Protein - Your Daily Requirement

[Bazza]

Heres something I found whilst filling in my food sheet. Others will no doubt have different opinions what their daily requirement of protein is per body weight, and also what does and doesn't work for them. Whatever works for you I say. It none the less is interesting if you are a newbie and trying to get a handle on what your 'recommended' daily protein requirement is:

How much protein should I take?

Unfortunately, there is no exact answer to this question. There are a two different formulas that are commonly used:

To ensure that the body is in a positive muscle building state, in other words, that it is burning fat--not muscle, you should ingest at least .9 grams of protein per lean pound of body weight.

For example, a 200 lb. man with 12% bodyfat requires 158 grams of protein daily.

200 X .12 = 24 lbs

200 - 24 = 176 lbs

176 X .9 = 158 gms

The latest study from the International Journal of Sports Nutrition says that people involved in strength training should get 1.6 - 1.7 grams protein per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of bodyweight per day. That is .7 grams per pound. Therefore, a 200 lb man (200 * .7) would need 140 grams of protein. Slightly less than the first formula.

As an estimate we figure that you should consume between .7 - .9 grams of protein per pound of body weight. These number vary based on the amount of body fat you have. Women have higher body fat than men, so they should be on the lower end of the scale. Here are some examples:

150 pounds = 105 - 135 grams of protein a day

160 pounds = 112 - 144 grams of protein a day

170 pounds = 119 - 153 grams of protein a day

180 pounds = 126 - 162 grams of protein a day

190 pounds = 133 - 171 grams of protein a day

200 pounds = 140 - 180 grams of protein a day

220 pounds = 154 - 198 grams of protein a day

240 pounds = 168 - 216 grams of protein a day

260 pounds = 182 - 234 grams of protein a day

[samoan_muscle]

Wow - those suggested protein intakes would be a really low protein day for me. I try to ingest a minimum of 500g per day / 6 days a week.

[Specter]

Wow - those suggested protein intakes would be a really low protein day for me. I try to ingest a minimum of 500g per day / 6 days a week.

yeah...and that is based on a number for strentgh training? Seems abit out of whack?

[Bazza]

Yup..does seem a bit on the conservative side...just did my food sheet for the day and I'm at just under 400g....

[steak]

Can"t the body only process a certain amount per sitting?

Wouldn't any extra get stored as fat?

[rose]

I found the studies I read were a good starting point, to establish a baseline for figuring out your own needs. But as suggested, you can't rely on studies as a one-size-fits-all model.

[Bazza]

From Steak

Can"t the body only process a certain amount per sitting? Wouldn't any extra get stored as fat?

I always thought that extra protein was just excreted. But having a surf around also found this:

What happens to the protein:

It is broken down into building blocks known as peptides.

Then, it is further broken down and it becomes amino acids.

The amino acids are absorbed through the small intestine's lining and enter the blood stream.

From here, some of the amino acids build the body's protein stores.

Excess amino acids are converted to fats and sugars and follow the paths described above.

This is such a simple concept, but many people still believe that consuming lots and lots of protein will put muscle on their bones. Don't be fooled by this notion! Even excess protein turns to fat.

Here is a picturesque illustration of the real cause of weight gain. Eating too much food! Dietary fat is obviously the substance most often stored as fat in the ends, but no matter what you eat, your body takes whatever it can't use and sends it to fat cells. If you don't burn it off or expel it, it hangs around in your fat cells, no matter what it consists of.

Steak ...good point. Does anybody else have another view/proof?

[samoan_muscle]

Can"t the body only process a certain amount per sitting?

Wouldn't any extra get stored as fat?

Of course...

Protein = Calories

excess protein = excess calories

Put simply, excess calories can get stored as fat regardless of whether they protein, carb or fat cals.

Excess vitamins / minerals are simply excreted

[steak]

sooo at 118kg and putting 2grs per kilo thats only 236grs or protein needed. Man thats only 5 tins of tuna a day!

[Specter]

ok...is this for strength training only?

[steak]

for a newbie gainer...yes... mass/muscle building. Is too much emphesis put on protein?

I'll tell you this though...for the last 2 days I've dropped the protien to 50g, 7 times a day and last nite I woke at 3am..STARVING! Dont get me wrong...I was putting in 500+gr a day wot with steak at breakie along with 12 egg/w and then usual doase of carbs..but is it really needed :?

[musclenz]

To sustain life you need about 36g of protein per 100lbs. BBers need shit loads more than that, up around where SM is at 450-500g ed depending on bdy weight. Increasing your protein intake almost always results in greater muscularity. I got to know a top Amatuer BBer in the US & he would just keep upping his protein going into a comp. If it was stored as fat then he would not do this. Ok he used a lot of fat burners & gear but largely he replaced carbs with protein & kept calories high. Apparently then the hormonal system also gets involved, switching over from fat storing to a fat burning mode through the release of the hormone glucagon. This fat burning hormone released in response to a greater protein/carbohydrate ratio in your diet. You could simply lower carbohydrates, but you'd lose a lot of muscle. A lot of trainers advocate doubling your protein intake over a few days to gauge the results. Can get great immediate gains & fuller & harder muscle mass. Anyone tried this???

[Optimass]

To sustain life you need about 36g of protein per 100lbs. BBers need shit loads more than that, up around where SM is at 450-500g ed depending on bdy weight. Increasing your protein intake almost always results in greater muscularity. I got to know a top Amatuer BBer in the US & he would just keep upping his protein going into a comp. If it was stored as fat then he would not do this. Ok he used a lot of fat burners & gear but largely he replaced carbs with protein & kept calories high. Apparently then the hormonal system also gets involved, switching over from fat storing to a fat burning mode through the release of the hormone glucagon. This fat burning hormone released in response to a greater protein/carbohydrate ratio in your diet. You could simply lower carbohydrates, but you'd lose a lot of muscle. A lot of trainers advocate doubling your protein intake over a few days to gauge the results. Can get great immediate gains & fuller & harder muscle mass. Anyone tried this???

All in the right context IMO - if he was on the gear - no doubt he was going to process more protein (Aminos) in the same amount of time. = more muscularity. But for the average natty this isn't going to happen at the same rate - in this genre you have to come back to the old formula ... calories in vs calories out. but also note that protein is a last resort energy source for the body behind Carbs - Fat / the process of converting proteins into energy is much harder on the system than converting excess carbs(glucose) and much the same can be said for converting proteins. Takes longer and therefore some wouldn't make it through the process and would exit the body ... the amounts would be individually based.

[Optimass]

for the last 2 days I've dropped the protien to 50g, 7 times a day and last nite I woke at 3am..STARVING!

Hunger = drop in glucose (sugar/carbs) not drop in protein.

[Optimass]

ok...is this for strength training only?

not ness - depends on w/out intensity etc -- i.e triathletes should keep a similar amount of clean protein in diet. Body undergoes similar stress and needs protein to recover muscle -- they also need a good steady source of carbs too obviously. Essentially the body works the same - the main diff however is that a body builder is growing which over time requires more base calories to maintain.

[Bazza]

I find it an interesting one to debate, as surely it would depend on what stage you are in in your building/cutting cycle, as its overly simplistic to say; " You weight "x" therefore your daily protein requirement is "Y" " - Surely if you are in a compound building faze and you are hitting the weights hard in an attempt to gain mass, then the muscle fibres themselves will scream out " give me more of that " in order to repair themselves and add mass.

Again...if you are in a cutting faze, adding more protein calories as opposed to carb and fat calories means that the bodies muscular requirements are still being met, albeit having a bunch less energy now.

[musclenz]

To sustain life you need about 36g of protein per 100lbs. BBers need shit loads more than that, up around where SM is at 450-500g ed depending on bdy weight. Increasing your protein intake almost always results in greater muscularity. I got to know a top Amatuer BBer in the US & he would just keep upping his protein going into a comp. If it was stored as fat then he would not do this. Ok he used a lot of fat burners & gear but largely he replaced carbs with protein & kept calories high. Apparently then the hormonal system also gets involved, switching over from fat storing to a fat burning mode through the release of the hormone glucagon. This fat burning hormone released in response to a greater protein/carbohydrate ratio in your diet. You could simply lower carbohydrates, but you'd lose a lot of muscle. A lot of trainers advocate doubling your protein intake over a few days to gauge the results. Can get great immediate gains & fuller & harder muscle mass. Anyone tried this???

All in the right context IMO - if he was on the gear - no doubt he was going to process more protein (Aminos) in the same amount of time. = more muscularity. But for the average natty this isn't going to happen at the same rate - in this genre you have to come back to the old formula ... calories in vs calories out. but also note that protein is a last resort energy source for the body behind Carbs - Fat / the process of converting proteins into energy is much harder on the system than converting excess carbs(glucose) and much the same can be said for converting proteins. Takes longer and therefore some wouldn't make it through the process and would exit the body ... the amounts would be individually based.

Good reply as ususal Opti. I think you made one error in your text as proteins waas used twice instead of fats. I believe that there are differing opinions as to whether the body uses fats or proteins first after carbs for energy but it definately helps to have a high protein source in your diet because the body has to use a lot of energy to convert protein into fat, hense my buddies theory of using excess proteins in a pre contest diet. It has to firstly convert to Aminos, whereas fat can be used as an immediate energy source. Is that right? Also agree in an everyday situation its about cals in vs cals burned but BBers are not everyday athletes. They need more protein for muscle repair & its unlikely that excesses will be stored as fat but in actual can speed up the metabolism.

[Optimass]

I believe that there are differing opinions as to whether the body uses fats or proteins first after carbs for energy

It has to firstly convert to Aminos, whereas fat can be used as an immediate energy source. Is that right? .

Also agree in an everyday situation its about cals in vs cals burned but BBers are not everyday athletes. They need more protein for muscle repair & its unlikely that excesses will be stored as fat but in actual can speed up the metabolism.

Either way the body must use fat as a dual ingredient with carbs and/or proteins to provide energy. So I would suggest carbs then protein but always fats .... if you get my meaning.

heres a link from getbig that has the most comprehensive low down on aminos which touches on energy capability but I think the key message is bio-availability - what is useable based on external conditions. - http://www.getbig.com/articles/protein.htm

i have had many a deep conversation with lecturers and other professionals in support of increased needs but they rest on the bio-availabilty and other factor limitations like gender influence, age, hormone etc etc which is far more logical and is more widely accepted as a result... I in effect contradict my self in how I apply 2.2g+ protein in my own plans when all I have been conditioned to, from a collective knowledge point of view, tells me I'm not going to benefit from the excess.

(Except at the moment I would say as I'm currently in ketosis, extra protein is definately a requirement - but my body can still only process a certain amount of pretein into usable aminos and aTP etc. Where as because I'm burning more fat as a result I'm producing more ketones = more energy for brain and heart) -

There will always be a question mark around it IMO. Supplement companies are only ever going to perform bias case studies, or interpret existing case study and spend money on marketing hype to promote their best interests. Where as scientifically body builders are not mainstream and represent a small population, so investment in understanding the impact on us is never going to be a high priority.

There is probably enough experience and collective information on this forum to produce a pretty tangible case on a lot of topics but the method of collecting information would be a challenge.

(Apologies Android for the gratuatis generalised use of the word proteins :pfft: )

I think you made one error in your text as proteins waas used twice instead of fats.

ketone blipage :grin:

[Optimass]

Have to say that nutrition is probably the best discussion topic as a result of all the contradicting opinions - it's one of those final frontier things in my opinion ... some would think we have learned all we can and then "bang" someone challenges reasoning and a paradigm shift occurs ....

If you are getting into personal training and you don't know enough about it - invest some time in growming your knowledge ....

you can give someone a shit program with excellent nutrition advice and get a great result ... but you could write a fantastic program and never relise its potential benefit on your client if they can't eat right.

off the topic i know ...