Chest and....... Biceps OR Triceps ??

[Hercfeend]

Over the years I have seen a great many people advocate and indeed train their Chest and Triceps on the same day. Why is this?

As I see it, when you work your chest you are also working your tris, consequently when you come to your tricep exercises that session your tris are already fatigued (to one degree or another) and therefore you can’t be getting the most out of them.

If on the other hand you train Chest and Biceps (and for sake of argument Back and Triceps another), you keep the ‘sympathetic’ muscles groups separate and thus fresh for their specific exercises...... This surely will mean they (your Bis and Tris) are fresh and can be targeted with greater intensity.

What are your thoughts?

[groovy]

I used to Chest + Triceps and Back and Biceps before but recently i have switched them to Chest + biceps and Back + triceps.

I have noticed that my DB weights for chest have gone up a little and my triceps are not wasted as they used to before while working out the chest. My back weights have also improved.

I will be interested in this topic as well. Im a newbie too and hopefully im not making it worse for myself. :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:

[nate225]

Simple answer is to alternate between both!

Do Chest/Bi & Back/Tri, of course you will be stronger on the latter exercises when not pre-exhausted. Then when you want a change swap to Chest/Tri & back/bi.

Both have their place, you'll find one will suit you more than the other and evntually no doubt you'll settle on what works best for you individually (i.e. what assists your growth, rather than what means biggest weights lifted).

Nate

[groovy]

Simple answer is to alternate between both!

Do Chest/Bi & Back/Tri, of course you will be stronger on the latter exercises when not pre-exhausted. Then when you want a change swap to Chest/Tri & back/bi.

Both have their place, you'll find one will suit you more than the other and evntually no doubt you'll settle on what works best for you individually (i.e. what assists your growth, rather than what means biggest weights lifted).

Nate

Cheers Nate. But bigger weights means more strength gained and more growth in general isnt? (assuming that the form is correct and also varying exercises) :pray: :pray:

[Dr Squat]

Over the years I have seen a great many people advocate and indeed train their Chest and Triceps on the same day. Why is this?

As I see it, when you work your chest you are also working your tris, consequently when you come to your tricep exercises that session your tris are already fatigued (to one degree or another) and therefore you can’t be getting the most out of them.

If on the other hand you train Chest and Biceps (and for sake of argument Back and Triceps another), you keep the ‘sympathetic’ muscles groups separate and thus fresh for their specific exercises...... This surely will mean they (your Bis and Tris) are fresh and can be targeted with greater intensity.

What are your thoughts?

I used to train triceps after chest but I now devote a single day to chest. The problem I had with trying to train either tris or bis after chest is that I was just fried and I couldn't use enough weight to do them justice. Of course this means an extra day in the gym.

[nate225]

Simple answer is to alternate between both!

Do Chest/Bi & Back/Tri, of course you will be stronger on the latter exercises when not pre-exhausted. Then when you want a change swap to Chest/Tri & back/bi.

Both have their place, you'll find one will suit you more than the other and evntually no doubt you'll settle on what works best for you individually (i.e. what assists your growth, rather than what means biggest weights lifted).

Nate

Cheers Nate. But bigger weights means more strength gained and more growth in general isnt? (assuming that the form is correct and also varying exercises) :pray: :pray:

Breaking down muscle fibres and rebuilding them equals growth!

Whether you break them down by pre-exhausting & then smashing them with albeit lighter weights or starting fresh and using heavier weights to do the job probably doesn't matter too much.

Use both methods for a month and see what you prefer? Personally I prefer seperate days as the tris / bi get hit twice (once directly & once indirectly). My body & recovery times suit this, your may or may not.

Being new to the sport read a lot, but don't overanalyse things - as Vince Dizenzo, (an 800 lbs. bencher) said "Too many guys are looking for the right program instead of just Smashing Fucking Weights".

[GHOSTN]

i have done both ways aswell and after reading an article by layne norton he was saying for him he got better growth when going to an arm only day so i encorperated this into my training i have gained an inch on my arms since then, that was about 4months ago..

i go in with fresh arms and abliterate bi's and tri's get a mad pump

seems to be working for me but each to their own

[Gym rat]

I use do chest with biceps but now I train biceps with back. I have notice that I can use the 40's for db incline press since I have started training my biceps after I do back

[Ordy]

I just found i was getting way to exhausted doing 2 of anything on a day.

So now i do these all as separate days:

chest

back

arms

shoulders

quads

calves+hamstring+lowerback

Abs & cardio

Just started doing this, but found each part gets destroyed on the day

not in that order, and rest days when needed.

Seems to be working much better though.

[nate225]

I just found i was getting way to exhausted doing 2 of anything on a day.

So now i do these all as separate days:

chest

back

arms

shoulders

quads

calves+hamstring+lowerback

Abs & cardio

Just started doing this, but found each part gets destroyed on the day

not in that order, and rest days when needed.

Seems to be working much better though.

That is a great split for an intermediate / advanced bodybuilder. Would be fucking nuts to get a newbie doing that though.

4 day splits are fantastic for most BBers. If you then get accustomed to volume (most here aren't looking at training logs) you can ramp up to a single body part split (and hit 20+ set a group).

[thatwaslight]

I just found i was getting way to exhausted doing 2 of anything on a day.

So now i do these all as separate days:

chest

back

arms

shoulders

quads

calves+hamstring+lowerback

Abs & cardio

Just started doing this, but found each part gets destroyed on the day

not in that order, and rest days when needed.

Seems to be working much better though.

Currently following this programme and getting great results except for the cardio

[Ordy]

That is a great split for an intermediate / advanced bodybuilder. Would be fucking nuts to get a newbie doing that though.

4 day splits are fantastic for most BBers. If you then get accustomed to volume (most here aren't looking at training logs) you can ramp up to a single body part split (and hit 20+ set a group).

Yeah most days are around 20ish sets total. Just depends how im feeling and reps/weights that week.

I just had to juggle around what follows what, as i needed to many rest days.

[musclenz]

Simple answer is to alternate between both!

Do Chest/Bi & Back/Tri, of course you will be stronger on the latter exercises when not pre-exhausted. Then when you want a change swap to Chest/Tri & back/bi.

Both have their place, you'll find one will suit you more than the other and evntually no doubt you'll settle on what works best for you individually (i.e. what assists your growth, rather than what means biggest weights lifted).

Nate

Cheers Nate. But bigger weights means more strength gained and more growth in general isnt? (assuming that the form is correct and also varying exercises) :pray: :pray:

Breaking down muscle fibres and rebuilding them equals growth!

Whether you break them down by pre-exhausting & then smashing them with albeit lighter weights or starting fresh and using heavier weights to do the job probably doesn't matter too much.

Use both methods for a month and see what you prefer? Personally I prefer seperate days as the tris / bi get hit twice (once directly & once indirectly). My body & recovery times suit this, your may or may not.

Being new to the sport read a lot, but don't overanalyse things - as Vince Dizenzo, (an 800 lbs. bencher) said "Too many guys are looking for the right program instead of just Smashing Fucking Weights".

Haaaaa Haaaaa Your unquestionable knowledge of the game often leads you sitting on the fence to avoid any offence Big Nathan. I love your Vince Dizenzo quote. However, all things taken into account I would be inclined to agree with you on your advice to alternate between both although from a mass building point of view I feel a greater benefit can be gained by multing up Chest & Tris because of the obvious correlation between the two muscle groups & the synergy that can be achieved with say performing Close grip chest press for example that hits both body parts effectively.

[johnnybravo007]

I have used Chest + Tris, Chest + Bis, arms on their own and now currently use split below. I found that although my tris grew really well, my bis needed hammering to get them to grow (still do). I found that doing them after back help pre-fatigue them which has worked well for me. However i think changing things up is the key. I do an assessment after say an 8 week period and see if my gains have started to taper off (depending if im building or dieting). Then i would reassess my diet and training split (my exercises are changed up regularly from week to week keeping things pretty simple). Also assessing for imbalances is a must as well.

Mon - Cardio + Abs

Tues - Back + Bis

Wed - Rest

Thurs - Shoulders + Tris

Fri - Legs

Sat - Morning Cardio

Sun - Chest

[Dragon]

I use chest + tri. I need heaps less weight to wreck my tris after a chest workout. If I do chest and tri on different days I need to use more weight on dips and tricep press to get the same effect.

[nate225]

Cheers Nate. But bigger weights means more strength gained and more growth in general isnt? (assuming that the form is correct and also varying exercises) :pray: :pray:

Breaking down muscle fibres and rebuilding them equals growth!

Whether you break them down by pre-exhausting & then smashing them with albeit lighter weights or starting fresh and using heavier weights to do the job probably doesn't matter too much.

Use both methods for a month and see what you prefer? Personally I prefer seperate days as the tris / bi get hit twice (once directly & once indirectly). My body & recovery times suit this, your may or may not.

Being new to the sport read a lot, but don't overanalyse things - as Vince Dizenzo, (an 800 lbs. bencher) said "Too many guys are looking for the right program instead of just Smashing Fucking Weights".

Haaaaa Haaaaa Your unquestionable knowledge of the game often leads you sitting on the fence to avoid any offence Big Nathan. I love your Vince Dizenzo quote. However, all things taken into account I would be inclined to agree with you on your advice to alternate between both although from a mass building point of view I feel a greater benefit can be gained by multing up Chest & Tris because of the obvious correlation between the two muscle groups & the synergy that can be achieved with say performing Close grip chest press for example that hits both body parts effectively.

MNZ, wise as ever!

I actually have a light tri day after chest (although I only really train 'body parts' in the offseason, thereafter I train 'movements') and a heavy tri session after back (upper). Gets a bit complicated for this discussion.

To summarise this thread and my views (as not to sit on fences! :grin:):

* Chest/tri & back/bi or Chest/bi & back/tri are both fine for most, and definately for novice BBers.

* Alternating between the two splits is a good idea, change is great for growth (and sanity). If, after a few cycles of each, one split suits more than the other stick with it.

* Most serious intermediates/advanced BBers would benefit from splitting bodyparts further, (although I note I stuck with a 4 day spilt for many years and kept gaining, before moving to 5-6 days).

* Moving to a 6 day, single body part per day, 20+ sets per bodypart, seems to be the ticket for (most) advanced BBers. However would be detrimental to novices and even some intermediates as the committment needed (to handle volume, eating, sleeping etc) is high.

Nate

[Hercfeend]

Some awesome advice there guys. Thanks for contributing. Definitely improved my understanding.....which of course is the idea!

[nemesis]

[quote name="nate225

Being new to the sport read a lot' date=' but don't overanalyse things - as Vince Dizenzo, (an 800 lbs. bencher) said "Too many guys are looking for the right program instead of just Smashing Fucking Weights".

[Beef]

Over the years I have seen a great many people advocate and indeed train their Chest and Triceps on the same day. Why is this?

As I see it, when you work your chest you are also working your tris, consequently when you come to your tricep exercises that session your tris are already fatigued (to one degree or another) and therefore you can’t be getting the most out of them.

If on the other hand you train Chest and Biceps (and for sake of argument Back and Triceps another), you keep the ‘sympathetic’ muscles groups separate and thus fresh for their specific exercises...... This surely will mean they (your Bis and Tris) are fresh and can be targeted with greater intensity.

What are your thoughts?

if you're training to get bigger then the whole idea is to fatigue the muscles as much as possible so its a good thing! unless you're training for strength, i'd stick with chest and tris

[Beef]

Close grip chest press for example that hits both body parts effectively.

does close grip actually work ur chest as well?

[ThePman]

To answer the OP, I tend to look at it more in terms of "what lift is being trained" and then "what will help this lift improve". Frankly I don't know if there's much purpose to giving the triceps their own muscle-blasting session if you're already hitting them twice a week with a "pressing" workout. If they're a weak point, slam them with an exercise or two for higher volume after the fact, by why would you feel the need to train them as a fresh muscle group after they've already been worked?

Same would go for biceps/forearms after a heavy session of chins and/or rows. The muscles are already worked; what are you going to accomplish by grinding them into paste?

Honestly I don't think most guys have any business breaking things down into sessions for every single body part if they aren't already lifting fairly big numbers in the first place. The vast majority of small dudes trying to get bigger are going to see much more benefit by spending time bringing up their squat and bench instead of splitting their body up into muscle-group workouts 5 or 6 days a week.

Worrying about this kind of detail is putting the cart before the horse, IMO.

[ThePman]

if you're training to get bigger then the whole idea is to fatigue the muscles as much as possible

You sure about that?

[musclenz]

If you are training your chest properly & targeting the upper & lower pecs, then your triceps should not be involved to any great degree. This is where those who do a lot of flat bench press wrongly recruit shoulders, lats, bis & tris into the lift & wonder why their chest never grows.

[tonyb]

Mix it up like tiger. :pfft:

[Oros]

I think your goin to get as many varying opinions to this question as what there are members to this site..

..having said that, way back in my archive of magazines/books etc, the one comment that I read somewhere, that keeps working it self to the front of my mind when I'm working out a new program:

Back (width emphasis) + Biceps, works well together provided Biceps involves no more than 4 to 6 sets, preferably heavy compounds.

If Back (thickness emphasis) is the primary goal of the program, Biceps should follow no sooner than 48hrs after Back workout or 72hrs before Back workout

Front Delts + Medial Delts + Triceps works well together provided Triceps involves no more than 3 to 5 sets, preferably heavy compounds.

If Chest (thickness emphasis) is the goal of the program, Triceps should follow no sooner than 48hrs after Chest workout or 72hrs before Chest workout

All this is pretty much theory based on that particular authors experiences, and does not particularly make sense if you're training only 3 - 4 days per week but, still it may help if the same old stock-standard-text-book-Monday-to-Friday-routines are doing naf all for you.

To throw a spanner in the works DC training has Biceps on the same day but, straight after Quads, Hammies & Calves....but that be another can-o-worms all by itself...