Cyp + Winny cycle

[AgentOrange]

Im looking at embarking on a cycle to get me nice and lean and maybe even adding some 'lean mass'. Am thinking of running either test e or cyp with winstrol. Diet will be very clean with plenty of oats/rice/kumara/chicken fish etc etc with some good fats. Will knock out carbs after 3pm and be shooting for about 300 + grams of protein a day. and a total of about 2500- 2600 cals a day

Training will be intense 4 days a week lifting and 2 boxing sessions a week with 10 mins HIIT on the end of weight sessions. For the record im about 84kg now 5'7 and prob round 17% bf.

How do you guys think this looks the idea behind the winny is to harden me up and keep bloat down what do you guys reccomend for winny dosage? and how do you think my results will be? shooting for 12 weeks at 500mg and bringing the winny in in the last 5 weeks.

And does anyone have an opinions on winstrol and hairloss?

cheers in advance

[shruglife]

I lol'd hard at your sig

[Bain]

From what I can gather you have only the win and cyp. I would think of splitting the two, I've had a shot at running them together and the results was not that much different than just running a long acting ester.

To capitalize on what you have: I would shoot the cyp for 8 weeks (will help preserve muscle with all that training) and then add the win for 4 weeks after, might help save some muscle on the comedown from the cyp.

25-50mg/day on the win. If you can add some short ester like test prop with your win to give it a bit more kick - good. Hairloss -> overated.

This is a light cycle, but if your sensitive add some PCT.

But yes - experimenting is half the fun.

:nod:

[AgentOrange]

From what I can gather you have only the win and cyp. I would think of splitting the two, I've had a shot at running them together and the results was not that much different than just running a long acting ester.

To capitalize on what you have: I would shoot the cyp for 8 weeks (will help preserve muscle with all that training) and then add the win for 4 weeks after, might help save some muscle on the comedown from the cyp.

25-50mg/day on the win. If you can add some short ester like test prop with your win to give it a bit more kick - good. Hairloss -> overated.

This is a light cycle, but if your sensitive add some PCT.

So only ping the cyp for 8 weeks? or 12 weeks with the winny in the last four?

Do you guys think the winny will keep the test bloat minimal? And with diet nailed and the training as above what kind of results might i expect froma cycle like this.

=P~

[NZPT]

i did a similar cycle have a read

http://www.nzbodybuilding.co.nz/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4263

Results were good, ran sust and stan for 8 weeks then bridged, my weight went up consistanly and i stayed dry and hard BUT my diet was really good and was continuing morning cardio.

My diet is in there.

Personally i would run the cyp for 12weeks with the winny for the last 6 weeks (id prob run all the way through but up to you), drop your cals again once winny added and you should see a reduction in fat and harden up if your BF is lowish. Then PCT or tapper or bridge whatever your into.

is the winny oral or inject? run at 50mg per day ( maybe want to do EOD if injecting cause that sh*t hurts!)

Hair loss, wouldn't worry bro...unless your receding pretty hard now itl just speed it up if you have it already. if not you should be sweet.

that's my thoughts BAINs idea would also work well, upto you in the end!

keep us posted

[Bain]

From what I can gather you have only the win and cyp. I would think of splitting the two, I've had a shot at running them together and the results was not that much different than just running a long acting ester.

To capitalize on what you have: I would shoot the cyp for 8 weeks (will help preserve muscle with all that training) and then add the win for 4 weeks after, might help save some muscle on the comedown from the cyp.

25-50mg/day on the win. If you can add some short ester like test prop with your win to give it a bit more kick - good. Hairloss -> overated.

This is a light cycle, but if your sensitive add some PCT.

So only ping the cyp for 8 weeks? or 12 weeks with the winny in the last four?

Do you guys think the winny will keep the test bloat minimal? And with diet nailed and the training as above what kind of results might i expect froma cycle like this.

=P~

Cyp for 8 weeks and then after that the win for 4 weeks. Its up to you, if you are planning on bridging NZPTs idea would do well and you might combine the two, but if you want to take a break of the gear post cycle, I would go with my proposal.

Yes and as the man said win inj. is water based and hurts esp. on ed injection - so if you can go for tabs.

Results can be anyones guess and is more dependant on your diet than the gear; has alot to do with your past cycles and how long you have been clean enc. Same with your cycle - I have given info on the basis that your goal would be to try and maintain as much as possible PC. :nod:

Ps. A good idea on Cyp is to frontload - take double the normal dose in the first week to get your blood test levels up.

[AgentOrange]

I cnt be bothered going off and on i think i'll bridge next time round with 200mg per week and just be done with it :pfft:

Hey nzpt why would you run winny through out cycle? SM also said he would do the same.

[NZPT]

Hey nzpt why would you run winny through out cycle? SM also said he would do the same.

More AAS means less chance of catabolism while dieting and more chance of increasing lean mass.

It'l keep any bloating down and keep you looking hard throughout also.

But that's if its an injectable. Oral is your risk if you run for that long, i personally think its over hyped the possible liver damage as long as your eating clean, drinking plenty of water and staying away from other liver toxic products (alcohol, drugs) then one cycle of orals should be safe provided you have an off period of orals.

that is my view and outlook based on what Ive read and personal experience. others may disagree.

NZPT

[samoan_muscle]

Great read:

------------------------------------------------------------

How winny and proviron will make your cycle kick ass.

Really only a very small amount of Testosterone exists as “free” testosterone. Free test is testosterone that capable of binding to the Androgen Receptor, which is where all the rest of the magic happens, and allows for the following benefits:

-Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)

-Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

-Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasm ratio)

-Enhanced protein synthesis

-New myofibril formation

Testosterone binds at around 45% to what is known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), and about another 53% binds to proteins (albumin). The rest exists in a “free” state (about 2% if you did your math). Different variations of steroids also differ in the way in which they bind to proteins.

If one could unbind testosterone from SHBG by even a small percentage, it could make a big difference in the way that testosterone or other AAS exert their anabolic effects. Studies show that when testosterone is unbound from SHBG the “free” test does in fact exert greater effects than total T. As the following studies support:

-

Demisch K and Nickelsen T. Distribution of testosterone in plasma proteins during replacement therapy with testosterone enanthate in patients suffering from hypogonadism Andrologia 1983; 15 Spec No: 536-41.

Gandar R. Interpretation of the blood level of a steroid Rev Fr Gynecol Obstet 1985 Aug-Sep; 80(8-9):635-40.

Legrand E., et al. Osteoporosis in men: a potential role for the sex hormone binding globulin Bone 2001 Jul; 29(1):90-5.

Longcope C., et al. Diet and sex hormone-binding globulin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jan; 85(1):293-296.

Valero-Politi J and Fuentes-Arderiu X. Within- and between-subject biological variations of follitropin, lutropin, testosterone, and sex-hormone-binding globulin in men. Clin Chem 1993 Aug; 39(:1723-1725.

Proviron (1-Methyl Dihydrotestosterone) has been shown to bind with SHBG much more readily than test.

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.

Saartok T, Dahlberg E, Gustafsson JA.

It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H] methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4, 9, 11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone (NorT; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3, 2-c] pyrazol-17 beta-ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1, 4-androstadien-3-one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)

Skalba P, Korfanty A, Mroczka W, Wojtowicz M. Related Articles

[Changes of SHBG concentrations in postmenopausal women]

Ginekol Pol. 2001 Dec;72(12A):1388-92. Polish.

Variations of sex hormone-binding globulin in thyroid dysfunction.

Brenta G, Schnitman M, Gurfinkiel M, Damilano S, Pierini A, Sinay I, Pisarev MA.

Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, French Hospital, Buenos Aires, Argentina. brenta@cnea.gov.ar

With the aim of understanding the variations of the levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in thyroid dysfunction, we studied the influence of factors that also modify SHBG, such as menopausal status, age, and body mass index (BMI) in women with hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism, both overt and subclinical. Statistical analysis was performed by means of analysis of variance (ANOVA), stepwise multiple regression, and partial correlation. The ANOVA showed a significant statistical difference among the means of SHBG of all groups (p<0.01). The difference was due to the group that included hyperthyroid women. Multiple regression analysis showed that the main factors influencing SHBG were BMI and age, except for the hyperthyroid group, where the most important independent variables were triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Partial correlation controlling the effect of BMI and age showed no association between SHBG and the other variables in all groups except for the subclinical hyperthyroid and hyperthyroid, where we found a significant association between SHBG and T4 and T3. The premenopausal or postmenopausal status did not modify SHBG levels. When the patients are taken as a whole, BMI, age, T4, and T3 all have an association with SHBG levels according to the multiple regression analysis.

Determinants of sex hormone-binding globulin blood concentrations in premenopausal and postmenopausal women with different estrogen status. Virgilio-Menopause-Health Group.

Pasquali R, Vicennati V, Bertazzo D, Casimirri F, Pascal G, Tortelli O, Labate AM.

Department of Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, University of Bologna, Italy

Just a quote: 2) SHBG values are correlated positively with estradiol and negatively with insulin and testosterone concentrations, but the predictive value of these variabiles on SHBG appears to be different in premenopause and postmenopause;

Here is a fun little fact: the level of SHBG can also be influenced by other factors. There is a direct relationship between the level of estrogen and thyroid hormones and the level of SHBG. Estrogen goes up, SHBG goes up. Estrogen goes down SHBG goes down. Same for Thyroid hormones triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Also, there is a relationship with diet and insulin, but that is something I will save for later. Higher androgen levels due to AS administration has been shown to considerably lower levels of SHBG as well. The AS Winstrol (stanozolol) was shown in a 1989 study to lower levels of SHBG by 50% after oral administration.

Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

Here’s the thing: This was after oral administration, so I am not sure that I can extrapolate the data to injectable as well. SHBG is made in the liver so even an injectable winny would have to be processed there, albeit slower, due to the slower release of injectable winny and it’s direct release into the bloodstream. That could possibly make it a little less effective in this regard.

In a nutshell: Proviron and Winny could provide the mechanisms to increase the value of other AS. Proviron would work because by binding to SHBG, it leaves hormone in a free state to bind to the AR. Proviron is a terrible Anabolic, but its affinity for SHBG would essentially “displace”other steroids from binding to SHBG. Winstrol would work to reduce the overall amount of SHBG, thereby having the effect of freeing up hormone to bind to the AR. What a stack!

_________________

[NZPT]

^^^^

and what SM said haha :grin:

[musclenz]

Yeah thats why Stanz & Proviron are great in a stack but less effective as stand alone drugs. They both attach or workwith SHBG enabling more FT to be released. I believe Stanozolol Injection is about 50% more effective than Winny Tabs @ 100mg EOD it can be great for strength & hardening or maturing muscle in particular in a caloie deficit diet. However, its not that effective at fat burning unless your BF% is around 10% or lower.

[frocko]

Yeah thats why Stanz & Proviron are great in a stack but less effective as stand alone drugs. They both attach or workwith SHBG enabling more FT to be released. I believe Stanozolol Injection is about 50% more effective than Winny Tabs @ 100mg EOD it can be great for strength & hardening or maturing muscle in particular in a caloie deficit diet. However, its not that effective at fat burning unless your BF% is around 10% or lower.

Agree with that, you wont see shit from winnie unless you have a low BF.

[Viking Power]

Great read:

------------------------------------------------------------

this is great but i almost need to be a scientist to understand it

How winny and proviron will make your cycle kick ass.

Really only a very small amount of Testosterone exists as “free” testosterone. Free test is testosterone that capable of binding to the Androgen Receptor, which is where all the rest of the magic happens, and allows for the following benefits:

-Enhanced growth factor activity (e.g. GH, IGF-1, etc.)

-Enhanced activation of myogenic stem cells (i.e. satellite cells)

-Enhanced myonuclear number (to maintain nuclear to cytoplasm ratio)

-Enhanced protein synthesis

-New myofibril formation

Testosterone binds at around 45% to what is known as Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), and about another 53% binds to proteins (albumin). The rest exists in a “free” state (about 2% if you did your math). Different variations of steroids also differ in the way in which they bind to proteins.

If one could unbind testosterone from SHBG by even a small percentage, it could make a big difference in the way that testosterone or other AAS exert their anabolic effects. Studies show that when testosterone is unbound from SHBG the “free” test does in fact exert greater effects than total T. As the following studies support:

-

Demisch K and Nickelsen T. Distribution of testosterone in plasma proteins during replacement therapy with testosterone enanthate in patients suffering from hypogonadism Andrologia 1983; 15 Spec No: 536-41.

Gandar R. Interpretation of the blood level of a steroid Rev Fr Gynecol Obstet 1985 Aug-Sep; 80(8-9):635-40.

Legrand E., et al. Osteoporosis in men: a potential role for the sex hormone binding globulin Bone 2001 Jul; 29(1):90-5.

Longcope C., et al. Diet and sex hormone-binding globulin. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jan; 85(1):293-296.

Valero-Politi J and Fuentes-Arderiu X. Within- and between-subject biological variations of follitropin, lutropin, testosterone, and sex-hormone-binding globulin in men. Clin Chem 1993 Aug; 39(:1723-1725.

Proviron (1-Methyl Dihydrotestosterone) has been shown to bind with SHBG much more readily than test.

Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin.

Saartok T, Dahlberg E, Gustafsson JA.

It is unclear whether anabolic steroids act on skeletal muscle via the androgen receptor (AR) in this tissue, or whether there is a separate anabolic receptor. When several anabolic steroids were tested as competitors for the binding of [3H] methyltrienolone (MT; 17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-4, 9, 11-estratrien-3-one) to the AR in rat and rabbit skeletal muscle and rat prostate, respectively, MT itself was the most efficient competitor. 1 alpha-Methyl-5 alpha-dihydrotestosterone (1 alpha-methyl-DHT; mesterolone) bound most avidly to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) [relative binding affinity (RBA) about 4 times that of DHT]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids bound strongly to the AR in skeletal muscle and prostate [RBAs relative to that of MT: MT greater than 19-nortestosterone (NorT; nandrolone) greater than methenolone (17 beta-hydroxy-1-methyl-5 alpha-androst-1-en-3-one) greater than testosterone (T) greater than 1 alpha-methyl-DHT]. In other cases, AR binding was weak (RBA values less than 0.05): stanozolol (17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha- androstano [3, 2-c] pyrazol-17 beta-ol), methanedienone (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-1, 4-androstadien-3-one), and fluoxymesterolone (9 alpha-fluoro-11 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-T). Other compounds had RBAs too low to be determined (e.g. oxymetholone (17 beta-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstan-3-one) and ethylestrenol (17 alpha-ethyl-4- estren -17 beta-ol). The competition pattern was similar in muscle and prostate, except for a higher RBA of DHT in the prostate. The low RBA of DHT in muscle was probably due to the previously reported rapid reduction of its 3-keto function to metabolites, which did not bind to the AR [5 alpha-androstane-3 alpha, 17 beta-diol and its 3 beta-isomer (3 alpha- and 3 beta-adiol, respectively)]. Some anabolic-androgenic steroids (only a few synthetic) bound to SHBG (1 alpha-methyl-DHT much greater than DHT greater than T greater than 3 beta-adiol greater than 3 alpha-adiol = 17 alpha-methyl-T greater than methenolone greater than methanedienone greater than stanozolol). The ratio of the RBA in rat muscle to that in the prostate (an estimate of the myotrophic potency of the compounds) was close to unity, varying only between about 0.4 and 1.7 in most cases.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 400 WORDS)

Skalba P, Korfanty A, Mroczka W, Wojtowicz M. Related Articles

[Changes of SHBG concentrations in postmenopausal women]

Ginekol Pol. 2001 Dec;72(12A):1388-92. Polish.

Variations of sex hormone-binding globulin in thyroid dysfunction.

Brenta G, Schnitman M, Gurfinkiel M, Damilano S, Pierini A, Sinay I, Pisarev MA.

Department of Endocrinology and Metabolism, French Hospital, Buenos Aires, Argentina. brenta@cnea.gov.ar

With the aim of understanding the variations of the levels of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) in thyroid dysfunction, we studied the influence of factors that also modify SHBG, such as menopausal status, age, and body mass index (BMI) in women with hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism, both overt and subclinical. Statistical analysis was performed by means of analysis of variance (ANOVA), stepwise multiple regression, and partial correlation. The ANOVA showed a significant statistical difference among the means of SHBG of all groups (p<0.01). The difference was due to the group that included hyperthyroid women. Multiple regression analysis showed that the main factors influencing SHBG were BMI and age, except for the hyperthyroid group, where the most important independent variables were triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Partial correlation controlling the effect of BMI and age showed no association between SHBG and the other variables in all groups except for the subclinical hyperthyroid and hyperthyroid, where we found a significant association between SHBG and T4 and T3. The premenopausal or postmenopausal status did not modify SHBG levels. When the patients are taken as a whole, BMI, age, T4, and T3 all have an association with SHBG levels according to the multiple regression analysis.

Determinants of sex hormone-binding globulin blood concentrations in premenopausal and postmenopausal women with different estrogen status. Virgilio-Menopause-Health Group.

Pasquali R, Vicennati V, Bertazzo D, Casimirri F, Pascal G, Tortelli O, Labate AM.

Department of Internal Medicine and Gastroenterology, University of Bologna, Italy

Just a quote: 2) SHBG values are correlated positively with estradiol and negatively with insulin and testosterone concentrations, but the predictive value of these variabiles on SHBG appears to be different in premenopause and postmenopause;

Here is a fun little fact: the level of SHBG can also be influenced by other factors. There is a direct relationship between the level of estrogen and thyroid hormones and the level of SHBG. Estrogen goes up, SHBG goes up. Estrogen goes down SHBG goes down. Same for Thyroid hormones triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4). Also, there is a relationship with diet and insulin, but that is something I will save for later. Higher androgen levels due to AS administration has been shown to considerably lower levels of SHBG as well. The AS Winstrol (stanozolol) was shown in a 1989 study to lower levels of SHBG by 50% after oral administration.

Sex hormone-binding globulin response to the anabolic steroid stanozolol: evidence for its suitability as a biological androgen sensitivity test.

Sinnecker G, Kohler S.

Department of Pediatrics, University of Hamburg, West Germany.

Both the androgen-induced decline in serum sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) levels during puberty and the anabolic effect of exogenous testosterone are absent in patients with androgen insensitivity (testicular feminization). To determine whether the androgen-induced decline in serum SHBG could be used as a test of androgen sensitivity, we studied the effect of the anabolic-androgenic steroid stanozolol (17 beta-hydroxy-17 alpha-methyl-5 alpha-androstano-[3,2-c]pyrazol) on serum SHBG in 25 control subjects, 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity, and 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity. Stanozolol was administered orally for 3 days (0.2 mg/kg.day); blood samples were taken before and 5, 6, 7, and 8 days after the beginning of the test for measurements of serum SHBG. The lowest value (i.e. the peak response) in each subject was used as the measure of the response to stanozolol. In the control subjects the mean nadir serum SHBG level was 51.6 +/- 5.9% (+/- SD) of the initial value (P less than 0.001). In the 4 patients with partial androgen insensitivity the nadir serum SHBG ranged from 73-89%, and in the 3 patients with complete androgen insensitivity it ranged from 93-97% of the initial value. Thus, the decrease in serum SHBG after short term administration of stanozolol reflects androgen responsiveness and, thus, may be used to differentiate patients with androgen insensitivity syndromes from those with other causes of male pseudohermaphroditism.

Here’s the thing: This was after oral administration, so I am not sure that I can extrapolate the data to injectable as well. SHBG is made in the liver so even an injectable winny would have to be processed there, albeit slower, due to the slower release of injectable winny and it’s direct release into the bloodstream. That could possibly make it a little less effective in this regard.

In a nutshell: Proviron and Winny could provide the mechanisms to increase the value of other AS. Proviron would work because by binding to SHBG, it leaves hormone in a free state to bind to the AR. Proviron is a terrible Anabolic, but its affinity for SHBG would essentially “displace”other steroids from binding to SHBG. Winstrol would work to reduce the overall amount of SHBG, thereby having the effect of freeing up hormone to bind to the AR. What a stack!

_________________

[NZPT]

whats up with quoting and not saying anything? ^^

[AgentOrange]

what about kick starting with dbol and switching to winny later in cycle? To toxic? nzpt?

[auck_builder]

dude i dont think u will find any tabs available atm aye

[Luigi]

dude i dont think u will find any tabs available atm aye

??

[auck_builder]

since the olympics everyone knows customs has craked down on shit coming in

[samoan_muscle]

LMAO - Everybody listen to the builder of Auckland. He is in the "know"....

Hahahahahahaha...on a more serious note AB - can you stop talking "crap".

[auck_builder]

oh na i dont pretend to be in the "know" just here what is said on the news and that and what i read on this site lol

sorry big samoa

[samoan_muscle]

So did they say on the news that orals are in short supply at the moment???

LMAO.

[auck_builder]

na just about customs stepping up there security and techniques for catching stuff coming in, something to do with the olympics at the time

thanks for correcting me anyways your very helpful

cheers auckland builder i build houses call me for cheap builds and renovations 0800 838383

[samoan_muscle]

Lol...um how long ago was the olympics???

Customs aint what it used to be...

Their manpower has decreased somewhat - you can figure the rest out for yourself.

[auck_builder]

oh true. - no wonder that dude on illegal nz got that package thru