Vote: New Natural Bodybuilding Section

[Johnboy007]

As another "nattie" bodybuilder (so far) I completely understand where you're coming from, John. There are times I feel like I'm the only person who isn't using gear! But the reality is that steroid-users ARE still the minority. We did a poll on it the year before last, and from memory something like 40% used steroids - and that was a poll conducted in the Steroid forum, so would have been hugely skewed in their favour anyway.

As I said in the other topic, the last thing I want to do is create the impression that natural bodybuilders are an endangered species. So I voted against a dedicated "natural" section.

Fair call, to date it looks like the consensus is for much the same.

If it is such a minority why is the steroid section as popular as it is, all one has to do is look at the number of topics and posts.

I will continue to live in my delusional world which maintains that at a competitive level (not recreational) drug use is more prevalent in bodybuilding than people want to believe, and us "naturals" are indeed the minority.

Let it be know it will not stop me form reading and contributing (in my own special way) to these forums.

Ha ha ha ha ha........ ha :pfft: (Attempt at evil laugh)

[Specter]

As another "nattie" bodybuilder (so far) I completely understand where you're coming from, John. There are times I feel like I'm the only person who isn't using gear! But the reality is that steroid-users ARE still the minority. We did a poll on it the year before last, and from memory something like 40% used steroids - and that was a poll conducted in the Steroid forum, so would have been hugely skewed in their favour anyway.

As I said in the other topic, the last thing I want to do is create the impression that natural bodybuilders are an endangered species. So I voted against a dedicated "natural" section.

Fair call, to date it looks like the consensus is for much the same.

If it is such a minority why is the steroid section as popular as it is, all one has to do is look at the number of topics and posts.

I will continue to live in my delusional world which maintains that at a competitive level (not recreational) drug use is more prevalent in bodybuilding than people want to believe, and us "naturals" are indeed the minority.

Let it be know it will not stop me form reading and contributing (in my own special way) to these forums.

Ha ha ha ha ha........ ha :pfft: (Attempt at evil laugh)

Just coming back to why the steroid section is so popular..its not really..a lot of the posts in there are by the same peeps...so really its a minority of a few who have used posting their thoughts and experiences..

[Pseudonym]

Good to hear, Johnboy. That is, it's good to hear you'll still be contributing, not to hear your evil laugh. That was pathetic - you didn't even use the appropriate smiley. For future reference, here's how it's done:

Mwahahaha! :twisted:

See? Much more evil.

[nicksmith3]

edit*

[nicksmith3]

There are many advantages 'users' have over natural bodybuilders, the list goes on. For example the key for a natural bodybuilder with average genetics to be successful in bodybuilding competition is to spend years training and dieting correctly so that they can gain enough muscle mass to shred down once a bodybuilding competition comes about. Care must be taken also to gain the muscle methodically while staying lean. Why?

Because average natural bodybuilders cannot afford to get fat and then trim down. The reason for this is because in the process of trimming down from a large body fat percentage a lot of muscle gets sacrificed (since naturals lose muscle much easier than an assisted athlete). So it is imperative that a natural athlete always stays lean (never more than 10% body fat). Assisted athletes can bulk up and trim down successfully (since the drugs help to prevent the muscle loss), but in my opinion, even they would benefit from staying leaner at all times as even with drugs some muscle gets sacrificed anyways in the process of losing 60-70 lbs of fat as some bodybuilders do.

Not only can we help each other stay lean in the offseason, we can help each other prepare for shows without loosing their precious hard earned muscle.

We all know users are anabolic even during low intensity cardio sessions, higher levels of testosterone offer superior muscular development/sparing benefits which is why people choose to use them. Lets see a 100% natural bodybuilder add 30lbs of LBM in 3-4 months. DAVE GOODIN, who's been a natural bodbuilder his entire life has succeeded in adding 30lbs of muscle in just over 30 years. He is now 50 and continues to make slow and steady progress. - The take home from this is this, bodybuilding is a very personal sport, you cannot just throw it all into one category when it quite obviously is NOT one category.

Thankyou for you guys who have voted YES, hopefully this will sway the mods.

Cheers.

[Gasp]

Far better to retain it as NZBB with separate area for steroids than

NZBB with a separate section for Naturals.

I think that would sent out the wrong message about NZBB.

[laurasaur]

=P~ =P~ =P~ ^^

also, nothing kills forums more than having too many subforums!!

[nicksmith3]

Far better to retain it as NZBB with separate area for steroids than

NZBB with a separate section for Naturals.

I think that would sent out the wrong message about NZBB.

Far better for who? - For you?

We are not talking about politics here, we are talking about the obvious need for a Natural Section.

If NZBB was worried about sending out wrong messages they would have considered that long ago when they added the STEROID section!

[nzmusclemonster]

Far better for who? - For you?

We are not talking about politics here, we are talking about the obvious need for a Natural Section.

If NZBB was worried about sending out wrong messages they would have considered that long ago when they added the STEROID section!

Agreed....... and who are these imaginary people everyone keeps talking about that we are sending a bad message to??

Is NZBB trying to cater to its members or to hypothetical people.....

[Johnboy007]

It will be up to NZBB to decide if 28% of its user population justifies or warrants enough reason to add a new section, in regards to comments about the number of sections perhaps a simple evaluation of those currently in place and the value they provide will fix that. Fitness to be is a prime contender for replacement, fitness is a direct result of training and the discipline itself. Why is there a separate section for females?

I would be more inclined to say if the demand requires it why not add one, and perhaps hindsight it shouldn't have been a yes or no vote.... oh well what will be will be.

[laurasaur]

It will be up to NZBB to decide if 28% of its user population justifies or warrants enough reason to add a new section, in regards to comments about the number of sections perhaps a simple evaluation of those currently in place and the value they provide will fix that. Fitness to be is a prime contender for replacement, fitness is a direct result of training and the discipline itself. Why is there a separate section for females?

I would be more inclined to say if the demand requires it why not add one, and perhaps hindsight it shouldn't have been a yes or no vote.... oh well what will be will be.

Because girls are more spechal

[Specter]

It will be up to NZBB to decide if 28% of its user population justifies or warrants enough reason to add a new section, in regards to comments about the number of sections perhaps a simple evaluation of those currently in place and the value they provide will fix that. Fitness to be is a prime contender for replacement, fitness is a direct result of training and the discipline itself. Why is there a separate section for females?

I would be more inclined to say if the demand requires it why not add one, and perhaps hindsight it shouldn't have been a yes or no vote.... oh well what will be will be.

Dude...(Why is their a seperate section for females?)..she wolves...Bites all over ass.....holes.....shitting sideways...good luck. :shock: :pfft:

[Gasp]

Far better to retain it as NZBB with separate area for steroids than

NZBB with a separate section for Naturals.

I think that would sent out the wrong message about NZBB.

Far better for who? - For you?

We are not talking about politics here, we are talking about the obvious need for a Natural Section.

If NZBB was worried about sending out wrong messages they would have considered that long ago when they added the STEROID section!

To be honest if was genuinely informative and promoted Natural training and competing then I could go with it.

I`ve been natural now for 50 years and take out of this site any training and dietry tips which suit my needs. However I don`t begrudge or ignore those aren`t Natural, or discount their advice as irrelavent but at the same time I have a healthier respect for those who are Natural.

What subjects would you envisage being covered in the Natural section.

[Luigi]

i have changed my vote to yes i encourage others to do the same, why not keep everyone happy, i look forward to learning from those naturals more experienced than me and giving advice to the naturals who arnt.

[nicksmith3]

To be honest if was genuinely informative and promoted Natural training and competing then I could go with it.

I`ve been natural now for 50 years and take out of this site any training and dietry tips which suit my needs. However I don`t begrudge or ignore those aren`t Natural, or discount their advice as irrelavent but at the same time I have a healthier respect for those who are Natural.

What subjects would you envisage being covered in the Natural section.

Great!

As for subjects that we could cover, they really would range depending on the level of experience of the person asking the questions.

For example, we could talk nutrition aspects on various bodytypes and how that affects the amount of 'lean muscle' a person is able to gain without adding too much fat. Ie, insulin control with using the right types of foods.

We could talk about the benefits of bulk/cut cycling. How by switching from one phase to the other in a periodised manner you can get the benefits of elevated metabolic rates while still retaining LBM for a short while before going back to adding additional calories. - Giving you a greater lean bodymass gain than what you would get having just bulked for say 8 months as opposed to say a 12 week bulk/ 4 week cut, depending on your metabolism and individual bodytype.

And thats just the start of it, we haven't even looked into pre-contest dieting. Getting down to a low low bodyfat while still trying to retain all of your hard earned muscle.

Interested to know more?

i have changed my vote to yes i encourage others to do the same, why not keep everyone happy, i look forward to learning from those naturals more experienced than me and giving advice to the naturals who arnt.

It's appreciated, cheers.

[Darwinstef]

....imperative that a natural athlete always stays lean (never more than 10% body fat).....

Well thats me screwed then :pfft: The difference in my strength when I drop below 10% is huge....I like a bit of padding during serious lifting.

Edit: I voted "don't care", if you want another forum it doesn't worry me but I don't see it containing much that isn't already discussed elsewhere.

[shruglife]

....imperative that a natural athlete always stays lean (never more than 10% body fat).....

Well thats me screwed then :pfft: The difference in my strength when I drop below 10% is huge....I like a bit of padding during serious lifting.

Edit: I voted "don't care", if you want another forum it doesn't worry me but I don't see it containing much that isn't already discussed elsewhere.

:ditto:

[Pseudonym]

Nick, I think those examples belong in the Nutrition forum. To put them anywhere else means we'd have nutrition information in two places.

Here's a suggestion...

Instead of hiding information in a separate forum, what if we had an optional label that sat under your username to indicate whether you were a natural bodybuilder or not? That means:

- we don't have overlapping forums,

- we still get experts contributing from both sides of the fence,

- we continue to promote natural bodybuilding as the norm, and

- people receiving advice can put replies in a natural/enhanced context

What do you reckon? Although I say so myself, I think it's a damn good idea! :grin:

[shruglife]

Nick, I think those examples belong in the Nutrition forum. To put them anywhere else means we'd have nutrition information in two places.

Here's a suggestion...

Instead of hiding information in a separate forum, what if we had an optional label that sat under your username to indicate whether you were a natural bodybuilder or not? That means:

- we don't have overlapping forums,

- we still get experts contributing from both sides of the fence,

- we continue to promote natural bodybuilding as the norm, and

- people receiving advice can put replies in a natural/enhanced context

What do you reckon? Although I say so myself, I think it's a damn good idea! :grin:

AWESOME IDEA PSEU :clap:

[Darwinstef]

Works for me

[nicksmith3]

Nick, I think those examples belong in the Nutrition forum. To put them anywhere else means we'd have nutrition information in two places.

Here's a suggestion...

Instead of hiding information in a separate forum, what if we had an optional label that sat under your username to indicate whether you were a natural bodybuilder or not? That means:

- we don't have overlapping forums,

- we still get experts contributing from both sides of the fence,

- we continue to promote natural bodybuilding as the norm, and

- people receiving advice can put replies in a natural/enhanced context

What do you reckon? Although I say so myself, I think it's a damn good idea! :grin:

It's an idea...

My concern would be for a newb to post a question, followed by answers from both sides of the fence, and then ending with an argument/dissagreement between the two posters when all the newb wanted was a simple answer. Not to start a debate.

That part sounds like a headache to me.

[startinfromscratch]

Nick, I think those examples belong in the Nutrition forum. To put them anywhere else means we'd have nutrition information in two places.

Here's a suggestion...

Instead of hiding information in a separate forum, what if we had an optional label that sat under your username to indicate whether you were a natural bodybuilder or not? That means:

- we don't have overlapping forums,

- we still get experts contributing from both sides of the fence,

- we continue to promote natural bodybuilding as the norm, and

- people receiving advice can put replies in a natural/enhanced context

What do you reckon? Although I say so myself, I think it's a damn good idea! :grin:

AWESOME idea psuedonym, id just like to throw a hypothetical scenario at you - with that in place, what happens if someone who is natural wishes to cross over without announcing it? or for arguments sake, could have crossed over already - there are alot of good reasons why people who are using aas dont announce it:

what would they have to do? they wouldnt be able to give out valuble 'aas' knowledge without publicising their use??

[nicksmith3]

Nick, I think those examples belong in the Nutrition forum. To put them anywhere else means we'd have nutrition information in two places.

Here's a suggestion...

Instead of hiding information in a separate forum, what if we had an optional label that sat under your username to indicate whether you were a natural bodybuilder or not? That means:

- we don't have overlapping forums,

- we still get experts contributing from both sides of the fence,

- we continue to promote natural bodybuilding as the norm, and

- people receiving advice can put replies in a natural/enhanced context

What do you reckon? Although I say so myself, I think it's a damn good idea! :grin:

AWESOME idea psuedonym, id just like to throw a hypothetical scenario at you - with that in place, what happens if someone who is natural wishes to cross over without announcing it? or for arguments sake, could have crossed over already - there are alot of good reasons why people who are using aas dont announce it:

what would they have to do? they wouldnt be able to give out valuble 'aas' knowledge without publicising their use??

That's why he states 'an optional label'

I see where your coming from, but it is what it is. If people prefer it that way than so be it, but if you decide your going to stay drug free for life then that is the personal decision of that particular.

[startinfromscratch]

ah tru, missed the 'optional' bit

as you were 8)

[chickenman]

personally i dont think having the extra natural section is needed.

im only new on here so maybe a bit nieve but when im searching through threads and diarys i dont read one persons opinion or workout plan and start using it...

i would assume that like most people on here when looking for advice i look at heaps of differing opinions and what heaps of people are doing and take bits and peices from all over the place that will suit my needs and what i want.

this includes natural and not natural pages and opinions.

i might like someones ideas on diet that might be a natural bber but then on the next page someone who isnt natural might have a great idea on a chest workout for example...

therefore having seperate pages i feel is not needed because it all falls under the wider umbrella of bodybuilding and wether your natural or not you can still pick up ideas from both parties!!! the issue for me when im looking through threads isnt if someone is natural or not but it is what can i use from his/her ideas that will benefit me.

.it appears to me that nicksmith is implyng that just because your a natural bber or new to the sport that you should only listen to the natural bber because any one who isnt natural has a workout and diet plan that isnt relavant to you training at all!!!