bullsHIIT?

[Croix]

Hey folks

Hope the labour weekend's been a good one for you all and lived up to it's name in the gym!

On the weight lifting side I've been having huge success with reps and weights flying up (especially after trying CEE and getting a proper PWO shake in afterwards - big props to everyone who posted advice for me on this, esp. Endorphin for the wealth of info)

I've done a lot of reading on HIIT in the last couple of days and have read all the rave reviews regarding increased fat loss and metabolism with lower catabolism etc etc. - sounded almost too good to be true.

Anyway I couldn't wait to give it a shot today... shit I was in for a surprise.

I strapped on my polar HR monitor and got on the elliptical, did a 5 minute warm up and got my HR to about 65% max, then did the first sprint - cranked the resistance to 15 and went dog for about 40 seconds, HR went up to 80%. It took about 2 minutes to catch my breath again then I went all out for another 30 seconds, this time my heart was burning and my HR was up at 90%. I couldnt get my HR back down by much after this and it stayed up at around 80% throughout the rest of the workout. After 4 cycles of 30 second bursts and then snail pace recovery sessions of 1.5 -2mins I was done. The whole thing lasted 21 minutes.

When I got off the machine, I felt very very dizzy, my heart felt like it was going to rip my chest open, jump out and get the helll out of the gym all by itself! I had to sit in the changing room for 15 minutes trying to catch my breath while the room was spinning and all I wanted to do was throw up. White as a ghost, I stumbled out of the gym and sat in my car for another 10 minutes before I could even turn the key.

In summary - I spent over 45 minutes on my cardio today, 21 minutes doing HIIT and 25 minutes trying to recover. I burned a measly 256 cals and after I finally felt somewhat normal again I was left feeling rather dissapointed - 20 minutes of cardio didnt seem like 'enough' to really benefit me and I certainly didn't leave the gym feeling energized or enthused.

Anyone else succesfully used HIIT as part of their fat loss cardio? How is it working out for you and are there any tips you can pass on before I go back to spending the 45min at a moderate intesity?

Many thanks - sorry bout the lengthy post!

[ExpensiveUrine]

In summary - I spent over 45 minutes on my cardio today, 21 minutes doing HIIT and 25 minutes trying to recover. I burned a measly 256 cals and after I finally felt somewhat normal again I was left feeling rather dissapointed - 20 minutes of cardio didnt seem like 'enough' to really benefit me and I certainly didn't leave the gym feeling energized or enthused.

High Intensity Interval training isn't aimed at burning fat calories during the activity itself, as it is mostly anaerobic and uses glycogen as fuel, just like weight training (depending on the program). So, like you've said, you don't burn nearly as many calories as slow endurance cardio but this isn't to say that HIIT is useless, in a way that it burns alot of calories after you've finished exercing or the "after burn" as some people might call it.

I use both, by the way.

How is it working out for you and are there any tips you can pass on before I go back to spending the 45min at a moderate intesity?

Try sprinting outside, but keep your Work:Rest ratio shorter. So instead of doing 40 sec : 120 sec, try something like 15 sec : 45 sec. (1/Work:3/Rest ratio)

And just like weight training, you can't jump into it without developing a certain base of fitness. I did something like...

(S) - Sprinting

(J) - Jogging

5 Mins.

1 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

2 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

3 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

4 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

5 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

6 Mins.

1 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

2 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

3 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

4 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

5 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

6 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

7 Mins.

1 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

2 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

3 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

4 Min. - 16 sec (S) + 44 sec (J)

5 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

6 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

7 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

8 Mins.

1 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

2 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

3 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

4 Min. - 16 sec (S) + 44 sec (J)

5 Min. - 16 sec (S) + 44 sec (J)

6 Min. - 14 sec (S) + 46 sec (J)

7 Min. - 12 sec (S) + 48 sec (J)

8 Min. - 10 sec (S) + 50 sec (J)

.. ect.

So I'd start at Week 1 - 5 mins, then Week 2 - 6 mins, ect. The important thing here that I want to stress is over time progression, whether or not you structure your workout similar to what I've posted is not really important.

Also, I'd structure my nutrition (pre/dur/post) differently for both HIIT and low intensity cardio.

[Pseudonym]

Nice post. :nod:

Also, I'd structure my nutrition (pre/dur/post) differently for both HIIT and low intensity cardio.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

[Ash]

I've been a huge fan of HIT cardio for a long time - it seems like a very efficient and effective way to burn bodyfat.

The only issue I had with HIT is that it was affecting my legs in terms of muscle size - doing HIT 3 x a week would lead to overtraining and I would lose size in my quads quite quickly. I dropped HIT completely and immediately started making good progress on my legs (until my knees started playing up).

You might not be affected that way at all but I think a combination of HIT and lower intensity but longer cardio sessions would be ideal for fitness and fat loss.

[ExpensiveUrine]

Also, I'd structure my nutrition (pre/dur/post) differently for both HIIT and low intensity cardio.

Can you elaborate on this a bit?

The primary reason why I do this is because HIIT and low intensity cardio use different fuels during exercise as well as having different physiology.

Since slow paced cardio is that of low intensity, the energy production (aerobic) occurs in mitochondria and fuels used are primarily fats (essentially FFA's and intramuscular triglycerides, this of course depends on the intensity and duration of cardio performed). As well, when there's limited amount of glucose in the body, the utilization of fat increases.

HIIT, on the other hand, is that of higher intensity. So as we go from lower intensity to higher intensity the body uses MORE glycogen (muscle/liver) than fat. As we're depleting glycogen, protein utilization also increases.

Anyway, the way I do it is...

For low intensity cardio, I probably won't have any carbs or small amount of carbs before I do it. (ie- First thing in the morning, or decrease my carb intake gradually, meal by meal, until I perform cardio). I can already hear people whispering "but wunt uz burn all dat musclez 'n' DIE!!!!111???" And that's why I consume a protein shake before I do it, maybe 15-20 mins before I run (I don't get anal about times).

Nothing for during apart from water.

For Post, protein shake with or without CHO, depending on the overall calories.

As for HIIT, I have the usual complex CHO/Low GI before (1.5-2 hrs) as well as protein (shake or otherwise, this usually depends on how much time I have).

During - Water with some CHO in it, nothing that concentrated.

Post - Protein shake with CHO.

By the way, all of this isn't set in stone. Plans might change, depending on the availability of food, supplements, stupidity, ect.

[Croix]

Thanks for the advice man,

I've been consuming a PWO shake with glucose/maltodextrin/protein (BCAA's and Glutamine) during and post weight lifting with a ratio of 1/1/1 (8g carbs per kilo BW and 4g protein).

On HIIT days, (2 so far!) I halve the carbs but keep the protein the same and only drink it post (I normally can't even think about putting anything in me for at least 20-30min following)

On lower intensity cardio days I don't bother with the glucose/malto combo and just have the protein with some milk post.

What do you think of this tactic mate?

Also, considering I'm probably not really fit enough to do HIIT properly yet, how effective would half an hour on the elliptical doing "hill intervals" be. It seems to me to be sort of a lighter HIIT session with the hill part being 2min at higher intensity (not an all out sprint) and the non hill parts being at moderate. - Or is this just going to burn muscle and not really be long enough for a decent fat burn/post metabolism increase?

Thanks

[dcx17]

I agree with what's been said so far.

I've tried HIIT post-training on a lifting day, doing it on a cardio day, and doing it on days with no other real exercise.

I've tried it morning (both on an empty stomach and post breakfast), in the afternoon, in the evening, on both sides of scheduled meals.

I found I'm able to get my best results if I have a pre-workout whey shake about 45mins before with some lowish GI carbs like oats, but not a heck of a lot - maybe a 1/3 to half cup.

I have no problem going for 20 minutes in 30 second bursts, 1.5 mins slower, rpt.

I'm more worried about recovery - if I do it on a day with other cardio which I usually do, I'll have a post workout shake with some fast carbs to replenish the glycogen.

Doing morning cardio If I skip the post workout nutrition, I feel a bit drained the rest of the day. :?

[Cammo]

I'm a fan of HIIT.

I've been waking up at about 6.30am, dropping a couple of Hydroxycut Hardcore caps & a serving of Scivation Xtend BCAA powder & then jumping on the eliptical half an hour later for 20 mins of HIIT.

I normally wait for an hour afterwards before I have breakfast.

I work from home so it's easy for me to structure my meal times.

[poos_n_wees]

I normally wait for an hour afterwards before I have breakfast

Would this be catabolic?

This was from my study notes... gotta shoot off but I can get the reference for you later:

Fat/calorie burning is elevated afterwards to restore homeostasis (i.e. body temperature, catecholamines, hemoglobin, myoglobin, etc.). It also doe not matter if you eat carbs right away either, as this will not inhibit the oxidation of fat. In fact research actually shows that getting nutrients in immediately after HIIT will actually increase EPOC, reduces muscle protein catabolism, and increases recovery, all while having the wonderful benefit of not inhbiting lipolysis.

[2guns]

not if he has a shake or something small straight after or during.

do u cammo?

[Cammo]

not if he has a shake or something small straight after or during.

do u cammo?

That's why I take my BCAA powder before I start.

[poos_n_wees]

Ahhhhh sweet.

[2guns]

oh yeah of course. hows training anyway?

[Cammo]

oh yeah of course. hows training anyway?

Not too bad - I'm getting to west wave at around 10am so I don't have fight for equipment which is good.

I just started a second cycle of HST which I got pretty good results from the first time - I'm going to look at trying DC training maybe next year.

How's training going for you? You're at Les Mills in New Lynn aren't you?

[2guns]

yeah i am.

its good there