Nutrition Help

[drizzt]

Hi all I'm currently looking to trim a bit for beach season (isn't everybody?), and I'm looking for some advice on the nutritional aspect of my regime. I'm currently happy with where my cardio training is going (which I increase/decrease depending on how the body feels), and happy as well with the weights (although I may start another thread to get scrutiny from you guys to make sure I'm going ok), so just looking at tidying up the diet for now.

Stats:

Weight: 100kg

Height: 183cm

BF: Haven't tested for a while, but at a guess I'd say somewhere around 17-18% (will try and get a pic up soon, I'm a bit shy :oops: )

The goal is to get down to 95kg by late November - this may not sound like too tough of a goal, but I'm wanting to keep steadily building lean muscle on this whilst losing fat.

My current week of training goes like this (weights sessions are all at lunchtime, so are roughly an hour each):

Monday - Weights (usually Chest/Forearms), Boxing class from 8-9 (includes a bit of abs)

Tuesday - Weights (usually Legs), no cardio

Wednesday - No weights, ~1hr Cardio at the gym incl treadmill, rowing, box jumping, x-trainer etc (I usually mix this up, add in or leave things out), abs workout (but not too strenuous as I do more at boxing later in the day). Boxing class again 8-9

Thursday - Weights (Shoulders/bis usually), cardio is a brisk ~1-and-a-bit hour walk home from Wellington city - Johnsonville

Friday - Weights (Back/tris usually), if I'm feeling up for it (usually get into the end of week body relax mode :oops: ) I'll go for a fairly fast-paced jog around the local streets which include a lot of incline/decline. Generally takes about 15mins

Saturday - Rest day

Sunday - Bag work, abs, and skipping rope at home, jog at the end (same as Friday's)

Now, my diet currently looks a little like this (I'll use Monday as an example of a typical weekday):

7.30am - Oats with water, 2 egg whites - cooked in the pan (just to make them a little solid) and then chucked on the oats, banana which is also on top of the oats for a bit of flavour

9am - A One Square Meal bar, Coffee with trim milk, multi vit tablet. (I used to have 4 OSM bars (singular, not both bars) per day as my only food - barring dinner - but have stopped this due to the shift in goals and wanting to cut the carbs down. Are these bars still ok for this time of day? As an office worker they're fairly convenient which was my initial reason for picking them up - as well as laziness in regards to preparing food)

11am - Can of tuna (85g can), piece of fruit (banana usually, but whatever is at hand)

1pm - There is a bit of a break in this period, because this is when I take my pre-workout NO supplement before weight training, and it needs to be done on an empty stomach. I've gotten used to it, but can sometimes find myself a little hungry after the workout.

2pm - 2 Scoops of Protein in water (ON Gold Whey at the moment) immediately following workout

3pm - Another can of tuna (85g)

5pm - If I'm feeling hungry, I've got a stash of (vita-wheat wholegrain) crackers/lite cottage cheese at work that I munch on just before finishing for the day. I find I need something to plug the ~4hour gap between 3pm-dinner.

6.30-7pm - Dinner. Monday I had 2 wholegrain burritos with chicken breast (about 100g in each wrap), lettuce, carrots, lite cottage cheese and lite sweet thai chili sauce to flavour. Mondays (and Wednesdays) are tricky because boxing class starts at 8pm, so I don't want to over-eat before it and feel bloated, or on the other side under-eat and not have enough energy.

9.15pm - Another wrap as above. I don't like eating this close to bed (which is usually about 11pm) but don't know what alternatives there are with a boxing class at this time?

Edit (adding a bit to the above) - I've also cut out Alcohol (until New years at least... heh heh), but may have one or two low carb beers with mates over the weekend - is this ok?

I've also cut out any Orange Juice (Simply squeezed/Just juice used to be my vices), and instead have one or two green teas a day, and sip on a bottle of water throughout the day (which gets refilled a few times obviously). Weekend eating is very unplanned, but I wouldn't say it's bad as such (i.e I don't scoff pies, cakes etc all weekend). Any tips on what I should be doing on the weekends?

This diet is what I've come to after a few weeks of slowly cutting stuff out, so I feel I've refined it almost as much as my nutritional knowledge allows. I'm unsure if I need more or less of anything (protein, energy, carbs etc).[/edit]

OK, so there it is. I've recently purchased a fair amount of tuna, a few cans of chop chop chicken (never tried it before) and some fruit. So, fire away with tips/flames/comments! I'm really open to what you have to say, as I'm incredibly keen to get this diet nice and tidy for once.

I'm looking at buying some Casein protein for before bed, good idea in regards to my trimming down goal?

I'm sorry if that was a bit much to read, I just wanted to put as much info as I could out there (conversely, let me know if you need more info )

Cheers in advance

[Draft]

Wow, lot of info, may take people time to filter through it.

I'd make three points.

First, don't get too preoccupied with weight, if you keep your diet clean and train hard you may increase your weight but still reduce bf% (which I assume is what you want). In the end the tape measure and calipers will tell the tale in my opinion.

Also, try keeping a calorie log. Assess how much of your daily caloric intake is coming from fat/carb/protein - gives you an idea of how much you need of something and where your overdoing something - you may need to assess how many calories you need per day.

And alcohol, well heaps of people would say avoid it, each ml of alcohol has 7 calories. So on average a beer like Heineken has around 150 calories each (115 from alcohol). Personally, I still have a few most weeks and am managing to keep relatively on track with my goals if I keep everything else clean. Wouldn't recommend it if competing though.

Also, keep in mind that something about the chemical nature of alcohol increases the body's ability to store fat so most of what you eat goes to fat while drinking whatever it is.

[drizzt]

Thanks for the reply. Yep, I thought I may have written a bit much :oops: but also wanted to make sure I covered everything, as I sometimes see people expecting help from a couple of short sentences

Yeah, as I said with the alcohol it is only a couple of (low-carb) beers a week (if that at all) but have no problem cutting them out completely. Everything is ok in moderation though, right?

Also I was kind of thinking the same thing with the weight in regards to it just being a number, but thought it would be a nice tangible goal for me to reach. But you are right that I may get heavier and be happy, so BF would be a better goal, just need to get off my arse and get a skin fold test or something done to learn where I'm at :nod: May see if I can book one in at the gym soonish.

The calorie intake point you make is a good one, I've never had the knowledge to implement something like that before. A couple of questions I'd ask though, would be where do I start? And what kind of target should I set for trimming? (i.e most of my calories from Protein?). I saw something on stronglifts.com in regards to the Cunningham equation, is this something I should be looking at doing?

Thanks again for the reply

[rose]

Re One Square Meals, I'd opt for something better. Per serve, you get 8g of saturated fat and 30g of sugar from awesome things like rice syrup and fructose. Personally I'd organise myself better so that my calories were better spent on unprocessed food with a superior nutritional profile. More bang for your calorie dollar etc. You'd save money too. Aren't those squares of shite expensive? Oh and the protein is derived solely from soy. And they add vitamins to disguise them as healthy! :pfft:

Muesli bars in a packet are seldom healthy. Sorry. Fail :snooty:

INGREDIENTS

Rolled oats, Brown rice syrup, Vegetable oil, Maltodextrin, Isolated soy protein (non GM), Dried cranberries 6% (cranberries, deionised & clarified pineapple juice concentrates, vegetable oil), Whole grain wheat, Humectant (glycerin), Rice flour, Vegetable gum (acacia), Raisins, Manuka honey 2%, Blackcurrant fruit pieces 2% (fruit (concentrated apple puree, deionised apple juice concentrate, blackcurrant puree, concentrated blackcurrant juice), wheat fibre, gelling agent (pectin), natural flavour), Emulsifier (soy lecithin), Salt, Vitamins & Minerals (Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin C, Niacin, Vitamin E, Zinc, Vitamin B2, Vitamin B6, Iron, Vitamin B1, Vitamin A, Folate, Iodine, Vitamin D, Vitamin B12), Natural flavour, Food acid (citric acid), Malted barley extract. Contains soy & gluten containing cereal products. This product or some of its ingredients are made on equipment that handles sesame seeds, tree nuts & milk products.

[drizzt]

Fair calls, thanks Rose. I have been slowly dropping them - haven't dropped them completely due to the fact I have a fair bit left :oops: So I've gone down from 4 bars, to 1 a day, and I'm thinking of offloading what I have left to my brother :wink: They worked out at $1.70 per bar after shipping, as I buy them in bulk from the factory store in CHCH.

Cost for me isn't too much of an issue either - not saying I don't want to save money where I can, but if something is a really good option and is a little more expensive I don't mind forking over extra for it :nod:

Re: unprocessed food, are you saying I should rely less on the canned foods (not only the OSMs) and prepare meals for the day? I'm notoriously bad at doing things like that (i.e cooking that involves more than chucking something on a pan :pfft:) which is in part I guess why I first got into the OSMs, and why Tuna/Chop Chop appeals... But if it's for the greater good of my diet, I'm willing to change my ways

p.s Any advice on Casein protein? Good or bad idea when looking to trim fat?

[runveerun]

Any real food is better than processed food, it's a matter of being prepared!

I cook up meat in a giant lot for my meals and put them into separate containers and take to work in a cool-bag. It's cheaper and better for you than eating out of packets! I always have some almonds on me and some Protein powder stashed at work and in my bag in case I get caught short without a meal on me.

[roadie]

hey drizzt,

can you check how much carb per wrap.....from memory each one has a lot of carb in it so you may be getting more than 100g just from your main meal at night once you add sauce and other veges.....not totally sure i dont have info i can find....might not be to bad over all but why not move some carbs to earlier in the day when you are only eating tuna??

this may stop the hunger at 5...have a better feed at 3pm an hour after the gym...go home and eat asap after work

[drizzt]

Any real food is better than processed food, it's a matter of being prepared!

I cook up meat in a giant lot for my meals and put them into separate containers and take to work in a cool-bag. It's cheaper and better for you than eating out of packets! I always have some almonds on me and some Protein powder stashed at work and in my bag in case I get caught short without a meal on me.

Cool, thanks I am quite keen to start preparing food for the week after hearing this feedback, what kind of food do you prepare? Also, if caught short do you recommend having a protein shake in lieu of a meal? I've read that Almonds (as well as most nuts) are quite high in calories, so this may be a bad idea for my trimming program - especially if I'm going to be snacking on them in the afternoon?

hey drizzt,

can you check how much carb per wrap.....from memory each one has a lot of carb in it so you may be getting more than 100g just from your main meal at night once you add sauce and other veges.....not totally sure i dont have info i can find....might not be to bad over all but why not move some carbs to earlier in the day when you are only eating tuna??

this may stop the hunger at 5...have a better feed at 3pm an hour after the gym...go home and eat asap after work

Thanks for the reply Roadie. Per wrap, the wholegrain ones I think are about 16g carbs? This is from memory though, I'm not at home so don't have any handy (must remember to check). What is an "acceptable" amount for dinner? I'm keen to try harder at making lower carb meals but I'm unsure how far to go with it (the wraps are a good example of this, as I thought they were "low enough" :oops:). But yep, I did have a bit of a goal in my mind to shift most of my carbs to the first half of the day before I workout, just need a bit of help fine tuning what is and isn't an acceptable amount I guess

I'll give the bigger feed at 3pm idea a go on Monday and see how it tides me over :nod:

[Draft]

Beers are your call really, it depends how much you want to trim down, over what period and how much you want to lose. It will slow your progress without a doubt but one or two beers on the weekend won't kill it altogether.

Oh yea, before I forget - apparently alcohol kills protein synthesis - while your body is process alcohol it can't process protein too. Might not be as much of a factor for a beer or too but no point train before a hard drink sesh - will see no muscle gain (can anyone confirm?)

Try these calculators/formulas:

http://www.maximuscle.com/static/caloriecalculatorwin.html

http://www.bodybuildbid.com/articles/weightloss/calorie-calculator.html

The results you get will depend on how much information you have. I tend to target a bit below them to be honest though.

I've thought about getting Casein myself. Good at night as a slow release protein - if buying a powder try and get something with micellar casein rather than calcium caseinate. Generally you will find that it has been mixed with a WPI. At the mo I just have a bit of WPC mixed with peanut butter (fat slows release) before bed. Casein will be a bit more expensive but if thats not an issue it will help maintain lean mass.

Can also look at moving from starchy carbs (bread, pasta, rice, potatoes) to fibrous carbs (veges) at night. I personally try not to have any starchy carbs after 3pm, my dinner is meat and 3 vege. If your training at night (or with boxing) you might need to work this a little diff though. Without carbs you won't have a lot of energy particularly if your boxing is anywhere the intensity I think it will be.

[runveerun]

Cool, thanks I am quite keen to start preparing food for the week after hearing this feedback, what kind of food do you prepare? Also, if caught short do you recommend having a protein shake in lieu of a meal? I've read that Almonds (as well as most nuts) are quite high in calories, so this may be a bad idea for my trimming program - especially if I'm going to be snacking on them in the afternoon?

I am on the CHA (carb haters anonymous) diet at the mo so I am eating protein and fats with the odd vege or fruit thrown in.

But eating lean meat or fish for your protein is essential so work out how much protein you need per day 1.6 grams per kg of body weight from memory and then divide it up into your meals.

You should eat real food if you can I was only suggesting carrying protein shake on you in case you run out of food!

Nuts are high in calories but have good fats in them as long as you don't eat them by the 1kg every day you should be good!! (like a handful at a time!)

It's better than eating processed non-sense!! :grin:

[drizzt]

Thanks Nicko, that's enough to scare me off a big binge session while I'm working towards my goals :nod: I definitely don't want to stunt my hard work in the weights room, and my work towards a better diet either. I'll look at purchasing some Casein early this coming week too, sounds good. The fat+protein idea looks good as an alternative, but I'll be purchasing some more protein for home anyway (keep my protein at work because I work out at lunchtime) so might as well just grab Casein and maybe a small tub of Isolate to sprinkle on the oats in the morning...

Thanks vee, I've bought myself a big bag of almonds which I'm going to split into smaller bags for snacks at work. Will these be a good option to scoff a few before Boxing class at night? My reasoning here, is I can keep to the low carb dinner, but have a few of these for energy instead. Is that right?

Thanks again for the advice guys, I'm learning a lot Even with the small changes I've made in the past couple of weeks I'm starting to see some results in the mirror, and have dropped about a kilo whilst the weights continue to get bigger :grin: I'm currently googling ideas for low carb dinners and packed lunches, any favourties you guys can suggest?

[drizzt]

Just looking at the Optimum Nutrition 100% Casein Protein for home this morning, saw that it had Micellar caseinates (like Nicko suggested), as well as being decently priced, and low in carbs. Is this ok? Any other suggestions? Nitrosyn has also caught my eye (a little more protein, and a little less carbs per scoop - however it looks like it's calcium caseinate?).

I did also look at Inner Armour Super Quad, but it appears they have slightly more calories (146cal vs 120cal), and more carbs (8g as opposed to 4g) per scoop than the ON.

[drizzt]

Sweet, well since I've changed my diet and upped my cardio (changes begun about 3 weeks ago, with some adjustments here and there in that time), I've dropped about 3.8kg I realize BF is the real measure I should be after, but it's cool to see the numbers on the scales dropping anyway whilst doing things right (i.e not overtraining or under-eating as I have done to lose weight in the past), and the weights I'm lifting haven't suffered either - in fact, are still heading upwards steadily - which is a good indicator of what I'm dropping.

Bit gutted I didn't do a BodyFat test to see exactly how much BF I've lost to this point, but visibly I can certainly see more definition coming through, especially legs, shoulders, arms and chest. Still a way to go on the stomach, but that always seems to come last for me :? So I'm in no hurry there.

For the diet changes since my last post, I've bought myself some Fish Oil tablets of which I'm having 1 with breakfast and 1 with dinner, and ordered some Casein protein this morning for the pre-sleep nutrition (of which is non-existent currently). I've also made myself chicken salads for lunch - containing dark green salad leaves, carrots, and chicken breast, with a dash of Lite salad dressing (low fat, low carb). OSMs are also completely cut (I've managed to sell them off ), and I'm enjoying finding new low-carb recipes for dinner and lunch to add some variety to the diet.

So thanks again for the tips people (keep em coming if you have more suggestions!), I might look at keeping track of my progress on a journal here