradoxical if you're trying to lose fat by eating heaps of fat :? ?

Eat fat to burn fat: Anabolic Diet 101: The Definite Anabolic Diet Guide

[Pseudonym]

How far into the diet did you decide eating more fat wasn't working and so changed it?

It would have been at least 4 weeks, and probably a lot longer because I was enjoying the lean bulk, even though it wasn't planned! I would say probably closer to 6-8 weeks.

Maybe the problem isnt with the weekday menu, are you doing 48, 36 or 24 hr carb ups and are they all clean carbs, are you keeping the fat and protein lowish durring the carbups?

I've been pretty good with my carb-ups. The worst I've had has been a cream donut, and jam on toast. Carb-ups never lasted more than 2 days, and a lot of the time, I just did 24 hours (even skipped it once to make sure I was still in fat-burning mode).

About the only thing I can think of is to start dropping the protein. I've been reluctant to do that because, well, it's protein! But what else is left? Perhaps my body's just super-efficient at converting protein into carbs.

[rose]

Maybe look at the types of fat you're eating. And try more red meat. And more cheese :grin:

[HumanPerformance]

About the only thing I can think of is to start dropping the protein. I've been reluctant to do that because, well, it's protein! But what else is left? Perhaps my body's just super-efficient at converting protein into carbs.

You may have hit the nail on the head there pseudonym.

From what you have posted and our conversation earlier today I just cant get my head around it. Gluconeogenesis can happen on extremely low carb and ketogenic diets. It is often initiated by a biotin deficiency whlie on a low carb diet. Are you taking a multi vitamin and mineral supplement? Do you know if you would deficient in biotin? I know raw egg consumption can cause such a deficeincy but I think you said toady you make you cook your custard into a sweet type of omlet.

[Pseudonym]

Okay, having played around with my spreadsheet, here are the numbers for the above diet...

Protein 347g (1388 cal)

Fat 148g (1332 cal)

Carbs 20g (80 cal)

Total calories = 2800cal

So it's evolved into a ratio that's currently closer to 50:50 than 40:60.

Incidentally, I just checked the pack of my feta cheese. It lists carbs as 1g per 100g - miles less than the online database I'd looked up this afternoon. So I think that's safe. You had me worried, Rose - I like my feta!

Are you taking a multi vitamin and mineral supplement? Do you know if you would deficient in biotin?

No to the multi. Don't know to the biotin. I do cook all my eggs, but according to Wikipedia:

Biotin deficiency is rare, as intestinal bacteria generally produce an excess of the body's recommended daily requirement.

I did do a course of antibiotics in the middle of this diet. Perhaps that killed off my biotin-producing bacteria? :shrug:

So what do we reckon? Put the fat back up, and drop the protein down? Just for shits and giggles, should I drop the protein drastically, just to see if anything happens?

[HumanPerformance]

Yeah doing the course of antibiotics could definately have killed off said bacteria, as they are indiscriminate in the bacteria they kill.

Yes I think it would be worth increasing the fat content so its closer to 60-40 (as Rose said) as it is closer to the recommended potocol. Maybe take some pro biotics for a while and some biotin (B7) just to be sure.

If all else fails Ill give you that eating plan we talked about.

[rose]

I'd up the fatz to 60%. And personally I'd also replace the whey inbetween meals with a food source of protein, red meat, more cheese, whatever, but something more in line with the anabolic diet plan. I don't believe the results are as good using whey, so I'd save it for post workout.

I'd also try cycling calories, e.g. one day eating at maintenance calories, 3 days below, no matter what part of the week it is. Doesn't have to be a pattern to it, some days below maintenance, others at maintenance. Bascially eat at maintenance a couple of times a week rather than the whole week below maintenance, if you're not already.

However I wouldn't eat below maintenance longer than 3 days. MPO is that's when your body starts to think calories are getting scarce and you end up burning stuff all (male or female). I wouldn't eat more than 300 calories below maintenance either (for the same reason)

[Pseudonym]

Ok, thanks guys. I'll have a play with the numbers, and see what I can come up with. Maybe something around 3500 cal, 65% fat, 35% protein?

[Optimass]

i'd up the fats and protein but drop the 2 day carb to a one day for 2 weeks > suspect your body is more efficient at processing glucose. I think rose is in the money here. And a multi vitamin lik HP has suggested wouldn't hurt - especially when doing low/no carb diets.

Fructose is a higher concentrate suger - as a result it will cause a higher fluctuation (spike) in blood sugar > on the anabolic diet this will hinder the optimised state for hormone release. This is better used in the carb days as you want to spike to amplify hormone production.

heres a non related med/report - study is not very wide but findings are relavent.

A general assumption is that fructose means fruit and most of us don’t worry about getting too much sugar from our fruits because we just don’t eat them very often. We may be getting an overload of fructose without even being aware of it, though. And what’s even worse is that a researcher from the UT Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas has just discovered that fructose in the diet converts to fat faster than any other sweeteners available today.

http://medheadlines.com/2008/07/28/fruc ... er-sugars/

REM: Saturated fats are not bad for you :grin: especially if you are in keto or low carb diet > energy is energy / calories are calories ....

http://preventionisbest.com/site/saturatedfat.html

Pseu: have you tried MCT oil? May give you a different effect than the other oils in your plan. (Hydorlised Coconut oil) - it's know as the true fat burning oil.

MCT oil is interesting because, when it is metabolised in the body, it behaves rather more like a carbohydrate than a fat.

there are some real benefits to it in this diet of nutritional routine ... but it's often overlooked as it tastes like SH%T. --- must admit though > it's only an energy source ... not ness a good fat as a replacement but it may give you the change in state your needing to break through this sticking point.

Ok, thanks guys. I'll have a play with the numbers, and see what I can come up with. Maybe something around 3500 cal, 65% fat, 35% protein?

personal preference ....

offseason semi strict 50% Protein, 25% fat, 25% carbs

in season strict 60% protein, 30% fat, 10% carbs

Food for thought

[Pseudonym]

Just before Christmas I had a blood test done. Figured I'd get it in before holiday feasting ruined my strict Anabolic Diet. By then I had been on it for 4 months.

Most of the test results were perfect. But there were a few that made me go "Hmmm."

Fasting glucose: 5.3 mmol/L (normal range 3.5 - 5.4)

Not out of normal range, but I'm surprised glucose was at the high end of normal on the AD, particularly since the test was taken before breakfast.

Urea: 9.1 mmol/L (3.2 - 7.7)

Maybe the result of eating such a meat-heavy diet?

Creatinine: 110 umol/L (60 - 105)

I was on creatine, so that probably explains the slightly higher creatinine levels.

eGFR: 70 mL/min/1.73m2 ( > 80 )

No idea what this is, but it's low.

Cholesterol: 4.7 mmol/L (

Triglyceride: 0.8 mm/L (

HDL Cholesterol: 1.13 mmol/L ( > 1.00 )

LDL Cholesterol: 3.2 mmol/L (

Chol/HDL Ratio: 4.2 (

Obviously cholesterol was of particular interest given the high fat levels of the Anabolic Diet. While the results aren't "Get me an ambulance" material, they are a little concerning. In previous tests (admittedly the the last being two years ago) my cholesterol has been perfect. LDL used to be constantly down in the 1.x range, so there's been a fair jump, and I think the AD seems the likely culprit.

It's a bugger. I was planning on continuing with the AD this year, but now I'm not so sure. :?