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Bicep training - ROM variation??

startinfromscratch
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startinfromscratch Veteran member

startinfromscratch

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Hi all,

was doing some online reading the other day re bicep training, cant find the link again but essentially the article was about how using different roms effects muscle recruitment with bicep work.

In short, the article noted that when your arm is fully extended, to bring your elbow to 90 degrees you actually use mostly forearm/supporting muscle, and its not till your arm is at this point that the bicep takes over the majority of the load.

So this means that if you only use full ROM exes in your bicep training, your selling yourself short because your limited by the weaker forearm muscles! whereas if you do some exes with a partial rom, you can overload the bis more because your not restricted by your forearms limitation. It makes sense yes?

so to me this suggests that when doing chins, you shouldnt lower down to full extension?? as this could potentially leave you failing with support muscle, not bis???????

thoughts? experiences busting bicep plateaus? discuss..

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shruglife Senior member

shruglife

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Chinups were a Back movement last time I checked. It's important that you get a good stretch for all your Back exercises so I wouldn't promote partial Chins. Performing BB Curls with a slight bend in your arms at the bottom of the movement stops you getting stuck with your arms fully extended and isolates your Biceps nicely.

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shruglife Senior member

shruglife

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chins - narrow grip, palms towards you, on a straight bar. they do hit back, but predominantly bis...

yea im curious as to what others do, as ive always used full rom so far, so im not 'cheating' . but i may be 'cheating' myself out of potential gains..

I strongly disagree http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lat ... hinup.html

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startinfromscratch Veteran member

startinfromscratch

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http://stronglifts.com/how-to-do-pull-u ... technique/

i do mine narrower grip, and i fail on bis before lats (prefatigued).

there was a massive debate thread on here a while ago about the whole chins/pullups argument, everyone seems to have diff. opinions.

i guess to rephrase the question - chins, do you peeps come to a 'dead hang'? or do you stop before full extension?

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musclenz Veteran member

musclenz

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chins - narrow grip, palms towards you, on a straight bar. they do hit back, but predominantly bis...

yea im curious as to what others do, as ive always used full rom so far, so im not 'cheating' . but i may be 'cheating' myself out of potential gains..

I strongly disagree http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lat ... hinup.html

I strongly disagree with You, shruglife :D

Close grip pull-ups are to biceps what dips are to triceps. Your link did include the brachialis & brachioradialis as being recruited in chin-ups which of course they are. You can perform them Military style on the bars with palms facing each other or close grip with the palms facing towards you. The knees need to be slightly bent. Compare it to a barbell curl where the bicep is not fully recruited at the bottom or top of the lift, the pull up uses your body weight (remember you are using 100kg maybe or more for the big guys, can you curl 100kg??). In the chin you are working the bicep with more constantv tension from the bottom to the top of the lift. Granted it is a compound movement but the bicep is put under a lot more stress in a chin than some bicep isolation exercises. Try it & compare if you are not familar with chins for bicep work.

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genetic freek Senior member

genetic freek

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chins - narrow grip, palms towards you, on a straight bar. they do hit back, but predominantly bis...

yea im curious as to what others do, as ive always used full rom so far, so im not 'cheating' . but i may be 'cheating' myself out of potential gains..

I strongly disagree http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lat ... hinup.html

I strongly disagree with You, shruglife :D

Close grip pull-ups are to biceps what dips are to triceps. Your link did include the brachialis & brachioradialis as being recruited in chin-ups which of course they are. You can perform them Military style on the bars with palms facing each other or close grip with the palms facing towards you. The knees need to be slightly bent. Compare it to a barbell curl where the bicep is not fully recruited at the bottom or top of the lift, the pull up uses your body weight (remember you are using 100kg maybe or more for the big guys, can you curl 100kg??). In the chin you are working the bicep with more constantv tension from the bottom to the top of the lift. Granted it is a compound movement but the bicep is put under a lot more stress in a chin than some bicep isolation exercises. Try it & compare if you are not familar with chins for bicep work.

Agree :nod:

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shruglife Senior member

shruglife

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Your link did include the brachialis & brachioradialis as being recruited in chin-ups which of course they are.

Yes the Brachialis & Brachioradialis were listed as synergists in the movement which I never disputed but the target muscle is the Latissimus Dorsi...

Personally I do shoulder width Chinups as my first movement on Back day. While it places more emphasis on the Biceps than Pullups do I wouldn't call it a Bicep movement? I lean back and focus on bringing my elbows into my body rather than squeezing my arms into my body. I can really feel my Lats being activated and stretched. When I drop down they feel very pumped. Maybe performed in a more upright position, focusing on bringing your arms into your collar bone it could be thought of as a Bicep movement. Dips are a good analogy - the more upright you are the greater the emphasis placed on your Triceps as opposed to your Chest.

Back to my original statement - I still maintain that the Chinup is primarily a Back movement however it can be modified and performed in a way where greater emphasis is placed on the Biceps.

Agree :nod:

Your educated response is always appreciated :roll:

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musclenz Veteran member

musclenz

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Your link did include the brachialis & brachioradialis as being recruited in chin-ups which of course they are.

Yes the Brachialis & Brachioradialis were listed as synergists in the movement which I never disputed but the target muscle is the Latissimus Dorsi...

Personally I do shoulder width Chinups as my first movement on Back day. While it places more emphasis on the Biceps than Pullups do I wouldn't call it a Bicep movement? I lean back and focus on bringing my elbows into my body rather than squeezing my arms into my body. I can really feel my Lats being activated and stretched. When I drop down they feel very pumped. Maybe performed in a more upright position, focusing on bringing your arms into your collar bone it could be thought of as a Bicep movement. Dips are a good analogy - the more upright you are the greater the emphasis placed on your Triceps as opposed to your Chest.

Back to my original statement - I still maintain that the Chinup is primarily a Back movement however it can be modified and performed in a way where greater emphasis is placed on the Biceps.

Agree :nod:

Your educated response is always appreciated :roll:

Chins can be an effective back workout exercise, probably Pull-ups are more effective. The angle of the body in relation to the bar & the width of the hand grip determines what muscle group is targeted. the main point I was trying to emphasise was the amount of weight you can shift using the biceps vs using conventional isolation work. Roughly, you can move double the weight using chins over a greater ROM & under more constant tension. More weight moved = greater growth. So never underestimate the use of the Chin bar in your bicep work. Do them either at the beginning or the end or your routine & you will start to see some good results & its a change from doing standard curls & hammers.

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Mrbig Senior member

Mrbig

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Great,

I have just started doing chin ups this week, will see if that has any effect on my bi's which I struggle to get a decent work out on.

The one body part that I just can't seem to get a decent burn on!

if you want your biceps to burn light them on fire if you want them to grow lift some heavy weight so start doing weighted chins azwell you will see great gains

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johnnybravo007 New member

johnnybravo007

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I would agree that chin ups can work bis very well depending on how the exercise is done. On back day i work back. Not bis or forearms (atleast minimising the use as much as possible) I do this by using straps and only using 2 fingers to grip (stopping the strap from slipping) Pull ups, Lat pulls, T bars, all with straps at minimum grip. The number of times i have seen people heaving away at heavy weighted Lat pulls or pull ups with a huge pump in their arms and no back development is unbelievable. Of course you are going to use some arm recruitment however minimising it is the key.

However to answer your post.......i think bicep training (ROM included) is a matter of keeping them guessing. My latest change up has been bis following heavy back training.

* 6x6 EZ curls Heavier as you go with no full lock out at bottom or pause at top.

* 3x8-12 incline for stretch

* 3x8-12 Hammers across body

* Finish off with concentrations or cables for pump

My 2 cents :)

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recent addict Junior member

recent addict

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when your arm is fully extended, to bring your elbow to 90 degrees you actually use mostly forearm/supporting muscle, and its not till your arm is at this point that the bicep takes over the majority of the load.

This completely explains why my curls have been KNACKERING my forearms - I will try keeping some sets to 90 degrees and see if that helps. Nice observation, thanks for sharing

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nemesis Member

nemesis

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Jeez! I wish I could manage to either chin ups OR Pull ups! That is still my target excersize. :cry: let alone alternate the ROM?

Would an incline (feet on the floor way out in front) pull up be working the same muscles (albeit in a lighter fashion of course)? Still building up to the full deal :shifty:

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startinfromscratch Veteran member

startinfromscratch

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Jeez! I wish I could manage to either chin ups OR Pull ups! That is still my target excersize. :cry: let alone alternate the ROM?

Would an incline (feet on the floor way out in front) pull up be working the same muscles (albeit in a lighter fashion of course)? Still building up to the full deal :shifty:

bro, maybe youtube inverted rows? nothing to do with op, but could be useful for you??

8)

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shruglife Senior member

shruglife

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Chins can be an effective back workout exercise, probably Pull-ups are more effective. The angle of the body in relation to the bar & the width of the hand grip determines what muscle group is targeted. the main point I was trying to emphasise was the amount of weight you can shift using the biceps vs using conventional isolation work. Roughly, you can move double the weight using chins over a greater ROM & under more constant tension. More weight moved = greater growth. So never underestimate the use of the Chin bar in your bicep work. Do them either at the beginning or the end or your routine & you will start to see some good results & its a change from doing standard curls & hammers.

Hmmm you have actually given me something to think about... I may incorporate some heavy Drag Curls into my Bicep workout. Same concept but switches any emphasis on Lats to Traps.

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