BEST Supplement For JAcking Up T Levels

[Team JLA]

HEy guys just wondering if there any real good T boosting supplements ot there. Iv used Norateen Heavyweight 2 , Novadex and currently trying out NFs Strenolzin IV.

I had good results with norateen H2 , but medium to no effects with others compared to norateen :grin:

cheers

Guys

[Team JLA]

before you guys say anything about cycling them. Yes i did take 2months off before i attempted to use any of them

[thatwaslight]

nandrolone deconate :nod:

[thatwaslight]

but seriously plenty of sleep a solid diet with lots of healthy fats chuck in some zinc or eat heaps of cottage cheese, other supps tribulus ect are an absolute waste of time any gain is placebo effect imo your better spending another hour in the sack and spending your money on protein.

[Team JLA]

haha I Was Gona Say. IS THAT LEGAL NOW?? haha

yeah i have been doing that. starting to cut now so yeah wanted to stay anabolic while triming down.

[thatwaslight]

test boosting supps will not keep you in an anabolic state while cutting, try testosterone, ect :pfft:

[samoan_muscle]

test boosting supps will not keep you in an anabolic state while cutting, try testosterone, ect :pfft:

Says you?

[Ordy]

I'm using Isa-Test at test atm and since i started I've noticed a lot of strength and a bit of size growth. Though i am stacking it with a few other products.

[thatwaslight]

test boosting supps will not keep you in an anabolic state while cutting, try testosterone, ect :pfft:

Says you?

yes sm do u take tribulus while cutting to maintain ur lbm?

[monkeymuscle]

I'm no expert by any means, but Jonny Bowden has some interesting things to say about T-boosting foods on the second page here.

T-Nation: Let's talk man-food. Are there any specific foods for men that may help boost testosterone levels, or help prevent any male-oriented diseases?

Bowden: I haven't yet found any substantial evidence that any particular food raises testosterone levels. You can raise testosterone by being at a football game and having your team win. Hormones are actually very responsive to thoughts, moods, and feelings.

Now, as far as foods go, I think there are some foods that are estrogenic. Soy, for example. Soy isn't the worst food in the world, but it has estrogenic compounds. So does beer -- that's one of the reasons people get beer bellies. So those are things you don't want when trying to build muscle and optimize the hormonal environment.

So don't think of it as raising testosterone, but moving stuff out of the way so it can do its best work. Here's an analogy: Let's say you're a swimmer and you want to go as fast as possible. You could research those titanium Speedos that might give you a slight edge, but if you're wearing weights around your ankles, f*ck the Speedos; first drop the ankle weights!

I think a lot of people are in this position of walking around asking, "What's the fastest Speedo?" when they should be simply getting the weights off their ankles. With testosterone, what breaks down muscle? Cortisol, right? How about lowering your cortisol levels?

There's only so much we can do to naturally boost testosterone, but we can do a lot to get the weights off our ankles. And cortisol, as Dr. Michael Colgan once put it, is the Grinch of bodybuilding. It eats up muscle.

What bodybuilders rarely do is use some type of stress reduction technique or meditation or deep breathing. Those things, along with uninterrupted sleep in a dark room without the TV on, lower cortisol more than anything. I think that's more important than trying to boost testosterone.

So I'll second thatwasligt's recommendations. Rather than spend cash on supplements that probably won't work, try getting enough good-quality rest and maybe look into meditation too.

Vipassana or mindfulness meditation has been shown to have a range of great health and well-being benefits.

[nicksmith3]

Use a quality ZMA supplement at night. Steronezolin requires you to take 7 caps pre bed to get the required effect from the ZMA in it. - So a more effective way would be to simply buy ZMA on its own.

Balance your diet out with GOOD fats, poly/mono/omega's 3/6 and your hormone levels will be where they need to be to build muscle naturally.

Check my journal for an idea of how this looks!

[Team JLA]

Sweet ur right about the Steronezolin. i have been taking like 4 caps a day. doesnt do jack shit. Might Turn to gear maybe if i knew where to get soem from lol

:grin: :grin:

[Specter]

nandrolone deconate :nod:

lol..I knew one of us was going to post it up sooner or later :pfft:

[Optimass]

ZMA - hate to quote wiki but it saves time ...

Scientific studies

A 1999 study was undertaken on NCAA Football players during an 8 week spring training program. The control group was told to cease taking any nutritional supplements. Those who took the ZMA tablets showed greater increases in muscle strength. This study was funded by SNAC Systems Inc. (the patent holders) and one of the study's authors (Victor Conte) has equity in this company.

In 2004, a study funded by a research grant from Cytodyne (another supplement producing company) with 42 resistance trained males showed that ZMA supplementation had no significant effects on total and free testosterone, IGF-1, growth hormone, cortisol, the ratio of cortisol to testosterone, or muscle and liver enzymes in response to training. No significant effects were observed in changes in strength, upper or lower body muscle endurance, or anaerobic sprint capacity [3].

In another study done in 2006, a team of German scientists conducted a study on the effect of ZMA and testosterone levels in the body[4]. The result showed an increase in zinc secretions in urine, :grin: but no effect on the level of testosterone in the body.

Have used tribulus previously > not sure if it worked but I did find myself sporting a good babies arm regularly. Not sure if it was an elevated test level or perhaps it just doubles your brains ability to think dirty thoughts.

[nicksmith3]

ZMA - hate to quote wiki but it saves time ...

Scientific studies

A 1999 study was undertaken on NCAA Football players during an 8 week spring training program. The control group was told to cease taking any nutritional supplements. Those who took the ZMA tablets showed greater increases in muscle strength. This study was funded by SNAC Systems Inc. (the patent holders) and one of the study's authors (Victor Conte) has equity in this company.

In 2004, a study funded by a research grant from Cytodyne (another supplement producing company) with 42 resistance trained males showed that ZMA supplementation had no significant effects on total and free testosterone, IGF-1, growth hormone, cortisol, the ratio of cortisol to testosterone, or muscle and liver enzymes in response to training. No significant effects were observed in changes in strength, upper or lower body muscle endurance, or anaerobic sprint capacity [3].

In another study done in 2006, a team of German scientists conducted a study on the effect of ZMA and testosterone levels in the body[4]. The result showed an increase in zinc secretions in urine, :grin: but no effect on the level of testosterone in the body.

Have used tribulus previously > not sure if it worked but I did find myself sporting a good babies arm regularly. Not sure if it was an elevated test level or perhaps it just doubles your brains ability to think dirty thoughts.

A baby's arm! rofl!

Thanks for clearing that up, mate. - Some supplements have been around so long and almost every person feels it works, that i get sucked in and 'sometimes' forget to check my facts... :doh:

While we're on the subject of debunking supplement myths, using L-arginine to stimulate optimal growth hormone levels at night. As L-arginine or arginineketoglorate neither has been shown as a vasodilator unless introvenously infused.

One pub-med study has shown an increase in GH at night through supplementation of L-arginine. But that was when arginine was the single amino acid taken at the time, having a pre-bed shake would disturb that balance for sure!

You're thoughts buddy?

[Pseudonym]

Just on those two Wikipedia studies, both were conducted on subjects who had normal zinc levels to start with.

http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/ ... 2899a.html

and

http://www.jissn.com/content/1/2/12 (full study - it's a good read)

If you are zinc-deficient, then using ZMA to "top up" your zinc levels may help increase testosterone. Maybe.

[Optimass]

not totally sure ... :?

heres a link to freepatentsonline - a lot of theory around the product dev ... but it suggest a timed released formula is ideal for treatments. (Kind of like maintaining a creatine threshold which makes sense). They are claiming to supply an 8 hour release which would be better for the purpose of sleep.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2003/0039690.html

now the hard bit to determine is whether the supplementation is actually doing what you want -

Manufacturers claim AKG ...

A test tube study found that AKG induces a significant increase in growth of human fibroblasts – cells with similarities to muscle fiber cells. This effect was dose-dependent, meaning that a more pronounced growth effect was noted with increasing levels of AKG (but not with increasing levels of Arginine or alpha-ketoglutarate alone).

In one study, the anti-catabolic effects of AKG were investigated in 14 multiple trauma patients who were highly catabolic and hyper-metabolic. One group of subjects received 20 grams of AKG per day and showed a significant increase in protein turnover as well as a an increase in blood levels of insulin, growth hormone, and free amino acids (glutamine, proline and Arginine) compared to subjects not receiving AKG supplements.

First study is a test tube study that worked on cell that were similar to muscle tissue > ... not very convincing ... > and it was dose dependant which is consistent with maintaining it at a mod to high level.

Second study - was tested on 14 extremely sick individuals > ... not 100 odd health / hydrated athletes. So you have to ask, what happens when you are taking it when you are fully hydrated, adequately nourished and exercising - not to mention taking a raft of other supplements.

i guess this is why I am more conservative when it comes to supplementing - If your doc prescribes you a treatment (medication or antibotic etc) - there is normally a screening process to eliminate anything that could interfere with the medication they are offering.

Maybe I have been corrupted from the natural test sense in that having already experimented with prohormones and anabolics in the past - that in my opinion is the only way to raise your natural levels - otherwise they wouldn't be natural levels.

As a natural athlete I would be more concerned about maximise the bodies opportunity to take advantage of your natural production - sleeping - good sleeping :nod: ... in the old days GHB was still allow and was a sure fire way of ensuring you reached full sleep .

often the things that give the most benefit are functions your body performs naturally - better sleep in this case would be more important IMO.

I need to do some more reading on this one .... (is a good thing )

[Optimass]

If you are zinc-deficient, then using ZMA to "top up" your zinc levels may help increase testosterone. Maybe.

I wouldn't invest $30 - $70 per month on a supplement that may or may not give the result I'm looking for. just me ...

And how can anyone be sure they are actually deficient - day to day?

[Pseudonym]

Haha, touche! I wasn't suggesting ZMA would improve testosterone levels dramatically - only may (that word again!) bring below-par levels up to normal.

Pharmacists have a rough test for zinc deficiency. You swill a liquid around your mouth, and if it tastes nasty, you're zinc deficient. It's free and easy, but I'm not sure how accurate it is! A more reliable way to test zinc levels is with a blood test.

[Optimass]

non - related study of L-arginine but with expected outcome;

L-Arginine Supplementation in Peripheral Arterial Disease

No Benefit and Possible Harm

Andrew M. Wilson, MBBS, PhD; Randall Harada, MD; Nandini Nair, MD, PhD; Naras Balasubramanian, PhD; John P. Cooke, MD, PhD

From the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine (A.M.W., R.H., N.N., J.P.C.) and Department of Biostatistics (N.B.), Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, Calif.

Correspondence to John P. Cooke, MD, PhD, Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center, Falk Cardiovascular Research Institute, 300 Pasteur Dr, Stanford, CA 94305. E-mail john.cooke@stanford.edu

Received December 20, 2006; accepted May 3, 2007.

Background— L-Arginine is the precursor of endothelium-derived nitric oxide, an endogenous vasodilator. L-Arginine supplementation improves vascular reactivity and functional capacity in peripheral arterial disease (PAD) in small, short-term studies. We aimed to determine the effects of long-term administration of L-arginine on vascular reactivity and functional capacity in patients with PAD.

Methods and Results— The Nitric Oxide in Peripheral Arterial Insufficiency (NO-PAIN) study was a randomized clinical trial of oral L-arginine (3 g/d) versus placebo for 6 months in 133 subjects with intermittent claudication due to PAD in a single-center setting. The primary end point was the change at 6 months in the absolute claudication distance as assessed by the Skinner-Gardner treadmill protocol. L-Arginine supplementation significantly increased plasma L-arginine levels. However, measures of nitric oxide availability (including flow-mediated vasodilation, vascular compliance, plasma and urinary nitrogen oxides, and plasma citrulline formation) were reduced or not improved compared with placebo. Although absolute claudication distance improved in both L-arginine- and placebo-treated patients, the improvement in the L-arginine-treated group was significantly less than that in the placebo group (28.3% versus 11.5%; P=0.024).

Conclusions— In patients with PAD, long-term administration of L-arginine does not increase nitric oxide synthesis or improve vascular reactivity. Furthermore, the expected placebo effect observed in studies of functional capacity was attenuated in the L-arginine-treated group. As opposed to its short-term administration, long-term administration of L-arginine is not useful in patients with intermittent claudication and PAD.

Am I like the bodybuilding grinch or what?!!! :pfft:

[Agent]

Am I like the bodybuilding grinch or what?!!! :pfft:

Yes you are! but it's a good thing, the supplement industry is awash with snake-oil salesman selling the latest miracle elixir, it seems like the wild west out there these days.

Here's a couple of sites I've recently found interesting, one based on various studies related to athletic performance/bodybuilding -

http://www.ergo-log.com/index.html

and another one regarding news in the supplement industry, and also studies regarding effectiveness of supplements etc

http://www.supplementgenius.com

[Optimass]

great links - lots of good theory

http://www.ergo-log.com/bhb.html ... interesting one GHB implications as a test booster ...

[nicksmith3]

non - related study of L-arginine but with expected outcome;

L-Arginine Supplementation in Peripheral Arterial Disease

No Benefit and Possible Harm

Andrew M. Wilson, MBBS, PhD; Randall Harada, MD; Nandini Nair, MD, PhD; Naras Balasubramanian, PhD; John P. Cooke, MD, PhD

From the Division of Cardiovascular Medicine (A.M.W., R.H., N.N., J.P.C.) and Department of Biostatistics (N.B.), Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, Calif.

Correspondence to John P. Cooke, MD, PhD, Division of Cardiovascular Medicine, Stanford University Medical Center, Falk Cardiovascular Research Institute, 300 Pasteur Dr, Stanford, CA 94305. E-mail john.cooke@stanford.edu

Received December 20, 2006; accepted May 3, 2007.

Background— L-Arginine is the precursor of endothelium-derived nitric oxide, an endogenous vasodilator. L-Arginine supplementation improves vascular reactivity and functional capacity in peripheral arterial disease (PAD) in small, short-term studies. We aimed to determine the effects of long-term administration of L-arginine on vascular reactivity and functional capacity in patients with PAD.

Methods and Results— The Nitric Oxide in Peripheral Arterial Insufficiency (NO-PAIN) study was a randomized clinical trial of oral L-arginine (3 g/d) versus placebo for 6 months in 133 subjects with intermittent claudication due to PAD in a single-center setting. The primary end point was the change at 6 months in the absolute claudication distance as assessed by the Skinner-Gardner treadmill protocol. L-Arginine supplementation significantly increased plasma L-arginine levels. However, measures of nitric oxide availability (including flow-mediated vasodilation, vascular compliance, plasma and urinary nitrogen oxides, and plasma citrulline formation) were reduced or not improved compared with placebo. Although absolute claudication distance improved in both L-arginine- and placebo-treated patients, the improvement in the L-arginine-treated group was significantly less than that in the placebo group (28.3% versus 11.5%; P=0.024).

Conclusions— In patients with PAD, long-term administration of L-arginine does not increase nitric oxide synthesis or improve vascular reactivity. Furthermore, the expected placebo effect observed in studies of functional capacity was attenuated in the L-arginine-treated group. As opposed to its short-term administration, long-term administration of L-arginine is not useful in patients with intermittent claudication and PAD.

Am I like the bodybuilding grinch or what?!!! :pfft:

Haha, well done bro!

If you google 'growth hormone levels, pubmed, arginine' you get the study that reveals, taking arginine pre-bed on its own increasing GH levels to optimal in the body.

As for what you were saying with increasing 'test levels', from what seems to be another myth, a lot of bodybuilders have lower than normal test levels due to their workout volume/intensity apparently...

So optimising natural levels through what you state GOOD sleep is exactly what i agree with. Optimising your sleep through supplementation with ZMA/arginine may however benefit the trainee... ?

[Team JLA]

Hey guys its good to know that not all of the guys who post on here are just brawn with no brain. i myself still studying at university so i have access to online published journals. I remember looking in depth into L- arginine supplementation and yes i concluded with similar results i.e no proven effect on skin stretching pumps .

With ZMA supplemention, i think from previous reading i had also concluded that its 50/50.

man That Nandrolone or maybe some Sustanol sounds real tempting right now :grin:

Might hit up some guys about it lol Switching to the Dark side :twisted:

[musclenz]

Just an interesting article on why Zinc is so important for male health & for Bodybuilders. Generally you can get a reasonable amount by eating the foods listed, which pretty well suit our nutritional requirements (maybe not the cheese & nuts) but it is worth looking at zinc supplementation if you are a natty builder or using test boosters.

"Zinc is one of the most important minerals as far as male sexual function and potency is concerned. It is one of the main requirements for the production of testosterone. Moreover, it also helps in the production of healthy sperm and improves sperm count.

Low levels of zinc in your body leads to lower sperm count and lower sex drive or, worst, the absence of it. Zinc is important to keep your prostate healthy, to aid in regulating your prostatic fluids, and to aid in the production of semen. Some researches also suggest that Zinc can aid in avoiding prostate cancer.

Generally, zinc is important for a healthy immune system, and is also of use in fighting skin problems such as acne, boils and sore throats. It is further needed for cell division, and is needed by the tissue of the hair, nails and skin to be in top form. Zinc is further used in the growth and maintenance of muscles. Children, for normal growth and sexual development, also require zinc. Zinc also has the tendency to control the oil glands, and is also required for the synthesis of protein and collagen – which is great for wound healing and a healthy skin.

A deficiency of this mineral will result in an under-performing immune system, open to infections, allergies, night blindness, loss of smell, falling hair, white spots under finger nails, skin problems, and sleep disturbances. It can also lead to loss of appetite and diarrhea. Too much on the other hand can have adverse effects. “Zinc toxicity”, as it is called, can lead to nasty side effects such as nausea, vomiting, electrolyte imbalances, diarrhea, dehydration, and can harm your immune system. It can also suppress one’s absorption of iron, copper, and other mineral trace elements which our body needs to develop.

There is a shortage of zinc in many people’s diet, since zinc is destroyed in the milling process and is also lost in cooking. Additionally, today’s lifestyle promotes a fast depletion of zinc levels in the body. Stress, caffeine, smoking, and alcohol consumption increase the need for zinc. It is therefore important to know which foods are rich in zinc. Additionally, regular intake of 15 to 25 mg of zinc is highly advisable (more than this can lead to more harm than good).

Food rich in zinc:

» Oysters (yes, oysters really are an aphrodisiac!)

» Other seafood especially shellfishes

» Chicken

» Beef

» Lamb

» Eggs

» Brown rice

» Oatmeal

» Pecans

» Cashews

» Peanut butter

» Cheddar cheese

» Milk

» Green leafy vegetables"

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