IFBB Pro show coming to NZ 2010

[Outlaw53]

Hmmm, still none the wiser on what the "look" is and the direction IFBB are going with the Pro Women, both Bikini and Figure, however, thanks Optimass for the Video. And today I see a second place getter at the NZFBB Nationals gets her Pro Card, Sesa Tomuli. Not having a go at her or her Physique, but really, you get a Pro Card after getting second ??

You'll have as many friends as me (none) if you keep that kind of talk up.

I think I'm gonna enjoy reading aln's posts.

Keep up the good work mate.

[Dr Squat]

Hmmm, still none the wiser on what the "look" is and the direction IFBB are going with the Pro Women, both Bikini and Figure, however, thanks Optimass for the Video. And today I see a second place getter at the NZFBB Nationals gets her Pro Card, Sesa Tomuli. Not having a go at her or her Physique, but really, you get a Pro Card after getting second ??

You'll have as many friends as me (none) if you keep that kind of talk up.

I think I'm gonna enjoy reading aln's posts.

Keep up the good work mate.

LMAO. I'm with you Outlaw. :nod:

There is a history of second place "winners" getting a pro card in NZ??? I think the route for the Australians is a fair bit tougher?

[Outlaw53]

LMAO. I'm with you Outlaw. :nod:

There is a history of second place "winners" getting a pro card in NZ??? I think the route for the Australians is a fair bit tougher?

I wouldn't say that it's tougher.

The 'Pro Card' issue is a bit of a mystery over here in Australia.

We don't actually have a Pro Qualifier comp any more, in fact none of us are quite sure how you get a Pro card to be honest.

It would appear that you need to contact the 'powers to be' and ask for one.

After that you need to win a few important comps and then you will get one.......(I think)?

Hey, it might sound a bit arse-about, but at least you have to win a comp, second place doesn't cut it over here.

[musclenz]

LMAO. I'm with you Outlaw. :nod:

There is a history of second place "winners" getting a pro card in NZ??? I think the route for the Australians is a fair bit tougher?

I wouldn't say that it's tougher.

The 'Pro Card' issue is a bit of a mystery over here in Australia.

We don't actually have a Pro Qualifier comp any more, in fact none of us are quite sure how you get a Pro card to be honest.

It would appear that you need to contact the 'powers to be' and ask for one.

After that you need to win a few important comps and then you will get one.......(I think)?

Hey, it might sound a bit arse-about, but at least you have to win a comp, second place doesn't cut it over here.

Pretty much what happens here as well but it seems that winning National or International Titles is not mandatory. If a National Competition was deemed a Pro Qualifier then individuals would have something to strive for & there would be more uniformity in the selection process or there could be a requirement to perform well (win) in a recognised IFBB International Competition at amateur level. This has been discussed ad nauseum on many threads but the process of a randomised selection still goes on.

[samoan_muscle]

LMAO. I'm with you Outlaw. :nod:

There is a history of second place "winners" getting a pro card in NZ??? I think the route for the Australians is a fair bit tougher?

I wouldn't say that it's tougher.

The 'Pro Card' issue is a bit of a mystery over here in Australia.

We don't actually have a Pro Qualifier comp any more, in fact none of us are quite sure how you get a Pro card to be honest.

It would appear that you need to contact the 'powers to be' and ask for one.

After that you need to win a few important comps and then you will get one.......(I think)?

Hey, it might sound a bit arse-about, but at least you have to win a comp, second place doesn't cut it over here.

Pretty much what happens here as well but it seems that winning National or International Titles is not mandatory. If a National Competition was deemed a Pro Qualifier then individuals would have something to strive for & there would be more uniformity in the selection process or there could be a requirement to perform well (win) in a recognised IFBB International Competition at amateur level. This has been discussed ad nauseum on many threads but the process of a randomised selection still goes on.

If we were to assume that the Judging of such a competition was impartial it would mean that certain individuals that didn’t win and want their pro-card and have friend / friends in the right places, simply wouldn’t get them - provided that such a competition was the only way a pro-card could be awarded. For this reason alone, under the current “administration”, this competition would probably never eventuate.

Put simply, pro cards couldnt be handed out willy nilly to whoever the f*ck...

[Outlaw53]

The problem we found in Australia was that competitors who won their Pro Card didn't bother using it.

It's like they wanted to win it, but when they did they decided to just keep in their wallet and flash it around rather than step on stage with the Pros.

It was therefore decided that if you wanted to become a Pro then you would need to make a request, then win the appropriate title.

I think it is strongly encouraged that any new Aussie Pros are to compete in the Aussie Pro show as well.

To be honest, I think this is probably the way to go.

What's the point of being a Pro if you are not going to compete as a Pro?

No point having a Ferrari and leaving it in the garage.

[ngai2]

What a lot of crap! Im gonna go to Nationals come in soft and look like Ive eaten too many marshmallows get 2nd and become a pro! Nevermind about busting my ass to win! IFBB Pro show my big fat arse!!!

[jimjim83]

She certainly didnt look crap, but i think if they are going to give out pro cards then they should at least be given when the you place 1st other wise it raises this doubt over the quality of the athlete.

If you cant place 1st at an amatuer show then how will you place amongst pros?

Hopfully this doesnt reflect badly on NZ althletes and make them the laughing stock on the pro scene.

[Pseudonym]

Someone made a suggestion to me the other day which I thought sounded good - so I'll repeat it here and take the credit for it!

Make it a requirement for getting a pro card that you have to win the National Overall twice. Not necessarily two years running, but at least twice. Here's why:

- It's simple. It makes it very clear - you're either eligible for your pro card, or you're not.

- It obviously sets the bar at a high standard, but its also a standard that moves to match the calibre of the top athletes at the time.

- It encourages more competition at the top national level.

- Requiring you to be a twice-winner reduces the risk of a pro card going to someone who isn't ready just because one year happens to have a smaller pool of athletes.

- It helps ensure competitors have "done their time" before they turn pro.

Sounded damn sensible to me.

[MMAstar]

Here we go again, we bitched & moaned about Miss Raechelle Chase getting her Procard. Hang on a minute, people actually got a bit excited & throw there toys around (Haters)..lol.

I appreciate great figures/physiques. Sesa Tomuli has one of the most symmetrical & stunning structures I've seen in a long time. This girl could go either way. Her condition at Aucklands A bit tooo hard. Nationals was nice & soft. A lil more weight to drop. Amazing build. Keep on going!!!

Congratulations Sesa on your Pro card Status look forward to checking on your progress. Dont listen to these haters!!!!. Nothing else better to talk about! :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Lil G]

What a lot of crap! Im gonna go to Nationals come in soft and look like Ive eaten too many marshmallows get 2nd and become a pro! Nevermind about busting my ass to win! IFBB Pro show my big fat arse!!!

lol then why don't you try haha.

Your fulllll of crap, how about you show us your pics, and post your name to. If your going to throw words arond like that then don't hide. Im sick of looooosssssseeerrrrrrssssssssssss like you. Grow up mr or mrs tall poppy syndrome. If your going to reply make sure to add your pics and name. :nod: :nod: If not, don't bother.

Otherwise i hope you have a nice day.

[Outlaw53]

Here we go again, we bitched & moaned about Miss Raechelle Chase getting her Procard. Hang on a minute, people actually got a bit excited & throw there toys around (Haters)..lol.

I appreciate great figures/physiques. Sesa Tomuli has one of the most symmetrical & stunning structures I've seen in a long time. This girl could go either way. Her condition at Aucklands A bit tooo hard. Nationals was nice & soft. A lil more weight to drop. Amazing build. Keep on going!!!

Congratulations Sesa on your Pro card Status look forward to checking on your progress. Dont listen to these haters!!!!. Nothing else better to talk about! :clap: :clap: :clap:

You are missing the whole point mate.

No one hates Raechelle or Sesa, we just hate the dodgy way they received their Pro cards.

There has to be some kind of qualification or criteria to get a Pro card, just being best mates with Moe is hardly gonna cut the mustard.

Both women will now be recognised as having been given their Pro cards rather than winning them.

Will all other athletes be given the same privileges as Raechelle and Sesa?

What if Moe doesn't like them yet they are good enough to be Pro's, will they still get given a Pro card?

The way it has been handled is as dodgy as hell, there is no hating on the girls, just on the way it was done.

[Outlaw53]

Someone made a suggestion to me the other day which I thought sounded good - so I'll repeat it here and take the credit for it!

Make it a requirement for getting a pro card that you have to win the National Overall twice. Not necessarily two years running, but at least twice. Here's why:

- It's simple. It makes it very clear - you're either eligible for your pro card, or you're not.

- It obviously sets the bar at a high standard, but its also a standard that moves to match the calibre of the top athletes at the time.

- It encourages more competition at the top national level.

- Requiring you to be a twice-winner reduces the risk of a pro card going to someone who isn't ready just because one year happens to have a smaller pool of athletes.

- It helps ensure competitors have "done their time" before they turn pro.

Sounded damn sensible to me.

I don't agree.

It seems pointless making them do everything twice.

So what if some year's are easier than others, thats just the luck of the draw.

You can never predict it, it's not like guys are waiting for an easy year so as they can qualify.

If they have the balls to step on stage then they deserve to be rewarded regardless of who showed up.

The Overall winner of the National title should be offered a Pro card each year, otherwise allow competitors to nominate for a Pro card.

They can contact the promoter before the show and express interest in winning a Pro card.

Providing they win their weight class and nominate their intentions to turn Pro beforehand then they too should be offered a card.

Nominating is the way to go for small countries like NZ & Australia.

Obviously in the US there is no need, but it is different over here.

Nominating means that the competitor has planned to become a Pro and does not have to make up their mind on the spot when they are depleted, dehydrated or high on adrenaline and are probably not thinking too straight at the time.

[musclenz]

Here we go again, we bitched & moaned about Miss Raechelle Chase getting her Procard. Hang on a minute, people actually got a bit excited & throw there toys around (Haters)..lol.

I appreciate great figures/physiques. Sesa Tomuli has one of the most symmetrical & stunning structures I've seen in a long time. This girl could go either way. Her condition at Aucklands A bit tooo hard. Nationals was nice & soft. A lil more weight to drop. Amazing build. Keep on going!!!

Congratulations Sesa on your Pro card Status look forward to checking on your progress. Dont listen to these haters!!!!. Nothing else better to talk about! :clap: :clap: :clap:

You are missing the whole point mate.

No one hates Raechelle or Sesa, we just hate the dodgy way they received their Pro cards.

There has to be some kind of qualification or criteria to get a Pro card, just being best mates with Moe is hardly gonna cut the mustard.

Both women will now be recognised as having been given their Pro cards rather than winning them.

Will all other athletes be given the same privileges as Raechelle and Sesa?

What if Moe doesn't like them yet they are good enough to be Pro's, will they still get given a Pro card?

The way it has been handled is as dodgy as hell, there is no hating on the girls, just on the way it was done.

Agree Outlaw that these posts are not meant to be personal attacks on peoples ability to be awarded a Pro Card but how it is awarded in NZ & in Australia by all counts. I'm wondering why MasterTel is so conspicuious by his absence on this forum. Maybe he's been told to shut it!

[AllenNZ]

(Quote) I'm wondering why MasterTel is so conspicuious by his absence on this forum. Maybe he's been told to shut it!

Yes were are the NZFBB men that comment on this forum. I know that its been said that they will have the dates up by the end of this month. If Moe this told them to say away from this forum than its not the way bodybuilding should be run here in NZ. By having MasterTel and the Pro IFBB men and woman on this forum only increases interest in bodybuilding. So come all you NZFBB members get in behind the Pro bodybuilders we do have and if you do know them tell them we want them back.

[MasterTel]

I'm wondering why MasterTel is so conspicuious by his absence on this forum. Maybe he's been told to shut it!

LOL - no, musclenz, I have been viewing this topic but decided if I had anything to add it would only be to berate mhkr for their ignorant and pathetic comments (thankfully Lil G got in before me).

Anyway, the main general point I would like to make is that with the significant differences between the way Figure is judged here (i.e. Amateur NZFBB Figure) is quite different to how the Pro's are judged - meaning that where someone places here (e.g. Raechelle 2nd in BodyFitness and Sesa 2nd in Figure) has no bearing on how they might place in a Pro Figure event. Rachelle (10th place out of approx 26 in here 1st Pro event) is a great example of this. Also, consider that another NZ IFBB Figure Pro (Jacqui Jarrett) won her Pro card after winning the NZFBB NZ National Overall PHYSIQUE title ... not Figure! I think a more significant issue is to look at how the Figure class is judged here ... and I know this is a priority for our Judges Chairman to address in the next few months.

Having met up with Moe briefly yesterday, I can now add some more info regarding the Pro show next March (20th). This event will be an amateur event (for both male and female competitors) with the Overall Figure and Overall Bikini competitors being awarded their Pro cards immediately and they will be eligible to contest the Pro event later in the day. That's all the info I have at the moment, but Moe is back from the States in just over 2 weeks time so I expect there will be more details to follow then.

[musclenz]

I'm wondering why MasterTel is so conspicuious by his absence on this forum. Maybe he's been told to shut it!

LOL - no, musclenz, I have been viewing this topic but decided if I had anything to add it would only be to berate mhkr for their ignorant and pathetic comments (thankfully Lil G got in before me).

Anyway, the main general point I would like to make is that with the significant differences between the way Figure is judged here (i.e. Amateur NZFBB Figure) is quite different to how the Pro's are judged - meaning that where someone places here (e.g. Raechelle 2nd in BodyFitness and Sesa 2nd in Figure) has no bearing on how they might place in a Pro Figure event. Rachelle (10th place out of approx 26 in here 1st Pro event) is a great example of this. Also, consider that another NZ IFBB Figure Pro (Jacqui Jarrett) won her Pro card after winning the NZFBB NZ National Overall PHYSIQUE title ... not Figure! I think a more significant issue is to look at how the Figure class is judged here ... and I know this is a priority for our Judges Chairman to address in the next few months.

Having met up with Moe briefly yesterday, I can now add some more info regarding the Pro show next March (20th). This event will be an amateur event (for both male and female competitors) with the Overall Figure and Overall Bikini competitors being awarded their Pro cards immediately and they will be eligible to contest the Pro event later in the day. That's all the info I have at the moment, but Moe is back from the States in just over 2 weeks time so I expect there will be more details to follow then.

MasterTel, so nice to see you back on the board You have made your point before about the difference of judging criteria between Amateur & Professional. I'm certainly no expert on judging standards, but it still seems to me to defy all logic that somebody competing at a National Level may face different criteria at a Pro Level or Intl Level. I'm glad your judging panel is looking into it.

As others have alluded to on this thread, you will never convince me that the Bikini Class is anything more than a glorified Beauty Show, & IMO has no place in BBing Competitions. However even in NABBA/WFF there is now a "Miss Glamour" catagory in WFF, so I guess I will just have to get used to it & enjoy, which I might say is not that difficult anyway. :grin:

[aln]

Pleased to see some responce from the NZFBB admin. Defies belief what the reason given by Mastertel. Seems you get a card if the you "look" like you may do well in the Pro Division. Best wishes and luck to those who have been accepted to the Pro division recently, but feel sorry for those who missed out, yet placed higher! Best NZFBB get your judging game sorted A.S.A.P.

[MasterTel]

Pleased to see some responce from the NZFBB admin. Defies belief what the reason given by Mastertel. Seems you get a card if the you "look" like you may do well in the Pro Division.

The current NZFBB Figure class was introduced some years ago (well before I got involved in bodybuilding, so I'm only relating what I have heard) out of a very strong demand for a category that allowed competitors with less muscularity in Physique to do a new type of class but still do various compulsory poses (unlike Pro Figure which pretty much is based on quarter turns). This NZFBB class has become increasingly popular in recent years - due mainly to the gradual decline of popularity with the Physique classes. At a guess I would say 65% of NZFBB female competitors do Figure classes, about 25-30% in Physique and 5-10% in Body Fitness.

While we could align our rules and poses to match that in Pro Figure, it would only suit a very small number of competitors who have aspirations to turn Pro - leaving the majority who like the current rules and posing to maybe leave the sport altogether. A tricky situation to deal with!

Best wishes and luck to those who have been accepted to the Pro division recently, but feel sorry for those who missed out, yet placed higher! Best NZFBB get your judging game sorted A.S.A.P.

You need to realise, aln, that all our current Pro Figure competitors have REQUESTED their cards - they haven't been GIVEN them automatically. The significance of this is those who won their classes would only have missed out if they too had 1) wanted a Pro card and 2) requested it but been turned down.

[jimjim83]

Best wishes and luck to those who have been accepted to the Pro division recently, but feel sorry for those who missed out, yet placed higher! Best NZFBB get your judging game sorted A.S.A.P.

You need to realise, aln, that all our current Pro Figure competitors have REQUESTED their cards - they haven't been GIVEN them automatically. The significance of this is those who won their classes would only have missed out if they too had 1) wanted a Pro card and 2) requested it but been turned down.

[MasterTel]

So if a card is REQUESTED but they cant place first they are given the card regardless or am i missing something?

OK, sorry if this is confusing some of you, but I'll explain it all AGAIN and hopefully the message will sink in:

1. Just because they request a card doesn't mean they are given it. We have turned down Pro applications as well as awarded them in recent years. My point is that they are not automatically given to a competitor - the competitor must want to be a Pro in the first place and not everyone wants to turn Pro!

2. Given the significant differences between NZFBB Figure and IFBB Pro Figure requirements, a competitor's placing at an NZFBB National event has much less bearing on the suitability of a competitor to do well as a Professional e.g. my case in point of Raechelle Chase not winning at Nationals but making a very strong start to her Pro career recently.

There will always be debate on the best way to award or endorse Pro cards i.e. on a request-only basis or awarding them automatically to winners of certain events. There will also be debate on whether someone is worthy of a card, but surely we should be encouraging anyone who wants to turn Pro and is deemed by the NZFBB Executive to be worthy of a card ... not ridiculing them. Look at many of our Pro golfers and tennis player who are never likely to come close to winning a Major or Grand Slam event, but are following their dream to be the best they can be.

So many of you like to be "armchair critics" and poke fun at Executive and Judging decisions, and belittle some of our top competitors who dare to want to make the most of their abilities. Perhaps if you were in the "hot seat" on the Exec and/or one of our Judges you will a) be able to make your opinion actually count for something worthwhile and b) appreciate exactly what goes on behind the scenes and realise it is not at all an easy place to be much of the time.

[aln]

How about this....get the NZFBB, IFBB Amatuer International and IFBB Pro Division all to judge the same??? Or is NZFBB out on its own??

[Outlaw53]

Definitely not having a crack at you here MasterTel, I reckon that it is great that you come on here and face up to the barrage of complaints, (every one of them justified IMO).

The reasons that you have given us via the NZ Executive or Moe or whoever is running NZFBB in NZ are just complete and utter crap.

None of it makes sense at all.

Again, nothing personal against you mate - you are just the messenger.

Firstly, judging the amateurs differently to the Pros is ridiculous, NZFBB must be the only bodybuilding federation in the world that does this.

I have never heard of this anywhere else in the world.

Secondly, awarding a Pro card to competitors who could only place second (Sesa + Raechelle) is again bordering on ridiculous.

I'm all for competitors nominating to get their cards, I have no problem with that, but surely they must at least win a show?

If you were judging the amateurs by the same criteria as you judge the Pros then their would be no need to hand out Pro cards to competitors who only placed second.

If Sesa + Raechelle fit the Pro criteria then they should've won their amateur classes, you can't have one criteria for Pros and a different criteria for amateurs.

Lastly, it is perfectly obvious that Moe has set it up for both girls to get their Pro cards so as they can compete in his Pro show next year.

Both girls could've placed last and they still would've received their Pro cards.

The whole thing was fixed to ensure that Moe got his way.

To say anything else is an insult to our intelligence.

[musclenz]

How about this....get the NZFBB, IFBB Amatuer International and IFBB Pro Division all to judge the same??? Or is NZFBB out on its own??

One wonders how it works in Australia, the UK / Europe & in the US. Perhaps NZ has just got its own set of rules. Well I must get back to the "Armchair" for a bit of a kip. :grin:

[MasterTel]

Lastly, it is perfectly obvious that Moe has set it up for both girls to get their Pro cards so as they can compete in his Pro show next year.Both girls could've placed last and they still would've received their Pro cards.

The whole thing was fixed to ensure that Moe got his way.

To say anything else is an insult to our intelligence.

Well, now you are insulting ME, Outlaw53! I know you have a huge dislike for Moe, and that clearly is clouding your judgement here.

You can all rant on until you are blue in the face about Raechelle's merits in getting her Pro card, but she did wonderfully well in her first event - completely justifying the decisions made by Raechelle (to apply for) and the IFBB Pro League President (to award her card).

I've spent more than enough of my time and effort to defend the NZFBB to various imbeciles on this site over the past 5 years and I've had enough. From now on if you want any "official" NZFBB information from me it will be posted where it matters - on http://www.nzfbb.org.nz (which I administer).

I won't even bother checking this forum in future - it will make it so much easier to prevent me being tempted to wade back in ... GOODBYE!!