Neck Behind Exercises - Good or Bad

[groovy]

I was just wondering if the Neck behind exercises are good or Bad.

For example....

1. Performing Pullups on a straight bar and the bar goes behind the neck. (seen in movies) :pfft:

2. Lat pulldowns, Pulling the bar behind the neck.

3. Barbell shoulder presses - Lowering the bar behind the neck.

Reason is that in my gym their is a notice on the lat pulldown machine saying that Pulling the bar behind ur neck is bad for you and does more damage than good. Is that correct?

Also for the first time today i have performed pullups behind my neck and lats never hurt so much and felt like my posterior delts were really working.

I think they were anyway. :pray: :pray:

Thanks.

[Ordy]

I've been doing behind neck exercises since i started and never had an issue.

Chinup's/pullups, pulldowns, behind neck seated shoulder presses etc

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBBehindNeckPress.html

[genetic freek]

Ask MuscleNZ what happend when he did behind the neck pulldowns :pfft:

[thatwaslight]

wears out the rotators :naughty:

[boostinggtir]

wears out the rotators :naughty:

even on behind neck barbell press? (not smith machine)

[thatwaslight]

from people ive talked to especially barbell shoulder press.

[samoan_muscle]

from people ive talked to especially barbell shoulder press.

Lol...maybe you should try it yourself rather then rely on other peoples information.

I reckon behind the neck barbell presses are awesome for rear and overall delt development.

[weener lad]

wears out the rotators :naughty:

Indeed it does, HOWEVER I will not hurt if you work it into your cycle of exercises occasionally.

[Gym rat]

very true that is one of the reasions I dont do behind neck exercise but when I have see people doing behind exercise I think not my problem if they get rotator cuff problems.

[trainharder]

i dont think behind neck presses are a huge problem for most people but exersizes like chins to behind the neck and lat pulldowns to behind the neck can put your upper spine at a curved angle with strain on it where you can do yourself an injury. this has happened to me.

[weener lad]

I should have specified in my post I was referencing Shoulder press, not chins or lat pulls. Never done behind neck lat pulls .

[ThePman]

Some people have no trouble with BTN work.

I'm not one of them, sadly. My shoulders complain loudly.

[HumanPerformance]

Yes any behind the head movements are now considered to be "contraindicated" which basically means that the benifits or rewards are outwayed by the large potential for injury. Back in the day behind the head shoulder press was the meat and potatoe movement for every bodybuilder, but these days you will see less and less people performing it (particularly at pro level). In alot of gyms now if you perform any behind the head movements - shoulder press,pulldowns ,pull ups etc the instructor on duty will inform that you are not allowed to perform that movement in that gym!

This is what they are often told to say by the management who are in turn have been informed to do this by ACC.

The problem arises because the shoulder is a floating joint which is only stabailsed by the very small rotator muscles. Whenever you perform a behind the head movement it internally rotates the shoulder joint to an un natural position. The poor little rotators cannot cope with the load and become strained or torn. And believe me a rotator injury is one of the slowest and most frustrating injuries to heal. It normally takes at least 18 months to fully heal. During that time you can say goodbye to any chest or shoulder training.

If you are a young trainer i.e under 25, you can quite often get away with behind the head movements, particularly if you are not very strong and so are not using very heavy weights. But as you get older you will start to develop rotator issues. It creeps up on you, you often dont know anything is wrong untill its to late. It starts off with a very dull ache that seems to come and go (and you will think it has gone away) but then all of a sudden one day out of the blue you wont be able to lift your arm above shoulder height, you wont be able to bench or chin up or anything.

[groovy]

It clearly looks like from the responses Behind neck exercises are BAD in general and SHOULD be avoided.

I will stay away from them, even though when i did the pullups it felt good but in fact it could only making it worse. :doh: :doh: :doh:

I dont need anymore injuries. :pfft: :pfft:

Thanks alll.

[rose]

It creeps up on you, you often dont know anything is wrong untill its to late

Waaa, a horror story.

[thatwaslight]

^what he said

[Mike Zero]

I think there is a big hysteria about going behind the neck. Obviously it's not for everyone, but I am one of those who gets away with it. Behind the neck press on a smith machine is great because you don't have to stabilize the shoulder joint yourself. And it hits all three heads of the shoulder well, especially the side and rear delts which are usually the one's that are lacking.

[rose]

I think there is a big hysteria

You just described the industry as a whole :shock: :pfft:

[thatwaslight]

yeah i think using the smith is ok but id just rather not risk it.

[ThePman]

That's because there's too many physios trying to be trainers/coaches. They don't overlap well.

[HumanPerformance]

I think there is a big hysteria about going behind the neck. Obviously it's not for everyone, but I am one of those who gets away with it. Behind the neck press on a smith machine is great because you don't have to stabilize the shoulder joint yourself. And it hits all three heads of the shoulder well, especially the side and rear delts which are usually the one's that are lacking.

Actually mike behind the head shoulder press (BHSP) on a smith machine is worse than pressing with a free bar. When you have a rotator or any shoulder injury the first thing the physios or surgeons will lecture you on is the use of overhead pressing movements perfromed on machines. This is for the very reason you mentioned, that the rotators dont have to work as hard as normal. But this weakens the rotators (in relation to the strengthening surrounding musculature) even faster than normal, thus cuasing rotator problems even sooner . Physios and surgeons will tell you that multi directional shoulder press machines are better than smith machines etc but still not as safe as free weights. This is because smith machines and the like force you to move the weight in a perfect 90 degree line, not the natural arc that occurs with a free weight.

I do agree with you though mike that there is alot of hysteria surrounding this issue. I myself performed behind the head shoulder press form the age of 14 and never ever had any problems with it (even when doing sets with 100kg for reps twice a week) untill I hit my late 20s early 30s.I still actually consider it to be the single most effective exercise for building shoulder size.But reluctantly I have had to pretty much give it up, and stop giving it to my clients simply because of the rotator problems both myself and my clients have recieved from it. If you are regularly training your rotators you might be able to get away with it.

[samoan_muscle]

Human Performance: How about those smith machines that move back and forth rather than just up and down? The rotators are a little more involved with this machine as opposed to the smith's that just go up and down.

[Rag the Dog]

if it hurts, dont do it. If not then it will probably do you good. Most people are ok with the behind neckers, but you just gotta be a bit more careful and check your ego at the door. Puts your shouders in a funny position and things can go wrong if you go too heavy or too often. I can do all BN exercises well enough without pain, but I do stear clear of dips cause I have previously injured my shoulders and pex from that position. All is good in moderation - definately not as functional as a front press or pull though

[Mike Zero]

This is for the very reason you mentioned, that the rotators dont have to work as hard as normal. But this weakens the rotators (in relation to the strengthening surrounding musculature) even faster than normal, thus cuasing rotator problems even sooner.

Doesn't this go against what you said before?

The problem arises because the shoulder is a floating joint which is only stabailsed by the very small rotator muscles. Whenever you perform a behind the head movement it internally rotates the shoulder joint to an un natural position. The poor little rotators cannot cope with the load and become strained or torn.

Having a powerlifting background I'm naturally not a smith machine advocate, but I really like it in this case. I don't see the straight line thing as a problem here, as long as you set up so the bar stays close. A risk I see with barbell BTN press is that the bar can veer further behind you which obviously is going to put your shoulders in a much worse position. Not against BB BTN press or anything though.

Again I think machines are safer than free weights (again, as long as the line matches your body safely), but you're generally not going to get big and strong on machines so it's the risks we take.

Agree RE: making sure you keep the RC muscles strong. I think everyone should put effort into this whether they do smith BTN press or not.

[Dr Squat]

Like all of these things, I think there is a danger in over analysing things and complicating matters unnecessarily.

I agree that if it feels uncomfortable then you need to back off. I am pretty simple so I have to keep things simple. When I first started doing smith machine behind neck press I was terrible. I was very inflexible and weak. I persevered without being stupid and kept the weight down until I developed a good range of motion. As a result my shoulder strength and size has increased and this is a big part of why my bench press has improved.

In terms of physios and other medical professionals and what they have to say on the matter? With respect, many have probably not done a lot of serious weight training. But then again this is also probably true of many PTs. Not that practical experience is a prerequisite for having an opinion. But maybe it does help?